Maniac1 - OBC Babylon Space Race

I decided to wait for Charis to return. I will play one way or another once he is back. I do hope that Maniac returns to us soon.
 
Woo, that was a good vacation!

:jump:

The grandparents and grandkids had a wonderful time with each other, and they did FAR better in the car travelling than I did as a young lad!

I see this one hasn't gone anywhere :P I would have said to skip for sure except for one thing - it's clear from Todd's post that he has played most (all?) of the turn and the difficulty is in posting it. I'll continue to wait til he can post something go/no-go soon since there's plenty of stuff to catch up on. But upon his return this puppy needs to be reigned in, big time.

Happy New Year all :hammer:
Charis
 
Maniac 1 – OBC

450AD (0) Picking up a turn after the game has sat for a couple of weeks is not easy. But reading through the notes, it appears that we want to bring in the Incans against the Zulus. Fight a defensive war to absorb their masses. Trim the edges to allow the Incans and Mongols some more lands.

Sign up Incans for silks and 11gpt.

MM some cities. Swap Ta-Tu to a worker for skimming.

Set science @ 30% on printing press. Due in 12 turns.

The Zulus and Incans are up banking and metal on us. The Mongols are up banking. We are up education on Portugal.

The Zulus have horses in the New York radius. Unroaded according to our last map. Well, let the killing begin.

5/5 AC kills MDI
5/5 AC kills MDI
5/5 AC kills MDI
5/5 AC kills MDI
5/5 AC kills LB
5/5 Bowman kills LB
5/5 LB kills LB
5/5 AC kills last LB and retreats back to safety.

IT Incans want to renew our Ivory for 5gpt. I talk him up to 6 gpt.

We lose a musket in forest covered by a bucket to a MDI.

460AD (1) Babylon completes Copernicus and swaps to worker for skimming.
Ta-Tu worker to knight.
Kazan duct to university
Almar knight to knight

Attacks:
4/4 Knight dies to musket.
5/5 AC dies to MDI
5/5 AC kills MDI
4/4 knight kills MDI
4/4 knight kills MDI
4/4 knight kills MDI and promotes
4/4 knight kills MDI
4/4 knight kills ¼ musket
5/6 AC kills LB
4/4 knight kills LB
3/5 AC retreats to LB
3/5 AC kills LB


470AD (2) Babylon worker to knight.

Attacks:
Bucket hits musket
4/4 knight kills musket and promotes
4/5 knight retreats to LB doing no damage????
4/6 AC kills LB
4/4 knight kills LB
4/4 knight kills LB

Incans give us 7gpt for spices.

480AD (3) 5/5 AC retreats to MDI
5/5 LB kills MDI
4/4 knight kills musket
4/4 knight retreats to MDI doing 1 damage
5/5 AC dies to same steroid-enhanced MDI
5/5 AC finally kills it.

I think that is it for the major Zulu offensive.

IT 8 more Zulu units come to say hello.

490AD (4) Trebucket hits musket
5/5 knight kills 2/3 musket
5/5 knight kills MDI
6/6 AC kills LB
¾ knight retreats to musket, doing 2 hp
5/5 LB kills 5/5 MDI
¾ knight kills 2/4 musket
5/5 AC kills MDI
5/5 AC redlines to a MDI, but kills it and promotes.
6/6 AC kills LB.

IT Ollan’s borders expand versus Isand, giving us a full 21 tiles. Cheap culture buildings sure are nice.
No Zulus in our territory, but 8 more move around on the edges.

500AD (5) Healing turn. Buy a Mongol worker for 135 gold. Sell wines to the Mongols for 3 gpt. Increase science to 50% to get PP in 3. Still make 44gpt.

510AD (6) trebucket hits 5/5 musket.
4/4 knight retreats doing 2 damage
4/4 knight kills 2/5 musket
5/5 knight kills MDI
5/5 knight kills MDI and WE GET OUR FIRST LEADER, AGUM!!!! Can you say knight army???
5/5 AC kills LB

IT an exposed 5/5AC kills an attacking MDI, then dies to another.

520AD (7) Babylon university to knight. Ta Tu knight to knight. Adjust slider for PP in 1.

4/4 Knight kills LB
4/5 AC kills LB and promotes
¾ knight kills LB
13HP army kills musket
5/5 AC kills MDI

IT Renew our horses and Iron to the Mongols for Gems.

530AD (8) Almar knight to courthouse. Babylon switches to the Epic, due in 9.

PP 55 gold to the Incans for banking. PP, banking, and 30 gold to the Mongols for metal.

The Zulus have both Physics and Mil Trad

Research @ 50% on Democracy, due in 9.

IT Sell furs to the Incans for 9gpt. INCANS AND ZULU SIGN PEACE

540AD (9) Olla bucket to knight. Ta-Tu pike to worker (skim).

Sign the Incans back up against the Zulus. Form an embassy with the Mongols. It costs us a lux and 19 gpt to sign them in against the Zulus. I pass for now.

IT Mongols and Incans finally sign peace!

