Math02: 100K with limited cities

[Methos]

You're up Obormot.

 

[pindicator]

Obormot, the spanish are calling

 

[Mathias]

Hmm... Obormot was active last night. I hope he hasn't forgotten us! Since it is well past the normal time allotted for a 'got it', I will play now, and post soon after.

 

[Mathias]

850 AD (0)
Madrid - MM for commerce, build worker
Barcelona - move citizen from Valencia's hill
Seville - MM for more commerce
Toledo - MM for food and commerce, build worker
Santiago - MM for food and commerce, build worker
Salamanca - no change
Murcia - no change
Valencia - MM for shields, zero growth

IT: Ottomans declare on Maya
Physics >> Theory of Gravity
Madrid Worker >> Wealth
Toledo Worker >> Wealth
Santiago Worker >> Wealth

860 AD (1)
Sci 80% ToG in 4 with large deficit

IT: Murcia Smith's >> Bank
Valencia Marketplace >> Bank
Korea completes Leo's, beating us by 2 turns

870 AD (2)
Barcelona switched to bank, wasting over 400 shields
oops.. switch Toledo to prebuild for Newton's

IT: Barcelona Bank >> Worker

880 AD (3)
Sci 80%
Santiago switched to Conquistador (forest chop in progress)

IT: Persia offers map trade, we accept
Barcelon Worker >> Barracks
Palace gets bigger. And a strange looking building it is.

890 AD (4)
Madrid switched to Worker

IT: Maya want alliance: No.
ToG >> Magnetism
Madrid Worker >> Conquistador
Ottomans meet Korea (I saw the galley, but forgot to sell the contact)

900 AD (5)
Forests cleared near Madrid
Seville MM'd again for more commerce
Vikings and Persia have Press, so we trade...
Maya: C with Vikings for 26 gpt, 71g, WM
Korea: C with Vikings for 14 gpt, 23g, WM
Persia: C with Korea, Maya, and Ottomans for Silks, 3gpt, 24g
Ottomans: C with Vikings for 20g, WM
Sci 90% Magnetism in 4

IT: Barcelona Barracks >> Knight

910 AD (6)
IT: Madrid Conquistador >> Trebuchet
Santiago Conquistador >> Trebuchet

920 AD (7)
Sci 80%
Seville MM'd, now max commerce

IT: Salamanca Bank >> Harbor

930 AD (8)
Sci 70%

IT: Magnetism >> Metallurgy
Madrid Trebuchet >> Trebuchet
Santiago Trebuchet >> Trebuchet
Murcia Bank >> Barracks

940 AD (9)
Sci 80% Metallurgy in 4

IT: Barcelona Knight >> Wealth as placeholder
Salamanca Harbor >> Wealth as placeholder
Valencia Bank >> Barracks

950 AD (10)


America is really pumping culture, now at more than 62% of our rate. Anything over 52% threatens to delay our 100K victory. We need to address this very soon.

 

[MeteorPunch]

playing now.

EDIT: I can't believe no one wants Newtons in Seville.

 

[MeteorPunch]

umm, ok. there are workers planting forests.
We have way too many workes, 31, but we can use every one of them to build railroads soon.

950

960

970

980
Metallurgy is researched, and we enter the IA!!
Our palace is now even "awesomer."

990

1000
Our Spices and Incense deal from the Ottomans expires.

1010
Spice deal is renewed.

1020
Shakespeares Theatre completes in Seville.

1030

1040
Hittites demand Invention.
Newton's University completes in Toledo.

1050
Steam Power is researched!
We have a coal already hooked up in Valencia.


- We are exporting saltpeter to Korea, and it's our only source!
- I'm building Knights everywhere...but this can be changed.
- We have 15 knights and 10 horsesmen. We can upgrade these to Cavalry and ally Korea vs. America. We should definitely do this before America gets Riflemen!! Cavalry can crush Pikes and Muskets. If we get an MGL here, we can build an army and get Heroic Epic, Military Academy, and Pentagon cultural buildings.
- According to MapStat:
Spain 18,747 209cpt
America 7,593 162cpt

 

[MeteorPunch]

- According to MapStat:
Spain 18,747 209cpt
America 7,593 162cpt

Mapstat is notious (IMO) on being wrong here...According to CAII:

18,747 247 cpt win in 1998AD

 

[pindicator]

playing now.

EDIT: I can't believe no one wants Newtons in Seville.

I never said I didn't want Newton's in Seville either

On the saltpeter deal to korea, I was the one that started that deal. It is past the requisite 20 turns now, so we can cancel it whenever.

I like the idea of crushing Americans. Maybe after the war, we can turn around and raze some Korean towns too. Punishment for Leo's and all.

 

[Methos]

Got it and will try and play tonight, hopefully.

 

[Methos]

Got it and will try and play tonight, hopefully.

Make that tomorrow night.

Any suggestions since we have a day until I play my turnset?

 

[pindicator]

Lots of railroads!!!! After linking the cities, start with Seville, as it has Cop's. I think it would be a good idea to put Newton's at Seville as well, but if we have Sanitation than it's not so big a deal. Toledo should be a good site as well, especially when the hospitals come in.

The sooner we kill of America's culture the better. I would guess our goal is razing about half of their cities before we get out. I don't think we want to completely annihilate them, as we want to keep the AIs somewhat balanced amongst each other. If we do get to war in your turnset Methos, then we probably want an RoP and Alliance vs. America with Korea.

Pump/upgrade those cavalry.

All I can think of.

 

[Mathias]

We should definitely do this before America gets Riflemen!! Cavalry can crush Pikes and Muskets.

