I am pretty sure these apply to "Small Medium and Large" city sizes, which are based on population. Each size has its own AI adjustments
March Patch Notes (formerly february)
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I am pretty sure these apply to "Small Medium and Large" city sizes, which are based on population. Each size has its own AI adjustments
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Ah, you would be right. In that case it doesn't seem to be exposed yet.
Me neither... anyway, let's call this whole "confusion" (mostly on my part, btw) over and done together.
PS; Do you know what's happening with the CFC uploading/attachments function? Is it site related, Server?
futurehermit
Deity
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I am much happier with the diplo currently than it was at release. I started one game where everyone on my continent was in a love-fest and I was able to join in and keep the peace playing a tall-empire, peaceful game. In my current game I rushed the Iroquois and then the remaining civs on the continent were guarded with me. When I wiped out Aztec, they started denouncing me and I could not keep the peace with them. Makes sense, they viewed me as a tyrant, which I was.
Much better, imo, because you have to judge the situation and decide what course of action is called for.
That doesn't mean the diplo system is perfect, but it seems improved to me from when I last played a couple months ago at release.
Much better, imo, because you have to judge the situation and decide what course of action is called for.
That doesn't mean the diplo system is perfect, but it seems improved to me from when I last played a couple months ago at release.
No idea.
Kerosene31
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2001
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- 402
Here's what I've noticed on diplomacy since the patch:
It isn't really random anymore, there is a method to the madness. It is far from perfect but I'm noticing some patterns which explain the "Erratic" behavior:
-The AI hates the leader. The moment you start going Charlie Sheen/winning, all previous positive diplomacy is out the window. Now this makes sense, however the AI is far too extreme with it. I was on a continent with 2 other civs and we were all friendly and all about the same level. As soon as I get a tiny score lead, they start conspiring against me.
-If you settle "near" the AI, diplomacy again goes out the window. Again this makes sense partially, but the AI is way, way too sensitive about it. Civs are going to bump borders and having that be a high probability war isn't fun.
-If you are geographically isolated, have a strong military, and are not winning, the AI will love you (at least in my experience). Of course you just can't try to win...
What are others seeing?
It isn't really random anymore, there is a method to the madness. It is far from perfect but I'm noticing some patterns which explain the "Erratic" behavior:
-The AI hates the leader. The moment you start going Charlie Sheen/winning, all previous positive diplomacy is out the window. Now this makes sense, however the AI is far too extreme with it. I was on a continent with 2 other civs and we were all friendly and all about the same level. As soon as I get a tiny score lead, they start conspiring against me.
-If you settle "near" the AI, diplomacy again goes out the window. Again this makes sense partially, but the AI is way, way too sensitive about it. Civs are going to bump borders and having that be a high probability war isn't fun.
-If you are geographically isolated, have a strong military, and are not winning, the AI will love you (at least in my experience). Of course you just can't try to win...
What are others seeing?
All of this was already the case before the patch.
The main thing the patch has done with regards to this that before there would be both an active DOF and Denouncement among surviving AIs whose borders now touched that didn't early on. Now there's a decent chance that the DOF will expire and not be renewed before the Denouncement comes.
The AI also hates you if they settle too close to you.
Basically you either need to have full control of your starting landmasses (other than city states), or have a solid wall of city states to prevent settle problems. And if another landmass is too close, you need full control of it (or a CS occupying it) as well.
The main thing the patch has done with regards to this that before there would be both an active DOF and Denouncement among surviving AIs whose borders now touched that didn't early on. Now there's a decent chance that the DOF will expire and not be renewed before the Denouncement comes.
The AI also hates you if they settle too close to you.
Basically you either need to have full control of your starting landmasses (other than city states), or have a solid wall of city states to prevent settle problems. And if another landmass is too close, you need full control of it (or a CS occupying it) as well.
The same except for the fact that once all available tiles are under Territorial control, growth triggers an indirect "Jealousy" that turns into conspiracy tricks based on both reputation & current behavior of the Human Player.
Makes sense, winning is a gameplay set of conditions aimed by AIs too.
They evaluate how close we are from say, an SS-Launch, and react accordingly.
Now, *That's* pure global Diplomacy.
Mustakrakish
In 'Node' We Trust
@Kerosene31 yes I'm seeing it this way too, but I think it was this way pre-patch too. The difference is that it can change now due to expiring denouncements.
Also...
It doesn't for me, but it's just me I guess. not trying to be nitpicking or something, just, you know... just saying.
Also...
It doesn't for me, but it's just me I guess. not trying to be nitpicking or something, just, you know... just saying.
