Math02: 100K with limited cities
- Thread starter Mathias
- Start date
pindicator
Emperor
Here are some embassy pictures to look over. Looks like Vikings will beat us to TGLight, but that was the last one on Meteor's AA Wonder list, so I'm not too disappointed. None of the other AIs are within 30 turns of completing a wonder, so it looks like TGLib will be ours easily as well.
Playing turns now.
Playing turns now.
pindicator
Emperor
Inherited Turn
Hmm... I wonder where that Korean settler pair is headed to?
Switch Seville from Spear to Horseman.
Time to buy some embassies:
Vikings will beat us to TGLight, but that should be the only one. We possibly could lose Temple of Artemis as well, but that is to be determined.
IBT
Mayans are building ToA.
730BC
I plan on growing our cities more during these turns, but not at expense of culture buildings coming out.
IBT
Santiago: Library -> Barracks
Hittites are building TGLight
710BC
IBT
Koreans settle Cheju one tile NE of the gold mountain.
And the people love us so much they reseed and mow our lawn.
690BC
IBT
Korea asks us to move our warrior. I forgot about that guy :/
America moves a warrior adjacent Murcia that I don't like. We really have no military if someone were to attack us now.
Seville: Horseman -> Horseman.
670BC
I missed that curragh by scandinavia. Haha, what should I do with him?
Our first horseman moves as close to Murcia as possible.
Korea now has Construction.
IBT
Korea demands our warrior leave and of course he does.
America warrior just passes by.
650BC
Rush library in Salamanca for 128g. All our libraries will neatly complete IBT and towns can now emphasize growth and defense.
IBT
Toledo: Library -> Settler --
Salamanca: Library -> Baracks
Murcia: Library -> Worker
630BC
Scandinavia now knows Construction as well. Well, so we will too, soon.
610BC
IBT
Seville: Horseman -> Horseman
Santiago: Barracks -> Worker
Murcia: Worker -> Courthouse
590BC
Korean settler pair has shown up in our west, and I fear they may be headed for somewhere near our final city location. I move a nearby horse to discourage a direct path south.
IBT
Korean settler pair retreats
570BC
IBT
Madrid: Pyramids->Library
Santiago: Worker->Spear
Koreans switch to The Great Wall
Persians switch to Great Lighthouse
Mayans switch to Temple of Artemis
Koreans found Ulsan in a horrible spot north of Mucia.
550BC
Here is my reasoning for building spearmen at Santiago. We have barely any military. All the other civs now know Map Making, and considering the Vikings are going to have zerks sooner or later, I figure it's better to get upgradable defense in our coastal cities just in case. If you guys think this is a bad move, feel free to change the spear.
I am a believer in horses over swords, due to their extra movement and retreat. Barracks may be superfluous once we get Sun Tzu's, but we can just sell them off then; since we won't have much of a military, they should all be trained troups.
Settler is coming out of Toledo with growth on the IBT. I believe the majority has spoken for two tiles north of the wine. Ideally, a worker should time a forest chop to finish the IBT after the city is founded, which of course will go to its culture building.
I believe the timing is 6 worker-turns for a forest chop. I think if one of the workers irrigating south of Barcelona moves after the irrgation finishes, they should miss that timing by one or two turns.
All right peanut gallery, your turn!
Hmm... I wonder where that Korean settler pair is headed to?
Switch Seville from Spear to Horseman.
Time to buy some embassies:
Vikings will beat us to TGLight, but that should be the only one. We possibly could lose Temple of Artemis as well, but that is to be determined.
IBT
Mayans are building ToA.
730BC
I plan on growing our cities more during these turns, but not at expense of culture buildings coming out.
IBT
Santiago: Library -> Barracks
Hittites are building TGLight
710BC
IBT
Koreans settle Cheju one tile NE of the gold mountain.
And the people love us so much they reseed and mow our lawn.
690BC
IBT
Korea asks us to move our warrior. I forgot about that guy :/
America moves a warrior adjacent Murcia that I don't like. We really have no military if someone were to attack us now.
Seville: Horseman -> Horseman.
670BC
I missed that curragh by scandinavia. Haha, what should I do with him?
Our first horseman moves as close to Murcia as possible.
Korea now has Construction.
IBT
Korea demands our warrior leave and of course he does.
America warrior just passes by.
650BC
Rush library in Salamanca for 128g. All our libraries will neatly complete IBT and towns can now emphasize growth and defense.
IBT
Toledo: Library -> Settler --
Salamanca: Library -> Baracks
Murcia: Library -> Worker
630BC
Scandinavia now knows Construction as well. Well, so we will too, soon.
