Math01 - My first SG: OCC Space Race

[Mathias]

@Pentium: I missed your Q last night. Ctrl+Shift+M to hide cities. Ctrl+Shift+N for options on what to hide/not hide. I prefer not to hide territory borders.

@Khan: Yes, the wines are the main reason for playing #1

Screenshot and saves as soon as I upload them...

 

[Mathias]

3000 BC save 4000 BC save for anyone who wants it

 

[Mathias]

4000 BC (0)
Build city, get maps from hut.
Move citizen to Wheat for faster growth.
Building warrior, we'll need MP sooner than usual.
Science queue Writing, Code of Laws, Philosophy, Republic, Literature.
Science at 100%

3950 BC (1)
Irrigate wheat

3750 BC (5)
Road wheat

3600 BC (8)
Warrior >> Worker
Warrior fortified in London (MP)
Worker SW to BG

3550 BC (9)
Road BG

3400 BC (12)
Worker >> Curragh
Worker NW, W to wines
Mine BG

3350 BC (13)
Irrigate wines

3300 BC (14)
AI: Russian scout at southwest border

3250 BC (15)
Russia has 35g +BW +CB -Alphabet (info only, we aren't trading yet)

3200 BC (16)
MM: Irrigation will be done this turn, so move new citizen to wines for 4-turn growth. Governor emphasize food (this won't make a difference anytime soon)

3150 BC (17)
Road wines

3100 BC (18)
Worker E to BG

3050 BC (19)
Curragh >> Curragh
Currach traveling NE along coast
Mine BG

3000 BC (20)
Worker SE from wines to BG
Curragh continues NE
Russia has picked up WC and popped a settler or city from a hut. (We still are not trading yet)

Notes to next player
When our city reaches size 5, we will need lux 10% for one turn before second MP is built. Micromanage science so we don't spend even 1 gold to much for writing. Lux again to 10% at size 6, and probably 20% at size 7. Second curragh should follow south coast. No suicide runs until we have explored all safe passages. I prefer not to trade tech until we know 3 rivals - maximize what we can get with Alphabet. I don't care if we build warriors for exploration or not. They'll cost us gold, but might contact inland rival. I'd like to have a granary before our city is size 8.

About the screenshot
I'm sure we all know that we need to mine and road the BGs first. I drew the lines on the map because I could. The blue-dot grasses: we will only be working one of these at size 12, so we should mine one and irrigate the rest for future use. If any have horses, that'll be the one. Otherwise, it doesn't matter.

The play order is not set. Anyone who wants it, post a 'got it' and go for it.

Please, do comment. I don't want to appear to be dictating the game.

 

[Mach]

I shadowed your turns and they look really good. The only questions I have are about builds. Should we just go curragh --> warrior --> granary? Or should we make a run at the colossus? And do we want to get out a few more workers, just to merge back in later? Hm.

I'd like to make a run at colossus, I think it'll be a big help to us. I got it, and I can play today, but I'll wait for us to determine our builds first.

 

[Mathias]

Curragh > Warrior > Granary was my thought. Roaming barbarians could pose a threat before we finish granary though. I don't think another worker would hurt, but I'm not sure if it is worth the support cost and delayed growth. If we do build another worker, then we should build Curragh > Worker > Warrior as the next mine will be done, and we will have 5 shields when we drop back to size 4.

We will most definitely build the Colossus, and it will trigger our GA. I'd like to have it completed by 1500 BC (turn 60) so we need to start on it around 2150 BC (turn 40)

The more I think about this, the more I am in favor of that third worker. I'd also like at least one extra warrior for advanced warning of barbarians. I propose Curragh > Worker > Warrior > Warrior > Granary > Barb defense as necessary > Colossus

 

[Mach]

I don't think we need keep that third worker for too long. We're behind in our terrain improvements, but I think we'll be caught up by the time we hit size 7, so we can merge a worker back in then.

Hm, a difficult choice. I forgot the colossus will give us our GA. Shouldn't we try to wait until we're in republic to finish it? I think your plan just might do the trick. I would add another curragh in there somewhere, too.

So I think I know what to do now. Curragh --> worker --> warrior --> granary was what I was thinking. How many turns shall I play?

 

[Mathias]

Counting shields for granary, I think we can complete it one turn before we grow to size 7 if we don't build the extra warrior. This will save 10 food and two turns on growth. When we reach size 7, we should be at 11 shields per turn. As long as barbarians don't hit us before that, we'll be fine.