550AD (10) A stack of 20 units, including a knight army descends upon Harran! Good luck, Charis! Use this force wisely. :hammer:


Charging Charis Time!
 
One thing that I was probably :smoke: about was my last tech choice. We should go all out to Nationalism. The Zulus have only to hook up horses to have cavs. And then we will be in trouble. I would push hard to raze a couple of Zulu towns to open up our own source of salt via colony. That should be manageable in Charis' turn, assuming no cavs.

Lets pray the Zulu's continue their :smoke: and don't hook up their horses.
 
General Charis 'the Charger' Murabi was called forth to lead the nation
in battle against a fierce and aggressive foe, the Zulus. At first glance the
general mutters "their saltpeter is still connected? Zimbabwe still stands?
They could access horses?" He takes a closer look at our situation, after the
nice campaign by Ridgelake. We've seen just a small dent in the 'power' of the
Zulu, but at least have stopped the bleeding the other civs were seeing.
Our culture is tops. Sadly, we're second in land area despite being 6CC.
Sadly for other neighbors we're strong to all except weak to Zulu, and we're
spending out the wazoo for our high unit count. We're just seven turns from
Democracy and we could use that! Actually we're just 4 turns away with higher sci.

I see our main army is at Harran and will likely sack it next turn. They have saltpeter
out the wazoo, and just one horse - unhooked outside New York.

[0] 550 - A little shield reconfiguring to get an item or two done a turn early.
Hmm, there's movement left. Attacks left actually, at Harran. We continue the
attack. We lose an elite knight (ouch, was leader fishing) but a followup fish
pays off with the great leader Sumabaum. Too bad we can't support a second army :P
Nor can we use it for a FP. Letting the old army die and replacing with Cav would
be one idea, otherwise a Small Wonder rush like CIA or Mil Academy. At 400 shields
and one tech away, that's not a bad choice at all. One more knight and
Harran is razed. IBT We renew RoP with Portugal to keep them polite.
A Zulu MDI dies vs our AC.

[1] 560 - Kazan starts bank. In the open outside Ugarit we hit 2 LB, 3 MDI.
The Army hits Ugarit and is shocked to see it had but 2 defenders. Down it goes,
into ashes, netting seven slave workers and two trebs!? Hmmm, that's an opportunity
for a temporary saltpeter colony. We hit two more open MDI.

IBT One Knight sent as a decoy to protect weaker exposed troops had gone to a
mountain. Two MDI's died before killing it, and no other attacks mid-turn.

[2] 570 - Our slow moving forces head to Hattusha for some trimming, our army
heads to a rax to heal, and our fast forces gather on a hill outside Isha.

IBT Our worst fear. Zulu cav appears. They've hooked up the horses. That's gotta
stop 8-\

[3] 580 - LB beats lil Musket, and a classic UU battle, Bowman vs Impi goes down to
both red, then we win and the city is razed. A knight kills the lone cav.
IBT LB beats our knight. Democracy comes in and I revolt immediately, for 1.5 turns.

[4] 590 - We lose a Knight but Isadhwala falls.
IBT Vilcas is founded by Incans in one of the gaps.

[5] 600 - We're now a Democracy. For the worker benefit and the reduced unit cost and
better research power, it's our must-do govt. The downside of course is increased
war-weariness, which we don't welcome at this point. The General is looking now to
hit harder faster which means... Zimbabwe! (Via Hlobane) We're researching Physics
now, btw. That will help us move toward Rifle, and if for some reason we really pound
Zulus it will open up two more techs to sue. However I would go after Mil Tradition
next or buy/trade it, since our saltpeter supply may be limited.

IBT Ow that cav reaches far into our territory to kill an elite AC.

[6] 610 - We cut down that cav and two MDI and get some units in range of Hlobane.
IBT Cav out of fog kills a backrow healing bowman.

[7] 620 - Crud. The ingrateful Incans have sent a settler right next to our saltpeter
colony and it should disappear next turn. 8-\ Can we trade for MT? The Mongols have
it and lack Democracy! Same for the Incas, except the Mongols have Physics too.
They'll give us all three for Democracy, so we do it. All cities but Babylon swap
to cav. The upgrade of Knight to cav is only 30g, so all available knights head
to a rax. IBT The settler steps forward, so we'll have one more round of salt.

[8] 630 - Army attacks Hlobane killing two, but is lookin' kinda hurt. Cavs up.
IBT - Nada??? No counter attacks?! Nice. The Inca settler moves *BACK* and didn't
settle yet again. We lose an AC but raze Hlobane, which was settled smack on TOP of
saltpeter. We can afford a Zulu slave to colonize it for now.

I was going to have Sumabaum rush the Mil Academy now, but it's close enough to
next turn to let leader decide. In the meantime our capital can work profitably
on a cavalry (if the plan is to push our army to its death then fill a new one with
cavs. The downside there is that 3 cavs individually are quite nice too.)

IBT - Oh well, the Incans settle next to the salt, and our colony is gone.
A Zulu cav comes out of Zimbabwe and kills an AC.