610BC
IBT
Seville: Horseman -> Horseman
Santiago: Barracks -> Worker
Murcia: Worker -> Courthouse
590BC
Korean settler pair has shown up in our west, and I fear they may be headed for somewhere near our final city location. I move a nearby horse to discourage a direct path south.
IBT
Korean settler pair retreats
570BC
IBT
Madrid: Pyramids->Library
Santiago: Worker->Spear
Koreans switch to The Great Wall
Persians switch to Great Lighthouse
Mayans switch to Temple of Artemis
Koreans found Ulsan in a horrible spot north of Mucia.
550BC
Here is my reasoning for building spearmen at Santiago. We have barely any military. All the other civs now know Map Making, and considering the Vikings are going to have zerks sooner or later, I figure it's better to get upgradable defense in our coastal cities just in case. If you guys think this is a bad move, feel free to change the spear.
I am a believer in horses over swords, due to their extra movement and retreat. Barracks may be superfluous once we get Sun Tzu's, but we can just sell them off then; since we won't have much of a military, they should all be trained troups.
Settler is coming out of Toledo with growth on the IBT. I believe the majority has spoken for two tiles north of the wine. Ideally, a worker should time a forest chop to finish the IBT after the city is founded, which of course will go to its culture building.
I believe the timing is 6 worker-turns for a forest chop. I think if one of the workers irrigating south of Barcelona moves after the irrgation finishes, they should miss that timing by one or two turns.
All right peanut gallery, your turn!
Attachments
4 turns to cut forest, looks like timing is perfect: 2 turns to finish irrigation, 1 turn to move, and 4 turns to cut forest is 7 turns; 1 turn to complete settler, 5 turns to move, then build on the 7th turn.
I would like Seville to start pre-build for Hanging Gardens soon. The Great Library will get us Polytheism, and we should be able to research Monarchy in 5 turns at 80% science. I don't want to delay research much after that. We can bee-line for Music Theory and Astronomy and get the critical MA wonders that much sooner. There are three scientific rivals, once we get Currency, we can gift required techs to pull their freebies from the Library. If we are lucky, none of them will have met by then.
I would like Seville to start pre-build for Hanging Gardens soon. The Great Library will get us Polytheism, and we should be able to research Monarchy in 5 turns at 80% science. I don't want to delay research much after that. We can bee-line for Music Theory and Astronomy and get the critical MA wonders that much sooner. There are three scientific rivals, once we get Currency, we can gift required techs to pull their freebies from the Library. If we are lucky, none of them will have met by then.
pindicator
Emperor
One thing I forgot to mention: do we want to postpone TGLib again? Nobody knows Literacy still, and I'm confident our cities can beat any of the AIs to it -- the only risk would be a cascade. What I'm thinking is that we can try to pick up ToA or Great Wall by trading for those techs, or even outright buying them.
However, I think I'm inclined against this. TGLib is 6 culture and that's culture we'd want to double as soon as possible.
Oh, and I forgot to sell the granaries in Barcelona and Madrid after Pyramids completed. Next person be sure to do that.
However, I think I'm inclined against this. TGLib is 6 culture and that's culture we'd want to double as soon as possible.
Oh, and I forgot to sell the granaries in Barcelona and Madrid after Pyramids completed. Next person be sure to do that.
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
lurker's comment: Something to try here since no one else knows lit is to grab construction, build TGW really quickly, then safely build the great library at a slightly later date.
This works if you guys do 2 things, 1) kill the cascade ASAP. You kill it by stealing wonders.
2) keep lit to yourselves.
I would personally swap the great library to the ToA, buy any necessary techs, and put your next best availible city on TGW, and your third best back on the great library. You can get a prebuild going soon for the FP and the HG, both nice things to grab in the ancient age.
Looking good, I will kibitz more in the future.
This works if you guys do 2 things, 1) kill the cascade ASAP. You kill it by stealing wonders.
2) keep lit to yourselves.
I would personally swap the great library to the ToA, buy any necessary techs, and put your next best availible city on TGW, and your third best back on the great library. You can get a prebuild going soon for the FP and the HG, both nice things to grab in the ancient age.
Looking good, I will kibitz more in the future.
I have to agree to Romeo, cascades can steal wonders, and the most nasty cascade is the ToA one which is 500 shields. When someone builds ToA, we may loose a few other wonders, so building the ToA is a good idea. If we switch Barselona to ToA now, we'll propably beat everybody to it, and everybody will switch to TGW or TGLight, the low-culture per shield wonders, since nobody knows literature or monarchy. I'm not sure about TGW, though, it's only 300 shields worth. So maybe we should switch Barselona to ToA and Madrid to TGL (after library)?
