Maniacal
the green Napoleon
Its not that hard to have all the companions survive either.
Mass Effect 3
- Thread starter Maniacal
- Start date
Kal'Reegar and Shiala seem likely candidates for new squadmates (the former, because he's ****ing awesome, and the latter, because of dialogue hints on Illium in ME2), but it's possible for both of them to die (Shiala on Feros, Kal'Reegar on Haestrom). That doesn't necessarily mean anything. BioWare has shown repeatedly that they're perfectly willing to put in massive amounts of content that theoretically might never be used. It's entirely possible to never even recruit Wrex, Garrus (first game, Legion, Grunt, Samara, Thane, and Tali (second game), yet all are fully voiced and some of them even have romance options. That said, I think that it's more likely that we see squadmate(s) that haven't even been hinted at in the previous two games for new recruits. A batarian, for instance. There are rumblings that the next DLC will be an operation in conjunction with VS in batarian space, and that might introduce us to a squadmate from the next game. Feron - who seems directionless in LotSB - could also serve as a replacement for Thane, who seems intent on dying quickly even if he is romancing Femshep.
That said, it is virtually certain at this point that multiple squadmates from the previous game will be available for use, if not all (Thane, Kasumi, and Zaeed being the least likely to still be with you, and Tali, Jack, Garrus, Grunt, Legion, Miri, and Jacob being the most likely to stay). Miri, of course, has plot armor, but it's not impenetrable. We're getting a metric [intercourse]ton of hints from Christina Norman's Twitter and the general comments made on the game by people like Casey Hudson (interviews) and Chris Priestly (forums) that at least some squadmates will return. A recent interview with an unnamed EA PR man with access to an extremely early version of the game has also indicated that squadmates might return to your squad, although people have raised the excellent point that their models might just be placeholders. More to the point, a lack of ME2 squaddies in ME3 would arguably make the second game completely pointless. The entire plot of the game was centered around building the Dirty Dozen.
I think, actually, that the fact that Liara (and VS, of course, but to a lesser degree) is the only plot-invulnerable squadmate in either game means that she'll be integral to the story in a way that transcends being a squaddie. Her role as Shadow Broker makes her ideal for a kind of quest-giver and general coordinator for your actions against the Reapers. You might get a couple-three missions with her as temp-squadmate, like in LotSB, but I doubt you'll get much more than that.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
They don't have to actually be on your squad in order to be useful. Tali survives, she leads the quarian flotilla against the Reapers instead of fighting on the ground; Samara/Morinth are using biotics to guide the rachni; Wrex becomes krogan emperor and has Grunt as some squad leader; Legion is Shepard's ambassador to the true geth; etc. They could all be fulfilling Liara-esque rolls, and that seems most likely to me (unless it's been explicitly confirmed otherwise) than BioWare having to create almost a separate game for the amount of scenarios for possible surviving ME2 squadmates.
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
I still don't think Tali will be a good leader. She can help convince the Quarrians to join but she won't be leading them. Also who is Shiala?
That said, I expect that Tali, Garrus, Grunt, Miranda, Jacob and various Normandy crew members (provided they survived) and Joker and EDI will return.
The others may or may not be squadmates but hopefully will show up somewhere and be helpful. Depending on how you treated them in ME2 of course.
That said, I expect that Tali, Garrus, Grunt, Miranda, Jacob and various Normandy crew members (provided they survived) and Joker and EDI will return.
The others may or may not be squadmates but hopefully will show up somewhere and be helpful. Depending on how you treated them in ME2 of course.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
She's basically the princess of the quarian people, given that her father was the most respected member of the admiralty board. She might not have the firmness of Shepard or Garrus but she's probably the most prestigious living quarian.
That asari that was cloned by the Thorian. She makes a minor reappearance in ME2 as a green asari on Illium that needed Shepard to petition the insurance company to provide more medical support for the Ferosians still sick by the Thorian spores.
You keep saying "almost a separate game" when it really, really isn't. The way you're using it, Mass Effect 2 was two entirely separate games, due to the number of squad members you could choose to not recruit, and the fact that every single loyalty mission was technically optional. That's a massive amount of content that it's entirely possible to avoid.
Neither did the late Shadow Broker.
Mhm. While there, she makes two interesting comments: one about how her biotic abilities are "unstable" - "unstable" in a "more powerful" way, possibly? - and one about how "maybe sometime, when I'm not organizing the colony, and you're not...doing whatever you do...(possibility for a kiss if your Shep has no romantic attachments yet)"
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
Doesn't make her a leader. She has little experience leading anything beyond a small squad (and even then I'm not sure if she was really that in charge). Sure her father was the most respected Admiral of his time, but the Quarrians are not a hereditary society. This merely serves to give her a huge boost (unless you screwed it up for her) in her chance to convince the admiralty to help Shepherd.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
Loyalty missions are sidequests. It's typical of WRPGs to have tons of sidequests. However, unless you think ME3 is going to have something like 20 crewmates (since there has to be enough to constitute a full crew minus the two minimum survivors from ME2), the likely scenario seems to me that there'll be a brand new roster in ME3 and the ME2 characters will aid Shepard in some other way, like Wrex and Liara.
Pay closer attention to Tali's loyalty mission. Her trial was a political show for the Admiralty Board's internal factions. The anti-war admirals (vas Qwib Qwib) wanted to convict Tali to show the dangers of renewing the war with the geth, whereas the pro-war admirals (vas Neema) wanted to acquit her to show the necessity of reclaiming the homeworld. Tali only fell into the center of it because of the political power she has as Rael'Zorah's daughter.
