Math02: 100K with limited cities

[Methos]

Currently our most corrupt cities are Toledo and Murcia at 40% and 42% respectively. If we add the additional two cities and build the FP will it drop the corruption to the point its better than it currently is?

If we do, I'd be for something like building 10 to complete it, then disbanding them.

If we build ten cities I’d rather not disband them though I see the obvious benefit in doing so. My deal is we either do this with eight or ten, not ten for a little while than back to eight.

IMHO I believe this would be more challenging with eight cities and by all appearances I believe my may not even need the FP. Currently we are catching the majority of the wonders and as the calculations look we are doing great getting to 100k.

I think we should go ahead and build HG in Madrid, switching Seville to Palace to preserve the shields in a prebuild for Sun Tzu's.

I agree on the switch in Madrid as the HG is worth it. Not too sure about Sun Tzu’s as I typically use it as a pre-build for more important wonders. The additional barracks would be nice but we will only have either eight or ten cities so shield wise it’d be better to just build them. Can’t remember what the culture value is for Sun Tzu’s so don’t know if it’s worth it that way.

In truth I would like to stick with eight cities. I’m not sure if the FP is worth it or the additional two cities. One of the reasons I prefer doing it with eight cities is it also requires the challenge of not getting one city to 20k.

 

[MeteorPunch]

I agree with all of Methos' post.

SunTzu, I think, is 2 culture. Really pathetic and should only be used as a prebuild or a last resort.

 

[madviking]

lurker's comment: Sistine chapel is a must-need for 100ks

 

[Methos]

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[Mathias]

No offense to madv, but that last comment just annoyed me. It seems somewhat random, not to mention obvious.

Anyway, I have just realized that, with Map Making and Construction coming in this turn, we can have Seville build Colosseum this turn with no wasted shields. We'd have to delay growth by 1 turn, but this looks like our best option. I only brought up Sun Tzu's because I didn't want to waste the shields we had invested in HG, and because I fully expect that we will be able to get every great wonder outside of the ancient times.

That said, I intend to run max science through Monotheism and Theology. Madrid and Barcelona will build their remaining cultural improvements, then switch to workers and military support. Seville will build cathedral then Sistine. The other cities will continue to concentrate on culture.

I need to start playing within two hours to get this in tonight, so I'll check back in about an hour / hour and a half before I begin.

 

[pindicator]

I think we should stick with our eight cities. So we can't build the FP as planned; we'll have to make do with Courthouses. I suggest rushing the Courthouse in Murcia so it can switch to Colosseum. I'd suggest rushing the Courthouse in Valencia, too, but we don't have the gold for it.

I don't think we should let the AI research for us, even with the GLib. I agree with mathias' research strategy. Afterwards we will have several choices to go for tech: do we research straight through education / music theory, etc for the really good culture wonders? Or do we backtrack a bit, pick up Sun Tzu's, Knights Templar, and Leonardo's first, possibly getting some use out of our GLib?

I'm going to say it again, even if I'm beating a dead horse: we need irrigation and we need city growth and we need workers. It's not so bad now that we have Pyramids, but the faster we get our cities up to size twelve, the faster we can customize those cities for optimum production at size twelve, the faster they spew out their culture-buildings.

 

[Methos]

I'd suggest we disband the two curraghs as they've done nothing but sit for 10 to 20 turns. Might as well save the cash.

we need irrigation and we need city growth and we need workers.

I would have to agree. Watering three tiles in each city gives +5 food bonus allowing our cities to grow quickly without wasting food. Once they get to size 12 we can switch those tiles to mines. I also agree with the workers.

Madrid is at max pop and still growing so building a worker when it is maxed out in food will leave us at pop 11 for a single turn. We also should be slowing down on things so should have the ability to build a few more workers.

 

[MeteorPunch]

I don't think we should let the AI research for us, even with the GLib. I agree with mathias' research strategy. Afterwards we will have several choices to go for tech: do we research straight through education / music theory, etc for the really good culture wonders? Or do we backtrack a bit, pick up Sun Tzu's, Knights Templar, and Leonardo's first, possibly getting some use out of our GLib?

I haven't looked at the saves since I played last, but it seems we will be ahead in tech for the rest of the game. I would go straight to education, because Universities in each city is better than several wonders.

