Math02: 100K with limited cities

[Mathias]

Madrid cannot afford any new culture.
I'll switch Seville to Cop's when I play unless someone makes a lot of noise.
Don't worry about Berserks, we'd see the boats coming long before they threaten us.
There seems to be a world-wide iron shortage. The following civs lack iron: Korea, America, Maya, Ottomans, Hittites, and Vikings. That's right, aside from us, Persia is the only civ with access to iron.

 

[Methos]

- Seville or Madrid is best for Copernicus.

Negative on Madrid. I realize it may be a good runner for Cop but building it there will shrink our time table. Currently were looking at 2017 for a 20k and Cop will just make it sooner.

I prefer Sevilly building the palace to boost our northern cities production. We need to get those cities at a higher culture per turn. Unfortunately Valencia (sp?) won't be very productive but we'll probably just rush improvements there. Unless it's something we don't really need I can't see Val building many (if any) wonders.

IMO I'm not worried about the 20k at 2017 anymore, I think we'll beat that date by a good margin. I'd just not prefer lowering that margin by building more wonders in Madrid.

 

[Mathias]

I'll wait until tomorrow morning to play. I plan on switching Seville to Cop's to complete this turn, build univ there asap, then build palace. Barcelona will switch to Sistine. Santiago can short-rush colosseum as marketplace, and finish in 2 turns so we get that last citizen back to work sooner.

 

[pindicator]

- Madrid and Salamanca need defenders soon to prevent a catastrophic Berserk attack.

How many defenders do we need on each coastal city to prevent any possible Viking assault? I imagine we can expect our pikemen to fair poorly against any zerks.

Cop & Palace at Seville seems to be the winning argument. I only suggest building Shakespeare there as well when we get it.

Also realize that moving the Palace will decrease the projected 20k limit of Madrid, maybe even enough to push it past 2050. But I agree that we should not build any more wonders in Madrid, at least until we feel safer about approaching our threshhold.

World-wide iron shortage, huh? Maybe we can take advantage of that -- selling our iron to the less fortunate civs. Not until we feel relatively safe from a military standpoint, however. BTW, don't 'zerks require iron?

This is our game to lose, and I feel very happy saying that.

 

[Mathias]

How many defenders? Just one. If the Viking feel the need to attack us, they will not head for our coastal cities. They will instead drop their attackers off near Valencia, which will be undefended. We would then move our units to intercept. And no, berserks do not require iron.

 

[Mathias]

450 AD (0)
Seville: Cop's
Barcelona: Sistine
Santiago: short-rush colos as market (120g) to complete in 2 turns

IT: Madrid Horse >> Horse
Seville Cop's >> Univ.

460 AD (1)
IT: Santiago Colos >> Worker
Murcia Colos >> Worker

470 AD (2)
IT: Banking >> P.Press
Madrid Horse >> Bank
Santiago Worker >> Market
Murcia Worker >> Market

480 AD (3)
Sci 0% so we can rush univ in Seville sooner
IT: Salamanca Univ >> Worker

490 AD (4)
IT: Salamanca Worker >> Market

500 AD (5)
IT: Vikings want alliance vs Hittites: Not a chance. (They do have Chivalry, though)

510 AD (6)
Sell Literature to Korea for 17 gpt + 15 gold

520 AD (7)
Rush univ in Seville (456g) saving 7 turns
Sci 60% P.Press in 4 turns
IT: Two forests cleared near Santiago
Seville Univ >> Palace

530 AD (8)


540 AD (9)
IT: Murcia Market >> Bank

550 AD (10)
Sci 50%, P.Press due

Not much to say. Scandinavia has Chivalry, so we might want to forego bank in Murcia to prebuild KT. We'll need to complete it before the AI get Sun Tzu's or it may be lost in cascade. We cannot build Sun Tzu's ourselves for the same reason.

Valencia is looking pretty good. Two jungles will be cleared before growth, and two more before growth after that. Cathedral will also be complete before growth.

Lux to 0% when Sistine is complete

 

[pindicator]

I like buiding KT in Murcia. It's our fourth highest spt town behind Barcelona, Toledo, and Seville and it hasn't had a wonder yet. Gotta spread the love

Culture estimate updated. Madrid still due in 2018 for 20k culture. So in 2017 we will be (with only built city improvements):

Madrid -- 19,986
Barcelona -- 15,759
Seville -- 12,151
Santiago -- 9,497
Toledo -- 7,266
Murcia -- 9,460
Salamanca -- 9,412
Valencia -- 3,657

Total -- 87,288

Almost 10,000 culture more than the last turn-set had us at. Every single building makes a big difference -- I can't wait to see the 100k win year estimation start dropping

 

[Methos]

One thing I had forgotten until today is that the 100k isn't the only mark we have to meet. We also have to have at least twice the total culture of the next highest civ! Haven't looked at the save yet so don't know how we are fairing in that regard.

 

[MeteorPunch]

One thing I had forgotten until today is that the 100k isn't the only mark we have to meet. We also have to have at least twice the total culture of the next highest civ! Haven't looked at the save yet so don't know how we are fairing in that regard.

Once we hit the industrial age and have factories in our cities, we will probably start razing the AI's cities...it won't be a problem.