[9] 640 - movin'
[10] 650 - healin' and movin' and even better, pillagin'
We renew the Ivory sale to Inca, who can now pay 9 gpt.

Notes/thoughts: The longbow in neutral territory is blocking a mongol settler pair.
The cavs around Zimbabwe have pillaged its iron and several tiles. They were
thinking about striking all together when the army has healed and moved to join
them. The new saltpeter colony will be connected in 2 turns. You should almost
certainly move some units surrouning it and the road back home otherwise that
mongol settler pair will found on it and destroy our colony!

IMHO, the key objectives over the next turns are: i) raze Zimbabwe, ii) try to
safeguard the colony if possible, iii) march the army and cav all the way
down to New York and pillage the horses and/or raze the city. That would end
the cav supply semi-permanently. Making peace with the Zulu still in possession
of horses could almost be a death sentence to our allies.
Remember, leader sitting for Mil Academy or if army dies for a new cavalry army.

Maniac1-650AD.jpg


Zimbabwe may not be easy. There are no doubt a min of five muskets, perhaps 7-8
although they seem too gassy for that much. It does hold Leo's and Great Wall,
so it's a very worthy prize to raze. With the army and cavs working together though,
I bet we can take it.

Maniac
Ridgelake
Charis
Matt_G <-- UP
Meldor <-- On deck
Skyfish

Save file 650AD

Good luck,
Charis
 
Fantastic turn, Charging Charis! :hammer:

Keep up the good work, team!
 
Originally posted by Matt_G
Hey guys, sorry about this but I have to drop from this game.
Apologies to all concerned.
Matt

Looks like Meldor is up now. Until we hear from the missing parties, the play order is:

(Maniac)
Ridgelake
Charis
(Matt_G)
Meldor <-- Up Now
Skyfish <-- On Deck


As for the leader, I would use it to rush the Military Academy in Babylon. That will allow army prebuilds for wonders. And I would love for both Newton's and Shakespears to go in Babylon. :)
 
Skyfish, feel free to take this. I have no idea where Meldor is. :(
 
Ok hopefully I can take it today ..but not quite sure yet....
 
IF we have to declare war on a civ a second time for core expansion, we can NOT get alliances and MUST make peace as soon as they'll talk to us after we have reached our objective.

OK I believe this Zulu war is the 2nd one we wage right ?
What do we decide about this rule point :
1- We follow it blindly and must make peace with Zulu ASAP.
2- We just raze Zimbabwe and take peace.
3- We do not bind ourselves by the rulesbook anymore since we are far from "running away" with the game here and if dont hurt the Zulus big time now it could be 'game over'.

What shall we do ?
 
The rule you quoted is regarding if your first war doesn't get you enough cities and you have to go to war again for city capture. We're beyond this and must look at the 'so when CAN you declare war after you have your core' section of the rules.

1) VS a civ that has a city boardering our capital, or is at least closest to our capital and touching boarders with our "core" we may declare war at any time IF it is being done as part of the core expansion. The first time we declare on a particular civ in this way, we may accept alliances from other civs IF we do it on the turn we declare. ROP's may be made IF they are made as a part of the alliance deal (so that the instant the alliance dies they die too). For this first war we may do whatever we want to that civ for 20 turns, afterwhich we must make peace. We should be prepared to take whatever cities we need from a civ in one war if at all possible (its allways been easily possible in my testing). Reason for this change is to allow for a little "pointy stick" research. In a couple of my tests we fell HOPELESSLY behind w/o this.

Note that, on your turn back in 400 AD, the ZULUS declared war on US

Basically I see no restriction in the rules about how much pain we can inflict on a massive bully who thinks he can own the game. Regarding the spirit of the rules, Maniac doesn't want a "slaughter everyone then milk-a-space-win" approach. We're not near this regime either. We're trying to set up a situation where min 2, better 3, civs are at some kind of parity and no one is a thread to beat us by domination.

In other words...
- Raze Zimbabwe and break their back :rocket:
- Lay down the hammer!! :hammer:

Good luck!
Charis
 
Just a quick note:

Sorry, I forgot to drop a line in this SG thread. I am in the middle of a move from Texas to Oregon. Due to the wild weather they have been having here the household goods won't get here before Friday, and no telling when I will get I-net access from home. I will keep everyone posted though. I am very much looking forward to getting back to playing in tis and the other SGs.
 
Great work, Skyfish! :hammer:

Meldor, great to hear from you as well. Hope the remainder of the move goes well for you. We will keep your spot warm and you can jump right back in when ready.

Ridge
 
I am almost halfway through my turns and in the best Maniac Discussion Tradition, I would like to ask a question to the team.
We have razed Zimbabwe and still have a decent amount of units (7cavs+2 next turn), there is a 2nd salpeter in the open now.
Our Knight army is still alive, everybody is healing before going towards the Zulus horses. The Zulu counters are not deadly, just 1 or 2 cavs here and there.
What shall we do with our Leader ?
 
Is this a military leader? Remember they can't rush wonders!
 
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