[NFP] March Update Video Discussion

[Republic of San Montuoso]

If this is true, then I have to wonder how Portugal will work with the Owls of Minerva. Three total trade route slots when you build Gilded Vault with a Lighthouse in the city?

Well, Kubilai Khan was supposidly broken because he can have 3 Economic Policies slots when there is only 2 available. OoM already broke a civ, it wouldn't be their first one.

It makes me laugh when people say "this ability can't be true because it would broke it if it was played with a very specific aspect of one specific mode that you choose to play if you want".

 

[TreVor_ish]

Hmmm...Am I the only one that think those bushes from Torre de Belem are just upscaled reused ones from Orszaghaz? Etemenanki looks so much better.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Portugal looks really promising, especially when the devs suggested that it can offer a unique naval playstyle. In terms of naval play, Civ VI is already fairly good compared to previous titles in the series. That is a fantastic direction.

For the Zombies, it is good that the devs didn't just use Haitian Zombies - judging from the "dead from the battle" concept, they are more or less similar to the typical "undead", which is very common around the world. The new improvements seems interesting as well.

Game-mechanic-wise, the Zombies are just better Barbarians. On the other hand, I do think they will be better than the Barbarians Gamemode, since it looks like Zombies have some mid-to-late game features in it, instead of clustering everything in the early game.

 

[Myomoto]

To be honest, I'm more looking forward to the patch notes of the April update than I am for any piece of content in this pack

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Talking about the wonders:

Torre de Belém: I think this will be pretty situacional, I usually don't settle cities on other continents unless when I'm playing as Victoria. I wish the game encouraged more the colonization, maybe making the colonization policy cards stronger?

Etemenanki: the marsh petra. Well, it seems weak. How many marshes will you have in your entire empire? Or better: how many marshes will you keep? I'm not used to keep marshes, I always have better things to build there. The bonus for floodplains in the city is another weak thing. Maybe this wonder needs some housing and gold.

I think that's the backwards way to look at it. I think the main bonus is for the floodplains in the city it's built, with the marsh thing as a secondary concern. You build it if you have a big flat floodplain city (you know, the ones that need production).

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Corporations as an economic part of the game in Civ VI are better designed than in Civ IV ( RNG resource dependant, spreading - thank God they are not like religions in Civ VI!) in my opinion, and are one of the best things we got in NFP. The idea of manufacturing products that can be placed in buildings is great, simple, flexible, complements with a base game, and can easily be a base for Economical Victory. The problem with this mode is the Tourism modifier as @Eagle Pursuit mentioned, and the fact it is not in a base game (so its less balanced).
Modes were from the beginning just addons. That's how they were introduced before NFP. So I can't say I am disappointed and I don't like them. I just think do we really need more in potential NFP2?

 

[Josephias]

Hmmm...Am I the only one that think those bushes from Torre de Belem are just upscaled reused ones from Orszaghaz? Etemenanki looks so much better.

Actually, I think both are just versions of the generic "all around the map" bush (as seen clearly in the Orszaghaz pic below - unless all the farmers take as much care of his trees as the Orszhaghaz gardeners, I'd say the model is re-used all around)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Modes were from the beginning just addons. That's how they were introduced before NFP. So I can't say I am disappointed and I don't like them. I just think do we really need more in potential NFP2?

I mean to me it depends. If we get modes like Corporations and Barbarians that enhance gameplay of existing mechanics like luxuries and barbarians yes.
A "Reformation and State Religions" game mode that reworks religions and religious units are one thing I could see them implement.

If we get modes like Zombies and Apocalypse that bring in units and content that seems out of place and crazy like an Alien Invasion, then not really.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Talking about the wonders:

Torre de Belém: I think this will be pretty situacional, I usually don't settle cities on other continents unless when I'm playing as Victoria. I wish the game encouraged more the colonization, maybe making the colonization policy cards stronger?