 

[Mathias]

I agree: straight through Education because the AI are too far back to make GL useful techwise.

350 BC (0)
Seville to Palace
Madrid to HG
Rush Courthouse in Murcia
Disband curraghs - that was a waste of too much gold. Still wondering why nobody (myself included) mentioned them before the previous turnset.
MM cities:
Madrid gives up BG to Barcelona, HG in 3
Santiago, Salamanca need aqueducts, will switch next turn
Valencia has no use for courthouse yet, switch to worker

IT: Map Making, Construction >> Monotheism
Change Seville to Colosseum
Seville Colosseum >> Horse
Borders expand: wines now in our territory

330 BC (1)
Change Santiago, Salamanca to build aqueducts
Sell Code of Laws to Maya for 102 gold

310 BC (2)
IT: Madrid HG >> Library
Persia begins GW

290 BC (3)
Toledo switched to courthouse: too much overrun otherwise

270 BC (4)
IT: Seville Horse >> Cathedral prebuild

250 BC (5)
Realize that I forgot to adjust lux after HG: Lux 20, Sci 80 save 1 turn on Mono.
IT: Barcelona Library >> Colosseum

230 BC (6)
IT: Two forests chopped for Murcia - both reveal BG!
Madrid Library >> Colosseum
Toledo riots - oops, growth last turn, I missed that

210 BC (7)
Lux back to 30% Mono still 2 turns (no change)

190 BC (8)
Science down to 60%
IT: Forests chopped for Salamanca, Santiago
Monotheism >> Theology

170 BC (9)
Theology in 11 turns at 50%.
Switch Toledo to cathedral
Madrid and Barcelona also switch to cathedrals
IT: Valencia Worker >> Worker

150 BC (10)
...

Notes:
Madrid: Cathedral due. Next: worker, then colosseum. Make sure to get growth on turn after worker is built. May need MM if 12th citizen doesn't make 20 spt on growth.
Barcelona: Cathedral due.
Seville: Growth every 3 turns (6+7+7). After cathedral, begin prebuild for Sistine.
Toledo: Cathedral in 2 turns, then lux can go back to 20%. Need courthouse here.
Santiago: MM'd for no wasted shields on aqueduct, move citizen for growth after aqueduct complete. Need culture here, can clear more forests.
Salamanca: Culture after aqueduct, can clear forests.
Murcia: Can hurry aqueduct this turn (116g) and grow next turn. Build culture.
Valencia: Jungle will be cleared 1 turn after growth. Be sure to put new citizen on that tile, which will be a grassland before food is counted.

 

[pindicator]

Good turns, Mathias. Care to post a save?

 

[Mathias]

I added the save this morning. Is anyone out there?

 

[MeteorPunch]

I didn't know the save was added...got it now.

 

[MeteorPunch]

150
enter

130
Madrid builds Cathedral.
Barcelona builds Cathedral.
Salamanca builds Aquaduct.
Luxury slider to 10%, Science at 70%

110
Madrid builds worker.
Toledo builds Cathedral.
Santiago builds Aquaduct.
Lux: 20% Sci: 60%

90

70
Toledo builds worker.
Maya complete Temple of Artemis.

50
Seville builds Cathedral.
Murcia builds Aquaduct.
America builds the Great Wall.
Korea sends out a galley from Ulsan.
Lux: 10%

30
Seville builds worker.
Vikings complete Statue of Zeus.
America has a galley trailing the Korean galley.

10 BC

10 AD
Theology is discovered.
Oracle is obsolete.
Madrid builds Colosseum.
Lux: 20%
Trade Map Making to Maya for 112 gold and 3gpt.
Trade Horseback Riding to Korea for 78 gold and 5gpt.

30
Barcelona builds Colosseum.
Seville builds Horseman.

50
Barcelona builds worker.

- a worker connecting the wine will complete the road next turn.
- consider cash-rushing things as an option. We have 400 gold.
- our beautiful palace :shakehead

 

[Mathias]

Looks good, except Seville is supposed to be building Sistine.

 

[Methos]

Got it, will play tonight. Any other specifics I need to know?

Edit: Do we need to change Seville to Sistine or not? Sounds like there are no shields built up there yet (sorry, haven't had a chance to look at the save).