Loyalty missions are only sidequests insofar as you don't, strictly speaking, have to do all of them to successfully complete the game. That's kind of the point. They also comprise a near plurality of the amount of cinematics, conversations, and combat in the game. That's unusual; normally for sidequests you'll get some conversations, definitely some combat, usually cookie-cutter areas in which to do it (see: Mass Effect (1)).
You keep saying that you need to have a "full crew" if you get ten squad members killed in the Suicide Mission, but that's emphatically not the case. First, there's nothing saying that you have to have 12 squaddies minimum in the third game, whatsoever. In theory, you could get by with just 2. Of course, we both know that we're going to get new squaddies in the third game, but a new ten seems pretty over-the-top. What makes your "twenty" number any more reasonable than a "two", "six", or "fourteen"? Absolutely nothing. They're all just ass pulls. Second, there's really been no convincing argument to me that they're going to just dump all squadmates from the team for quest-giving purposes and give you an entirely fresh slate. BioWare has repeatedly shown that it's perfectly willing to create an ass ton of content that it is entirely possible to never use, including entire squadmates; why not do that for the third game? Especially when the whole point of the second game was to build that exact team?
LightSpectra
me autem minui
I didn't say there'd be twelve new squad mates. Since there was a grand-total of six in ME1, I'd say that's the minimum of new squad mates for ME3, which means that there will be somewhere in the range of 8 to 24 crewmembers in ME3. Essentially you're telling me that someone who played ME2 very lazily and got most of his crew killed will miss the majority of the dialogue and personal quests in ME3; granted, one has to have badly sucked at ME2 for this to happen, but that means BioWare would have to make a huge portion of the game inaccessible just by how the previous game was played. This is quite different from putting in a ton of optional content. It would be like if someone couldn't play Napoleon: Total War unless they imported a save from Empire where France goes bankrupt. It would be a huge inconvenience to non-hardcore fans, and not a sound business decision.
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
And she was, you know, sending parts of Geth back to the fleet and they had no idea what happened on that ship. None of this indicates her having leadership potential.
Since the third game doesn't have to be built around personal quests at all, losing one or more squad members on the Suicide Mission wouldn't be as crippling in terms of loss of content as you make it out to be.
As to "only hardcore fans will be able to do this", that'd be a fair point, if we knew what the default start for the game will be. We don't know if the default is that everybody survives, everybody dies, or something in between. Nothing is being inherently closed off to everybody but the hardcore fans - that we know yet.
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
Not only is it not that hard to not have all of your crew die, the game encourages you to playthrough a second time so you can fix any mistakes.
I tend to lean in the LightSpectra school of thought sadly. I think Bioware will find a way to make the death of squad members in ME2 not so relevant in ME3.
I already thought the ME1 characters would have a much bigger impact on ME2, even if they weren't the same type of "built from scratch for a mission" type squad, they were still very much loved by the community, and they just became props in ME2.
But yeah, I think there will be an emphasis on new party members mostly for business and feasability reasons. I'm thinking ME2 characters will equal small linear missions in unmemorable settings, at best (aka omg they actually have a mission and not just a bit more dialogue).
Well who knows what will happen? I'm not that optimistic. Let's just say that if there is a good amount of content associated with the old characters, I'll be quite surprised, but I don't think it's entirely impossible either. Most likely though I really think it's what LightSpectra said here:
But BioWare, if you wanna surprise me, go for it!
I already thought the ME1 characters would have a much bigger impact on ME2, even if they weren't the same type of "built from scratch for a mission" type squad, they were still very much loved by the community, and they just became props in ME2.
But yeah, I think there will be an emphasis on new party members mostly for business and feasability reasons. I'm thinking ME2 characters will equal small linear missions in unmemorable settings, at best (aka omg they actually have a mission and not just a bit more dialogue).
Well who knows what will happen? I'm not that optimistic. Let's just say that if there is a good amount of content associated with the old characters, I'll be quite surprised, but I don't think it's entirely impossible either. Most likely though I really think it's what LightSpectra said here:
But BioWare, if you wanna surprise me, go for it!
Relying on the second game to provide a blueprint for how the save file transfer will work in the third game is off the mark. Chuds has repeatedly stated that most of the issues relating to save file content in the second game and their rather limited impact on gameplay were due to the fact that those things needed to be carried on even further into the third game, resulting in a prohibitive number of alternate scenarios. He's said that since there will be no fourth game, the team will be able to do a lot more varied stuff with the save file transfer information in ME3 than they could in ME2. Does that automatically translate to meaningful consequences for gameplay? Not necessarily, but I think it's certainly a strong hint that there will be.
The other 90% is a mix of the game having to be appealing to people who would not have played the previous games mixed with the number of games that have let me down when I set my expectations just a little over average, hehe.
I also find RPGs keep pretending to be really open-ended or with "multiple branches" and just end up being 3 slightly different ways to do exactly the same thing. So whenever I see people making claims that something will be awesome and whatnot, I tend to divide my expectations by 5. Thanks Peter Molyneux.
I also find RPGs keep pretending to be really open-ended or with "multiple branches" and just end up being 3 slightly different ways to do exactly the same thing. So whenever I see people making claims that something will be awesome and whatnot, I tend to divide my expectations by 5. Thanks Peter Molyneux.
Kozmos
Jew Detective
That is what you get for trusting a Frenchman. His Black & White games were actually fun though.
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
He's British afaik. Most of his best games though were with Bullfrog.
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