But this is an additional and less important meme-ish part of this Wonder. The main part is +2 gold for every luxury resource at the destination what makes Torre de Belem a reverse Great Zimbabwe which is literally Great as it comes to gold generation. And you don't even need a cattle adjacent title to build it. I think this is a very good wonder.

 

[Equilin]

Back in Civ5, Portugal UI was looked down on because you have to send worker unit across the world to target city-state location where it will actually be useful. This time they probably took that into account and has the ship UU (the unit you'll have in faraway locations) building it, nice.

 

[Abaxial]

My heart sinks. Zombies? Really? Is that the best they can do?

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Products should also give amenities to the city where they are put.

Good point. I like this idea.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Back in Civ5, Portugal UI was looked down on because you have to send worker unit across the world to target city-state location where it will actually be useful. This time they probably took that into account and has the ship UU (the unit you'll have in faraway locations) building it, nice.

Agreed. Civ5 Feitoria has a unique idea behind it but the implementation is ridiculously dumb that it makes the improvement totally useless.

 

[ManoftheHour333]

I'm sorry, but standard CH+Market+Bank (as Dock+Lighthouse+Shipyard) are seen in Portugal's capitol when showing the building of the Tower of Belem. Should be anything else.

On the other hand, HS is barely seen at the end of the wonder video, and is obscured by the interface, but Temple and Shrine don't look excessively different to normal either (difficult to tell with Temple, though).

Edit: To complete, standard granary, standard monument in the shot. And previous shot with the Nao shows Evora with a standard IZ + Workshop. (just to discard options)

Yeah I'm seeing that. I really have idea then what their UB will end up being then. They might be cheeky and go with an earlier seaport or stock exchange...but that might be a bit underwhelming and late. They *could* go for 2 UIs like the Inca but for Portugal that just seems a lil weird. For Inca it made some sense but I have no idea what they would do for a 2nd improvement beyond the (likely) Feitoria that we saw the UU being able to build. I just feel like they'd go the Rome/Maori route instead with a UI being tied to the UU.

Also...does this mean that Portugal would be great at cultural victories? If they can spam out caravels with press gangs and then each builds at least 2 of those improvements they can reap tons of post-flight tourism. And with more trade routes...that might be interesting

I seriously doubt we'd get ANOTHER temple replacement so I wouldn't worry about the HS getting the other building then. Lol glad to hear their not going in that direction to overlap with Spain.

 

[Unmitigated Gaul]

But this is an additional and less important meme-ish part of this Wonder. The main part is +2 gold for every luxury resource at the destination what makes Torre de Belem a reverse Great Zimbabwe which is literally Great as it comes to gold generation. And you don't even need a cattle adjacent title to build it. I think this is a very good wonder.

Agreed- there are easier metas than getting Great Zimbabwe up and running and centralizing your trade routes there, but between that and some of the other bonuses to foreign trade (policy cards, Kumasi, Chinguetti) you can generate unbelievable yields.

Harbor adjacent wonders that you can build on water are typically easy to find space for.

I think it’s reasonable.

The ziggurat wonder looks awesome, but hard to get. Seems like one that China or Egypt could really explode with, and also one that could make a run of desert flood plain into an absolute monster early game city.

 

[ManoftheHour333]

Portugal looks really promising, especially when the devs suggested that it can offer a unique naval playstyle. In terms of naval play, Civ VI is already fairly good compared to previous titles in the series. That is a fantastic direction.

Um...I wouldn't say that Civ VI has the best naval play...even on small continents building navies is largely pointless as people settle inland so often. And if I'm on continents there's so little reason to build a navy unless I'm directly trying to start an invasion of another continent.

They've given actual coastal settling some buffs since launch to change that but in the end, when compared to naval play in Civ V, VI lags behind. I was just playing a game with my friend in V and we both noted how fun the naval play was-we miss frigates being so strong! Hopefully they'll keep fixing these things to make navies less of a waste of time. I'm gunning that Portugal will help with making naval play more fun+better though so fingers crossed!!