The third worker should first road the BG south of London, so that the second worker (currently west of London) can move directly to the final BG in the southeast. I apologize for dictating, but I am picky about worker efficiency.

Turnsets should be 15 turns each from here on out. If you are uncertain, or just want to check in early, 10 turns will be fine. You can see the turn number on the victory status screen (F8). 3000 BC is turn 20, so Mach, you'll be playing through turn 35 (2350 BC).

 

[Mathias]

Right on, Mach. Funny how I directly answered your question before seeing your post

Remember to check for disorder with each new citizen, and MM science as we are about to discover writing. Let our treasury drop until we either have writing or run out of gold. Hopefully our curraghs will find more AI soon.

 

[Mach]

I apologize for dictating, but I am picky about worker efficiency.

That sounds like the name of the early game to me; it's why I jumped at the chance to play the second set. I love maximizing worker turns.

So I think I played up to your expectations, except for the trades. Khan may get a sense of deja-vu from this...

Preflight (3000BC)
I stare long and hard at the alpha for bw and 34g trade on the table. I decide to do it. We may get behind on tech in the beginning because of this, but our unit support will force us to deficit our research, so we're gonna need cash. This might be controversial...

T1 (2950BC) Worker mines.
(I) zzz

T2 (2900BC) zzz
(I) London curragh --> worker

T3 (2850BC) zzz
(I) London grows

T4 (2800BC) Lux to 10%
(I) London worker --> warrior
Incan scout appears

T5 (2750BC) Lux back to 0%
Alpha to Incans for WC and 10g, it's the best we can get, and they must know the Russians. Another controversial trade, but given the first alpha trade, we gotta do this one.
Worker s to bg.
(I) zzz

T6 (2710BC) Worker mines.
(I) Writing --> CoL
London warrior --> granary

T7 (2670BC) zzz
(I) London grows.

T8 (2630BC) Worker w-n to bg
(I) zzz

T9 (2590BC) South worker mines, north worker roads
(I) zzz

T10 (2550BC) Worker to s bg.
(I) zzz

T11 (2510BC) Worker roads
(I) London grows.

T12 (2470BC) Worker mines
Lux to 10%
(I) zzz

T13 (2430BC) Spot Incan borders
(I) zzz

T14 (2390BC) Worker mines.
(I) London granary --> worker

T15 (2350BC) Worker to nw grass.

That's it, I hope I did good. I'm happy with my worker moves. We got the granary with no waste right before growing to size 7, which is pretty sweet. I set London to worker, for merging purposes; he'll be born next turn. After that worker is done, we can do an archer in 2 turns. Our military advisor says there's barbs about, but I haven't seen one yet. We're burning through the gold I traded for, it should last us into CoL. At some point we can trade writing for techs and more gold for the burn into philo.

I think we can time the colossus build to finish after we're in Republic.

We haven't found anything interesting on the map yet, except for some possible suicide runs. Looks like that southern island was a dead end, oh well.

Teh Save And screenies for lurkers...

 

[Mathias]

You're right, I don't like trading Alphabet off so cheaply. We weren't strapped for cash that early. We could have finished researching Writing first. To prove my point, I played those turns without the trade. The Incan scout never showed up, though. When the first curragh found the Inca, I traded A for BW+M+10g, then traded A for CB+25g. To tell you the truth, I think yours ended up better than this. We have a little bit more gold, we can build archers, and don't need masonry anyway.

We don't need another worker. I suggest two, maybe three archers, then start on Colossus. We won't be able to run max science through to discovery of CoL unless we find someone else to sell Alphabet to, or more likely, clear a barb camp. I expect we will have CoL in 12 to 14 turns, then Philosophy in 11 or 12. Thats about 23 to 26 turns before we have Republic. The Colossus should take about 16 or 17 turns to build, so we have 8 to 10 turns to play before starting on it in order to complete it after we revolt. If we had CB, we could build a temple, but... well, nevermind. We should build archers and hunt down barb camps.

 

[Mach]

Here's what I was figuring with that worker build: he's for population purposes. Build him, wait two turns, then merge him for a cheap population point. If we merge another of our workers, we could be at size 9 in 3 turns, with 2 workers still in the field. (Although we'll only have 8 tiles improved at that point, so we may want to wait a short while later to merge that second worker. Or alternatively, make our 9th citizen a scientist...) I feel like that cheap citizen is worth the 10 shields.