America has neither Pike nor Musket, but they do have Crusaders -- 7 of them as of 1030 AD. We can sart the war anytime, really. Knights should not have too much trouble against America's ancient-age military.

Sure, Newton's in Seville would have been nice, but that would have taken another 20+ turns after Shake's was complete. I don't think waiting that much longer would have been worth it.

RE: Forests. OK, so I was trying to max out production and wasn't thinking about how close we were to railroads. Wasted more than a few worker-turns.

 

[MeteorPunch]

America has neither Pike nor Musket, but they do have Crusaders -- 7 of them as of 1030 AD. We can sart the war anytime, really. Knights should not have too much trouble against America's ancient-age military.

Only spears, eh? Let the wars begin then!

Sure, Newton's in Seville would have been nice, but that would have taken another 20+ turns after Shake's was complete. I don't think waiting that much longer would have been worth it.

My strategy is always to build Shakespeare in the city with low corruption, but the highest growth potential. Example: a city near the capital with nothing but grassland. Your idea is to build it in the city with least corruption, but with high growth potential, is nearly the same. My main point is that I think there is some stacking benefits to building the science wonders in the same city, making a super-science city. This may not be the case, though. It might actually be better to have it in two cities.

RE: Forests. OK, so I was trying to max out production and wasn't thinking about how close we were to railroads. Wasted more than a few worker-turns.

Meh. We had plenty of workers hanging out and doing nothing before railroads. I thought it was funny.

 

[Mathias]

There is no stacking of Cop's and Newton's. They both modify the base commerce, or at least the part that is allocated to science. A true super-science city must first have the Colossus, which will add up to 21 commerce to the base, which is then multiplied by both science wonders. Shake's doesn't really fit into the equation, except to serve as an early hospital, and that is why we built it in Seville. The benefit of specialist citizens is not multiplied.

 

[Methos]

Out of curiosity do we want to go the route of Sanitation so we can build hospitals? Since we only have eight cities I’m thinking it may be wiser to get all of our cities to pop 20 and keep them there. I realize this will add to our pollution but it will also increase our production. Or would it be best to wait and let the AI’s research that path?

According to F4 the only active deal with the Americans is with the Ottomans. According to Shft-Ctrl-N the only resource the Ottomans have is Incense (x2) and Spices (x4). The only resources America has is Horses (x2), Coal, Gems, and Furs (x2). The Ottomans also have an active deal with the Koreans and the Ottomans currently have no Incense to spare. In other words the only import America possibly has right now is a luxury. If possible it would be nice to drag the Ottomans into this as well to at least take that luxury from them.

Just curious why we have workers building road and clearing wetland in tiles that are not in a cities radius?

When I start I’ll switch Valencia to the coal tile as we’re currently wasting food. Handy how that coal popped up already in our trade network. In my solo games it typically never appears in my territory at all!

Since we’re prepping for war I’ll switch Valencia to Knights.

We’ll have Industrialization in seven so I’m thinking of setting up some pre-builds for that.

Also I’m not sure if I’ll start the war or not and if I do it’ll be towards the end of my turnset. Sorry but I’m thinking I’d rather get the factories up first before we start the war.

After Industrialization what do we research next? In truth what is our future path of research or at least the must have soon techs?

Any suggestions or observations?

Edit: Noticed the posts above.

 

[MeteorPunch]

Just curious why we have workers building road and clearing wetland in tiles that are not in a cities radius?

They were bored. I should have stopped them on my last turn.

I'd start the war as soon as all horses are knights. Did we research Military Tradition? We don't need Cavalry if they only have spears.

Of course we want hospitals, the question is when.

Proposed research path.

Industrialization
Military tradition
Medicine
Sanitation
EDIT: Electricity
Scientific Method
Replaceable Parts
Atomic Theory and Electronics with ToE

 

[Mathias]

MP's proposed path looks good, but we should probably pick up Electricity somewhere along the way. Also, Corporation gives us Stock Exchanges, and 5 of those allow us to build Wall Street (300 shields, 2 cpt)

I suggest that we drop science to 60% for Indust in 9 and +94 gpt for upgrading our horses. Also, do we want any cannons?

I built the Conqistadors to cut the luxuries, but I don't think taking out luxuries is going to hurt America. They probably have temple, colosseum, cathedral in most of their cities. If not, then they wouldn't be a cultural threat.

 

[MeteorPunch]

I suggest that we drop science to 60% for Indust in 9 and +94 gpt for upgrading our horses. Also, do we want any cannons?

Artillary are great, but cannons, not so much and they will just slow down our forces. I think we can raze all of America in a 2-3 turnsets.

I built the Conqistadors to cut the luxuries, but I don't think taking out luxuries is going to hurt America. They probably have temple, colosseum, cathedral in most of their cities. If not, then they wouldn't be a cultural threat.

Cut luxuries and any resources. I've never used Conquistadors before so this'll be fun..if you guys don't kill America before I play again.

 

[pindicator]

I think we can raze all of America in a 2-3 turnsets.

Do we want to completely destroy America? Or do we just want to cripple them, keeping them from catching us culturally (half of their cities or so).

And we'll try to leave you a little fun, too, Meteor. Maybe we'll want to turn on Korea come your next turnset and those conquistadors will be really useful then

 

[Obormot]

If America only has spears then we should try to attack them before they learn Nationalism, and raze as many cities as we can. But i don't think we're really in a hurry here, since in the IA with factories running we can produce enough artillery to wipe everybody out. Do we have a prebuild for the US and ToE? Actually, i think that we don't need to waste time researching MT and Sanitation, but go directly to those wonders. If we can't destroy America with knights, then let them live and get rifles. We'll destroy them with artillery anyway.