 

[Mathias]

Culture 450 AD / Culture 550 AD

#1 Madrid: 1972 / 2352 (+38 cpt)
#2 Barcelona: 1261 / 1521 (+26 cpt)
#3 Trondheim: 959 / 1165 (+21 cpt)
#4 Seville: 861 / 1063 (+20 cpt avg, now at +23 cpt)
#5 Santiago: 613 / 801 (+19 cpt)
#6 Toledo: 614 / 764 (+15 cpt; Toledo was #5, ahead of Santiago in 450 AD)
#7 Murcia: 570 / 758 (+19 cpt)
#8 Salamanca: 576 / 754 (+19 cpt)
#9 Chichén Itza ?? / ?? (Temple of Artemis)
#10 Washington ?? / ?? (Great Wall)

Spain: 6736 / 8332 (+160 cpt avg, actual is now +164 cpt)
Scandinavia: 1825 / 2351 (+53 cpt)

We need to average twice their culture growth to win as soon as we hit 100K. We are currently at three times their growth, and I expect we will exceed four times their growth before they begin to catch up.

Contrary to MeteorPunch's comment, we will probably not be waging much war at all. At least not against the Vikings.

We need to build a harbor in Madrid after the bank so that we can trade for luxuries while the Ottomans still have them available. We won't need additional luxuries until our cities are at least size 15, but they are still nice to have.

@pindicator: After the next turnset, the estimate should be around 95K at 2017 AD. Soon after that, our 100K estimate will be ahead of Madrid's 20K.

 

[MeteorPunch]

Contrary to MeteorPunch's comment, we will probably not be waging much war at all. At least not against the Vikings.

There's only a few culture buildings in the IA. If we want, we can build a massive military in the downtime.

...and raze all the AI's capitals

 

[Mathias]

If we wanted to...

 

[Obormot]

I'm afraid we'll have to fight in the IA, the AIs may have over 50K culture at 2000. Especially if one civ conquers a large territory. And they can also try to launch a spaceship before that. And with factories in the IA we can build lots of units. Also getting leaders may help us a lot, building Heroic Epic is nice and other leaders can be used to rush small wonders.

 

[Methos]

Meteorpunch is up, correct?

 

[pindicator]

Yep, go Meteor.

I think a little bit of might be fun, especially once we get all our culture buildings done. So far the AIs have been very nice and stayed mediocre comparatively; nobody's out racing around to conquer the world, but that's probably a bit of Monarch skill and two civs stuck on an awful set of islands.

I can start adding other civs' total culture in the culture watch if it ever becomes relevant.

 

[MeteorPunch]

550 IT
Printing Press is discovered.
Santiago builds Marketplace.

560 IT
Salamanca builds Marketplace.
Persians are building Art of War.
Scandinavia is building Knights Templar.

570 IT
Madrid builds Bank.

580 IT
Hittites and Persia sign peace treaty.
Valencia builds Cathedral.
Americans are building Knights Templar.
Koreans are building Knights Tempalar.

590 IT
Madrid builds Harbor.
Hittites are building Art of War.

600
Trade Currency to Ottomans for Incense and Spice. They are extremely backwards and only have 1 contact, Maya.
Lux slider to 0%.

IT
Barcelona builds Sistine Chapel.

610 IT
Toledo builds JS Bachs Cathedral.
Salamanca builds Courthouse.
Scandinavia and Persia know Invention.

620 IT
Economics is discovered.
Persians are building Leonardo's Workshop.
Persians are building Knights Templar.

630
Trade Theology to Korea for Chivalry, 35 gold, and 24 gpt.
Trade Theology to Persia for Invention and 8 gold.

640

650

- Salamanca is building a bank as prebuild for Magellen's, due in 3 turns. Don't disband the warriors.
- Things may need to be switched around, I put the wonders in the best cities I could think of.
- Scandinavia and Persia had been teaming up against the Hittites and now they will have most of a giant continent to themselves. Persia is at peace, but the Vikings are still at war.

 

[Methos]

Got it. I'll play after I finish my TGOMTG turnset, hopefully later on tonight.

 

[pindicator]

Nice job Meteor. I think we might want to stop making wonders in Barcelona as well -- it is currently projected to hit 20k in 2037; our civ is projected to hit 100k in 2036. Maybe switch Leo's over to Toledo and switch Barcelona to bank. But I do not think that if we finished Leo's in Barcelona we'd be in a bad position either; the other towns still have more culture to contribute, especially with some nice MA wonders still left to be made.

 

[Methos]

Another reason we should move the palace soon. Get that palace in Seville where it'll allow other less cultured cities to be more productive. I know this was agreed on but don't recall if we have done it yet. Need to check.

Edit: Yep, Seville to Palace in 520 AD

 

[MeteorPunch]

I'm against moving the palace until the industrial age. A few corruption and loss of shields doesn't hurt too much, whereas 300 shields are good for a whole wonder.

Funny:
Ottoman, Maya, and Spain know each other.
America, Korea, and Spain know each other.
Vikings, Persia, Hittites, and Spain know each other.
No one has contacts other than their own continents and us. This is good reason for our tech lead...don't trade contacts.