Another point is building colosseums. Now that we know construction, we can build colosseums, that are good to build as early as possible, so should we start building them now, or some military is more important.
IIRC, it's my turn now, so i'll wait for some advice on the above and i'll propably play in the evening.
Another point is building colosseums. Now that we know construction, we can build colosseums, that are good to build as early as possible, so should we start building them now, or some military is more important.
IIRC, it's my turn now, so i'll wait for some advice on the above and i'll propably play in the evening.
The above sounds good so long as no one else gets Literature. We'll have to refuse any demands for it so we might want to build up our military just in case.
Colosseums are a definite so we should build them ASAP! My guess would be except for out two wonder building cities and our one military city everyone else should work on culture. Once that's done possibly more military or more workers. In truth I'd say workers before military once the culture builds are up. We need to get our land fully improved as fast as possible.
Colosseums are a definite so we should build them ASAP! My guess would be except for out two wonder building cities and our one military city everyone else should work on culture. Once that's done possibly more military or more workers. In truth I'd say workers before military once the culture builds are up. We need to get our land fully improved as fast as possible.
pindicator
Emperor
Just saying I agree with everything Methos and Obormot put up.
Vikings have Lighthouse in 2 turns. That will end the cascade on the eastern continent as no one over there has Polytheism.
America is at least 30 turns from ToA, estimate: 33 to 35.
Ottomans are also at least 30 turns, estimate: 34 to 37.
Maya is with 25 turns, possibly as little as 23.
Barcelona could complete it in 19 turns, or complete the Library in 10 turns.
Madrid could build ToA in 21 turns, forgoing it's library.
Madrid is our best location for Cop's and Newt's. In order to balance culture, and prevent Madrid from getting too much, I think building ToA in Madrid and Library in Barcelona is best. We also need to get the Gardens in Seville.
Plan:
Trade for Poly (Writing to Ottomans, Maya would be insulted by same)
Madrid: ToA
Barcelona: Great Library
Seville: Palace (prebuild for Hanging Gardens)
Research Monarchy at max (80%, maybe 70% once GA ends).
Edit: Can we really hold off on The Great Library?
If so, then...
Madrid: library >> Great Wall
Barcelona: ToA
Seville: Great Library
Other thoughts?
America is at least 30 turns from ToA, estimate: 33 to 35.
Ottomans are also at least 30 turns, estimate: 34 to 37.
Maya is with 25 turns, possibly as little as 23.
Barcelona could complete it in 19 turns, or complete the Library in 10 turns.
Madrid could build ToA in 21 turns, forgoing it's library.
Madrid is our best location for Cop's and Newt's. In order to balance culture, and prevent Madrid from getting too much, I think building ToA in Madrid and Library in Barcelona is best. We also need to get the Gardens in Seville.
Plan:
Trade for Poly (Writing to Ottomans, Maya would be insulted by same)
Madrid: ToA
Barcelona: Great Library
Seville: Palace (prebuild for Hanging Gardens)
Research Monarchy at max (80%, maybe 70% once GA ends).
Edit: Can we really hold off on The Great Library?
If so, then...
Madrid: library >> Great Wall
Barcelona: ToA
Seville: Great Library
Other thoughts?
Balancing culure is an important issue, and i'm afraid that we won't be able to build both Newton's and Copernicus's in Madrid, cause that will give us a too early 20k date, even if we don't build the GL in Madrid. But that's not very important, cause there is not much culural builds in the IA. IIRC AI priority of Literature increases when they need more turns for techs, so i don't think that we have much time before the AIs get Lit and i don't think we really need TGW, cause it has low culure and is only worth 300 shields, which means that cascades are not that dangerous. I think it's better to let the AIs build TGW and TGLight before they advance to MA and cascade to Sun Tzu's. SO i think i'll play according to Mathias's first plan. I got the save and i'm going to play now.
pre-turn:
- Trade with Osman, get Poly for Writing
- Switch Madrid to ToA, 17 turns, but will decrease after GA is over
- Switch Seville to Palace
- Start Monarchy at 80%, will get it in 5 turns
- I wanted to build colosseums, but our military is too small, and we have only 8 cities, so the AIs won't be afraid of
us. I decided to build some more horses before colosseums (at least 10), so that we can protect ourselves. The Vikings
won't be able to attack us untill Astronomy, so i switched spear to horse.
-530
- Toledo: settler->barracks
-510
- Vinkings complete TGLight, as expected.