 

[Revanchist]

They probably had the zombies mode much earlier in the pass and moved it back upon seeing the reaction to apocalypse mode and secret societies. It doesn't look like the mode itself has much content aside from zombies and defenses.

Also, Etemenanki looks busted with the right start conditions. Marshes may be harder to find in clusters, but floodplains are pretty easy to get and +1 science AND production for EACH floodplain can be insane given that you are in the ancient era. That science is a lot more impactful for rushing other technologies and combined with lady of the reeds and marshes you could potentially have +2 science +3 production and +3 food marshes

 

[BD123]

Glad Portugal is in but also bracing myself for the letdown of what they consider a "unique naval strategy" being a boring simple buff when there exists a plethora of interesting ideas. Though the Nau building the Fetoria gives me some hope

The wonders I like, I'm surprised there's so many disappointed in these particular wonders. They're much better and more "wonderous" than the Biosphere they released back with... Babylon? It's still a bit odd that there's no Notre Dame or Chatres. And on the topic of cathedrals, I can't believe we still never had the Duomo (Florence) or Sagrada Familia in yet.

And zombies... well. That's a thing I suppose...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Yeah I'm seeing that. I really have idea then what their UB will end up being then. They might be cheeky and go with an earlier seaport or stock exchange...but that might be a bit underwhelming and late. They *could* go for 2 UIs like the Inca but for Portugal that just seems a lil weird. For Inca it made some sense but I have no idea what they would do for a 2nd improvement beyond the (likely) Feitoria that we saw the UU being able to build. I just feel like they'd go the Rome/Maori route instead with a UI being tied to the UU.

I was thinking earlier a Padrão as another UI could work, but that would make more sense for a Nau unique improvement, while the feitoria would go to the builder instead. I can't think of another unique improvement that could be built by a builder in possible Portuguese territory.

I seriously doubt we'd get ANOTHER temple replacement so I wouldn't worry about the HS getting the other building then. Lol glad to hear their not going in that direction to overlap with Spain.

They said they would focus on maritime exploration and trade so I'd be surprised if they got any religious bonuses.

 

[ManoftheHour333]

Good analysis, but I wonder: the clips in the FRX videos are made for the video. They have no incentive to play an extremely goodgamewith them. Most importantly, I think they create amap in the worldbuilder to control everything, so no gaining Great People nor necessarily building wonders. Moreover, they often use those videos to tease us in the future LUA and CUA. We deduce the babylonian 100% eurekas or the vietnamese "districts on features" from the updates videos. There always had one or more hints about what the abilities are, and I think it might be one. I'm not sure FRX comm department would go through the hassle of playing a complete game until the Renaissance Era just for some extracts, while the worldbuilder tool is way more useful for that.

Moreover (again), additional trade routes for Portugal or Joao III would perfectly maje sense as a UA. We only have 5 (IIRC) civs/leaders that give additional trade routes: the Cree from pottery, England from settling on other continents, Persia from political philosophy, Mali from golden ages and Phoenicia from the government plaza. There is still room from additional trade routes capacity bonuses and, once again, it would perfectly fit with Portugal.

So I think Portugal being able to have more trade routes isn't that far-fetched and could be an extremely reasonable UA.

I totally agree as Portugal looks like it's getting some kinda crazy trade route bonuses. While it's *possible* to have 14 naturally like your saying, it's not probable given how many "ifs" would go into play. And even then, that's assuming each city has a harbor+lighthouse and I believe I saw one without one. Unless the devs were 100% trying to get us off the trail, they wouldn't inflate that number like that in world builder. I agree that it doesn't look as gamebreaking as "double trade routes" but it looks like they're getting something extra. I also think it would be an extremely fitting UA-especially the one that gives markets AND lighthouses a regardless +1 TR slot. I just hope it's an active/build-up way to gain TR slots-not like Phoenicia's or Mali's ability.

14 slots and almost 900 gpt in the Renaissance is not normal...that's almost Mansa Musa territory imo.