I (iroquois) was on an island with 3 other civs and it was a love fest, and I got war declared on me by a neighbor Sohghi because my military was tiny. As soon as I had enough troops They tried to declare peace immediately, and everyone else was still friendly. Then I took two of tehir cities, and still everyone stayed friendly. Then when I took 2 more, two of the civs became guarded. Then their capital and I got a denouncement from my next nearest neighbor. Finally after I took their last city (I was out of control) I got the denouncement from 1 of the other 2 neighbors and everyone was guarded. I declared war on Siam (the other closest neighbors and burned one of their cities and since I had overwhelming force they sued for peace ASAP.
Right now they are angry, the other is wary and the french who are as big as me are happy with me.
So far from that perspective the diplo seems to be working great. The only thing is that threatening for open borders, etc... Doesnt ever seem to work even if you have 20 units surrounding their last city.
Right now they are angry, the other is wary and the french who are as big as me are happy with me.
So far from that perspective the diplo seems to be working great. The only thing is that threatening for open borders, etc... Doesnt ever seem to work even if you have 20 units surrounding their last city.
Kerosene31
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2001
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- 402
I like the way the AI acts in theory. They are just way too over the top about it. When the AI drops a city too close to you, what do you do? I go to war and take that territory back. Resources and good spots for cities are critical, and the AI should want them as badly as we do. Geography plays a large part in it, as it should.
I just started an archipelago map and there's another civ on my small island with me. What am I going to do? Go to war. No diplomacy is going to stop me. I need that terrain and don't need to be fighting for resources.
The problem is they are just way too crazy about it. War shouldn't be inevitable just because you got to the open space before them.
Game is much improved. How much? So much that I am playing it after a 3 month hiatus, unheard of in my Civ playing history (been playing since the beginning).
1 UPT is still a train wreck, and is the single greatest impediment to me fully enjoying this game. I watched a city state hold off a huge army because the AI is fundamentally ******ed in using 1UPT. The patch that gives us a 4 unit stack limit is the patch that helps me transition from Civ4 completely.
AI is better but weird still, I am doing an OCC on Emperor and Japan is my enveloping neighbor, and twice in this game has gone from Friendly to Hostile and back to Friendly in an instant and for ZERO apparent reasoning, unless the reason was for me to pee myself, because there would be no way to stop them (no geographical advantage to cripple the 1UPT AI).
UI is getting there, still seems too hard to find useful data, but it's getting there.
Performance - UGH. Fast PC w 4GB and it is just SWAP SWAP SWAP.
LOVE the hexes still, that and the improved city radius are still my favorite changes...
NOT liking advertising your DLC in my game menu. Piss off.
Still need common sense things like a FRIGGIN CLOCK and a choosable music folder (tell me if I missed these things).
Keep it up, it's getting there guys...
1 UPT is still a train wreck, and is the single greatest impediment to me fully enjoying this game. I watched a city state hold off a huge army because the AI is fundamentally ******ed in using 1UPT. The patch that gives us a 4 unit stack limit is the patch that helps me transition from Civ4 completely.
AI is better but weird still, I am doing an OCC on Emperor and Japan is my enveloping neighbor, and twice in this game has gone from Friendly to Hostile and back to Friendly in an instant and for ZERO apparent reasoning, unless the reason was for me to pee myself, because there would be no way to stop them (no geographical advantage to cripple the 1UPT AI).
UI is getting there, still seems too hard to find useful data, but it's getting there.
Performance - UGH. Fast PC w 4GB and it is just SWAP SWAP SWAP.
LOVE the hexes still, that and the improved city radius are still my favorite changes...
NOT liking advertising your DLC in my game menu. Piss off.
Still need common sense things like a FRIGGIN CLOCK and a choosable music folder (tell me if I missed these things).
Keep it up, it's getting there guys...
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Hit shift-tab while in game for a clock. Sortof.
I had just started a quick Tiny Archipelago map yesterday after having won a Polynesia scenario out of curiosity for some Kamy's (whatever the rest of his correct name is!) UA, UTI testing.
We all ended up clustered in a region small enough to enforce some "collaboration" early.
Hiawata to my left, Bismarck up slightly right.
It didn't take long for me to stare at Mohawks and German Longswordsman across our mutual coasts.
Yeah, go to war - first.
mitrydates
Chieftain
It's not the same; why should I turn it on when I don't know what's the time and how long am I playing.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
It's not the same; why should I turn it on when I don't know what's the time and how long am I playing.
The issue with a clock is where to put it? With strategic resources on the top panel, at smaller resolutions it can overlap other text if you add a clock.
I have a solution of sorts... may make a mod one day.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
There are a huge variety of clock mods. All of them add to the top panel, and all of them share the issue I mentioned; On lower resolutions, it causes text overlap.
My wrist watch doesn't interfere with Monitor rendering or resolutions... just play in windowed mode, half transparent taskbar and stare at the damn bottom-right clock & hover above it to be reminded what day it is.
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