Oops, i forgot about that. This means that the Vikings can actually reach us before Astronomy, but i'm not sure if we
want to build spears, though. I think we'll have enough time for that, and for now i'll just build horses.
- I didn't get any cascade messages, it seems that Persians and Hittites just lost all their shields.
-490
- Salamanca: barracks->horse
-470
-
-450
- Xerxes demands Literature. He is on another continent, but we have only 3 turns to complete TGL, so this won't cause
any cascades, so i gave it to him.
- Mursilis demands Lit too. Oh well, he's on the same continent as Xerxes anyway.
- And another one: Korea demands Poly! This is worth, but they are close to us, so i had to give again.
- Santiago: horse->horse
- Our GA is supposed to end next turn, so i raise lux to 30%.
- I sold Lit to Vikings for all their gold (126), cause they'll get it from Persia and Hittites anyway.
-430
- GA ends.
- 20% is actually enough to keep Madrid quiet (5 happy, 1 content, 5 unhappy), i must have made a mistake in my
calculations.
- Founded Valencia, started temple there.
-410
- Hurry temple in Valencia for 76 gold
- Toledo growed and i raised lux to 30%. We don't need fast research anyway, so i think we can affors raising lux because
of one city. And Madrid will grow in 2 turns also.
-390
- Toledo: barracks->horse
- Valencia: temple->library
-370
- Americans start HG! They have just learned Monarchy
- Many civs start ToA (no cascades, they simply just discovered Poly)
- The Koreans alos know Monarchy, so they'll start HG soon.
- I though it was because the Vikings reached our continent and traded much, but i checked diplomacy - nobody has new
contacts.
- I think we need some espionage now and some carefull planning, but i'll leave it for later, cause i have just one turn
left to play. (Maybe we should switch Madrid to HG and let the AIs build ToA-350.)
- Rush library in Valencia for 316 gold
-350
- Barselona: TGL->library
- We discover Currency, i turn research off
- Trade with Osman, get Poly for Writing
- Switch Madrid to ToA, 17 turns, but will decrease after GA is over
- Switch Seville to Palace
- Start Monarchy at 80%, will get it in 5 turns
- I wanted to build colosseums, but our military is too small, and we have only 8 cities, so the AIs won't be afraid of
us. I decided to build some more horses before colosseums (at least 10), so that we can protect ourselves. The Vikings
won't be able to attack us untill Astronomy, so i switched spear to horse.
-530
- Toledo: settler->barracks
-510
- Vinkings complete TGLight, as expected.
Oops, i forgot about that. This means that the Vikings can actually reach us before Astronomy, but i'm not sure if we
want to build spears, though. I think we'll have enough time for that, and for now i'll just build horses.
- I didn't get any cascade messages, it seems that Persians and Hittites just lost all their shields.
-490
- Salamanca: barracks->horse
-470
-
-450
- Xerxes demands Literature. He is on another continent, but we have only 3 turns to complete TGL, so this won't cause
any cascades, so i gave it to him.
- Mursilis demands Lit too. Oh well, he's on the same continent as Xerxes anyway.
- And another one: Korea demands Poly! This is worth, but they are close to us, so i had to give again.
- Santiago: horse->horse
- Our GA is supposed to end next turn, so i raise lux to 30%.
- I sold Lit to Vikings for all their gold (126), cause they'll get it from Persia and Hittites anyway.
-430
- GA ends.
- 20% is actually enough to keep Madrid quiet (5 happy, 1 content, 5 unhappy), i must have made a mistake in my
calculations.
- Founded Valencia, started temple there.
-410
- Hurry temple in Valencia for 76 gold
- Toledo growed and i raised lux to 30%. We don't need fast research anyway, so i think we can affors raising lux because
of one city. And Madrid will grow in 2 turns also.
-390
- Toledo: barracks->horse
- Valencia: temple->library
-370
- Americans start HG! They have just learned Monarchy
- Many civs start ToA (no cascades, they simply just discovered Poly)
- The Koreans alos know Monarchy, so they'll start HG soon.
- I though it was because the Vikings reached our continent and traded much, but i checked diplomacy - nobody has new
contacts.
- I think we need some espionage now and some carefull planning, but i'll leave it for later, cause i have just one turn
left to play. (Maybe we should switch Madrid to HG and let the AIs build ToA-350.)
- Rush library in Valencia for 316 gold
-350
- Barselona: TGL->library
- We discover Currency, i turn research off
Just doing a little figuring and when we complete ToA in Madrid itll be sitting around 12,754 culture. So as Mathias mentioned we need to start building wonders elsewhere or were going to wind up with a 20k.