I thought really hard about the alpha trades before I did them. I finally figured they would shave maybe 3 turns off our republic research, and that was the priority. If it wasn't the best move, at least hopefully it's a good enough move.

Here's a silly suggestion: get 2 archers out, then do wealth for a few turns. Should help push our research a bit, and it'll avoid our building anything that will cost us gpt in maintenance. Just to be sure we don't finish colossus too early...

 

[Mathias]

I see your point about the worker, and it is definitely worth it. Note to next player: be sure to put a citizen back on the wines.

Looking again at the current state, I see the mine in the north will be complete in 3 turns, while the mine in the south will be complete in 5. One turn building worker, and those are down to 2 and 4. The new worker can step SE, to build a road which will be complete at the same time as the southern mine. Double up those two workers to mine that tile in 3 turns. In the meantime, the other worker in the northwest will road the tile he is on. When the first worker is done mining, he can step SW to the same tile. The road will be finished on that turn, so they too will double up for a mine before heading for the hills. At this point, London will be 1 turn from size 8 with 10 fully-improved tiles. The two workers in the south can join the city, London will grow to size 10 and pump 15 shields per turn. The Colossus can be built in as little as 13 turns if we put the 11th citizen to work in the hills for 5 turns. We can build one or two curragh before starting Colossus. A few turns of wealth is not silly, it is a very good idea. This is a totally awesome start!

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

The point about the worker is very good. In OCC I've allready gone till size 12. 10food instead of 20 is awesome. That's a second granary! The time wasted is worth, even if the lux is hard to manage.
I dont think we need many archers. Even one can do the thing, Colossus is really a must have.

 

[Mach]

I had to stare at those worker moves for awhile, but I get it, and Mathias you're a wizard. Let's follow your plan.

So we'll be at 15spt in, what, 10 turns? CB is out there for us to trade for, and I'm pretty comfortable trading writing then. So when we hit that 15spt, how about we trade writing for stuff including CB, and then build a 4-turn temple. That would be something like worker --> archer --> archer --> wealth --> temple --> colossus.

 

[Renata]

I have no time to look at anything in detail right now (earliest I can play is Tuesday, I think - busy today, and I have class tomorrow night), but it looks pretty nice. I assume others will play before me, so good luck with the philosophy run, whoever it is.

Renata

 

[Mathias]

The Colossus will not be a problem. We are in great position to trigger our Golden Age as a Republic around 1500 BC.

That is 15 spt after 8 turns. I agree, it will probably be safe to trade Writing at that time. We could even put off trading for a few more turns and use the Colossus for the first 3 turns of the temple. So worker > archer > archer > 3-turn wealth > temple > Colossus

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

I forgot the Colossus gives us the GA... I agree on waiting the Republic. But I would go for 5 2 turns worker builds, that will quickly improve our lands and join London for size 12.
The setup of London is bad actually, it grows in 1 for worker in 2. Change this please.

 

[Mathias]

When London grows, the new citizen will add shields so that we have 10 spt and the worker is complete in one turn. Your suggestion of 5 additional workers is absurd. I know what you are trying to say, but I'd rather be at size 7 for six turns supporting 9 to 10 units than size 6 supporting 10 to 12. In other words, building excess workers reduces our gross income and increases our unit support costs. We simply cannot afford this.

On worker actions, after we road the hills, we should mine the wheat and wines before we mine the hills so we can get GA bonus shield on all tiles. We should be size 12 by the time the mines are finished.

 

[Mach]

Good call on the mines, Mathias.

@Khan: Here's how I was looking at it. Our economy is the most important thing to us right now, since we have to secure the slingshot. Being at size 12 via worker merge would hurt our economy, since we'd have to support those workers, and since the last few citizens would only work 1 gold tiles that would have to go to entertainment anyway. Merging to 12 might mean the colossus would be built a few turns faster, but it would also mean republic a few turns later. Merging to size 10 is a decent compromise; I couldn't find any problems in Mathias' plan for this, it's spot on, so we should just follow that.

Also don't worry about that worker, he will finish next turn, since the new citizen will be placed on a 2 shield tile, giving 10spt, and thus the worker. Remember, growth happens first, new citizens are placed, then shields are tallied.

I think Mathias turned the governor on, and I think we should turn it off, since it's not necessary.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Well we can calculate things, remember that those workers will improve faster the terrain and when they join, all our output will be improved. For a total cost of lets say about 40g and 10 turns production loss we would have had pop 12 plus improved lands.
But I don't mind not doing this if the team is against.