 

[MeteorPunch]

Got it, will play tonight. Any other specifics I need to know?

Edit: Do we need to change Seville to Sistine or not? Sounds like there are no shields built up there yet (sorry, haven't had a chance to look at the save).

There should be 10 shields in Seville. Madrid will have 40 shields. Switch them, if this was the plan.

After I started playing, I forgot to check here.

 

[Methos]

Reading this through one more time than will start playing. Post suggestions if you got'em.

Edit:

Disband curraghs - that was a waste of too much gold. Still wondering why nobody (myself included) mentioned them before the previous turnset.

I was the one who fortified them where they were during my last turnset as I didn't know what to do with them. I even stated it then:

-The two curraghs met and are currently fortified as I didn’t have a clue what to do with them. They were fortified either this turn or the turn before, can’t remember.

Sorry about that, guess they just got overlooked.

 

[Methos]

Education in 2 but unsure what to research after that. Don't recall any discuss for after Education. Thoughts?

 

[Methos]

Pre-Turn: According to CAII Madrid will hit 20k in 2073 so I switch the Sistine to Marketplace for the extra cash. Seville also switched Horseman>Sistine. Switch Toledo Colliseum>Courthouse. Hittites only have contacts with Persia and the Vikings and they have 156 gold so:

Hittites: We get 156 gold; we give Republic.

IT: Wines connected.

1@70 AD: Barcelona switch citizens to produce 15 spt than short-rush a barracks (92 gold) and switch back to Marketplace. It’ll be done in 4 turns with no shields wasted.

IT: Zzzz

2@90 AD: Zzzz

IT: Vikings demand Currency, as I don’t recall hearing about how to deal with demands I give in. Vikings enter the MA.

Madrid Marketplace>Courthouse (pre-build for university).

3@110 AD: MM Toledo so not to waste a shield.

IT: Toledo Courthouse>Colosseum. Salamanca Cathedral>Colosseum. Murcia Cathedral>Colosseum.

4@130 AD: Seville is wasting food so will start converting watered tiles to mines.

IT: Barcelona Marketplace>Courthouse (pre-build for university). Santiago Cathedral>Colosseum.

5@150 AD: Adjust research to 5/3/2. Barcelona short-rushes Barracks, switches to Courthouse.

IT: Zzzz

6@170 AD: Zzzz

IT: Learn Education>Music Theory. Madrid switches to University.

7@190 AD: Murcia switches to University as a pre-build for JS Bach’s.

IT: !! Barcelona Courthouse>University. Sorry guys, I totally forgot about Barcelona, meant to switch that to a University. We may want to sell the courthouse as I'm unsure how beneficial it is in Barcelona.

8@210 AD: Zzzz

IT: Hittites demand Currency, again I give in. Vikings are building Sun Tzu’s. Hittites enter the MA.

9@230 AD: Zzzz

IT: Zzzz

10@250 AD: Zzzz

I left two workers with full movement so do with them as you want. Currently Murcia is pre-building for JS Bach’s.

With only the current builds, not those being built, we are looking at a cultural amount as of 2050 AD:

Barcelona: 10,622
Madrid: 18,960
Murcia: 6,412
Salamanca: 6,430
Santiago: 6,449
Seville: 8,277
Toledo: 6,534
Valencia: 3,977

For a total of 67,661!

Obviously we need to pay extremely close attention to Madrid as it’s already nearing the 20k mark.

 

[pindicator]

After Madrid finishes its university, I think we should consider turning it into a worker factory. We still have a good amount of jungle to clear, our gems to hook up, and to bring Valencia up to size quickly via merging. We do have 19 tiles of jungle to clear and turn into productive land still. Either that, or actually pumping out some defense. Horsemen on the coast are not going to cut it if the 'zerks decide to come knocking. I think Madrid has made enough wonders, at least for now; I doubt we'll pick up our 100k victory at the year 2049, but we need to bring those other cities up.

Scandinavia currently has Feudalism. Do we trade them Monotheism for it?

Do we consider gifting the other civs up to the Middle Ages yet? Scientific civs only to pick up Engineering / cheaper pricing on Feudalism?

It is my turn, isn't it? Got it and will play tonight or tomorrow, after I see some commentary.