Out of curiosity if we complete all the current builds as Obormot has them set up well have 51,783 culture in 2050. We seem to be moving along rather nicely.
By the looks of it well gain Map Making and Construction next turn from the GL so well be entering the MA. Do we gift the Sci civs to see what we can get? I believe this was already mentioned so ignore me if it has.
I would suggest we move one of Madrids citizens to the forest tile as the +2 food isnt needed anymore. Were currently at max pop.
Seville has citizens working unimproved tiles. I would suggest we improve them to speed up the HG.
All the irrigation should enable us to reach max pop quickly, than well need to switch them back to mines. No since in wasting food if we dont have too.
How soon should we build the FP? Id think soon so we can lower our corruption.
Do we really want the ToA? Im worried the cascade could cause us to lose the HG. Currently America is building it and Korea has the ability. Korea is also building the GW so we could lose it to them when they cascade. Madrid can finish the HG in 3.
IMO HG is more important than ToA, but thats just me.
Great game Obormot!
Out of curiosity if we complete all the current builds as Obormot has them set up well have 51,783 culture in 2050. We seem to be moving along rather nicely.
By the looks of it well gain Map Making and Construction next turn from the GL so well be entering the MA. Do we gift the Sci civs to see what we can get? I believe this was already mentioned so ignore me if it has.
I would suggest we move one of Madrids citizens to the forest tile as the +2 food isnt needed anymore. Were currently at max pop.
Seville has citizens working unimproved tiles. I would suggest we improve them to speed up the HG.
All the irrigation should enable us to reach max pop quickly, than well need to switch them back to mines. No since in wasting food if we dont have too.
How soon should we build the FP? Id think soon so we can lower our corruption.
Do we really want the ToA? Im worried the cascade could cause us to lose the HG. Currently America is building it and Korea has the ability. Korea is also building the GW so we could lose it to them when they cascade. Madrid can finish the HG in 3.
IMO HG is more important than ToA, but thats just me.
Great game Obormot!
MeteorPunch
#WINNING
Good points Methos.
Take into consideration that we can sell improvements if we are fearing going over 20k in a city.
I wouldn't give the scientific civs jack! By keeping our tech lead, we can get started on the wonderful world of middle age wonders first, and ven use them as backup if say ToA is built first by someone else.
Take into consideration that we can sell improvements if we are fearing going over 20k in a city.
I wouldn't give the scientific civs jack! By keeping our tech lead, we can get started on the wonderful world of middle age wonders first, and ven use them as backup if say ToA is built first by someone else.
I think that we don't give anybody any techs, so that all cascades end before anybody gets into the MA and starts Sun Tzu. We can still build colosseums in our cities that are not busy building wonders after we have some military. As for the ToA we need to calculate everything carefully (Mathias is very good at it 
), and if we can get both ToA and HG, try to get both, otherwise switch Madrid to HG (we won't loose any shields). When all AA wonders are build we can advance to the MA.
), and if we can get both ToA and HG, try to get both, otherwise switch Madrid to HG (we won't loose any shields). When all AA wonders are build we can advance to the MA.pindicator
Emperor
Once again, I'm late to the board and everyone seems to have said everything figured as I would.
I think HG is more important than ToA, so if we have to choose between the two we should pick up HG.
One thing we should really consider, is that now Madrid and Barcelona are in good condition culture-wise compared to our other cities, we can have them have them pump workers to help bring along our other cities. A large work-force is needed. As our other cities are improved, we can move them to wonder production. If we are going to get our other cities involved in wonder-building this is the quickest way to do that.
I think HG is more important than ToA, so if we have to choose between the two we should pick up HG.
One thing we should really consider, is that now Madrid and Barcelona are in good condition culture-wise compared to our other cities, we can have them have them pump workers to help bring along our other cities. A large work-force is needed. As our other cities are improved, we can move them to wonder production. If we are going to get our other cities involved in wonder-building this is the quickest way to do that.
Well, I might as well just state the obvious: There is no way we can complete HG before we build ToA, and ToA will cascade to HG. So then, I think we should go ahead and build HG in Madrid, switching Seville to Palace to preserve the shields in a prebuild for Sun Tzu's.
Forbidden Palace does require 10 cities!
Well then, what should we do about that?
Forbidden Palace does require 10 cities! Well then, what should we do about that?
MeteorPunch
#WINNING
Do you think we need it? I don't. If we do, I'd be for something like building 10 to complete it, then disbanding them.Mathias said:
Well then, what should we do about that?
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