[NFP] Maya First Look

I think the Maya will have serious housing problems lategame. You're encouraged to tightly pack your cities, so your districts will take up a lot of available room, so you won't have much room for farms to make up for the lack of fresh water. Neighborhoods may help, but... I'm not building them unless they nerf partisans.

I wonder if this civ will get housing from aqueducts?
 
While Korea is powerful, I wouldn't mark them as OP science-wise as the seowon can ONLY be built on hills (and also because of the existence of Scotland). As Potato MacWhiskey pointed out on YouTube, the Maya have more long-term science potential than Korea, even if at first glance they seem a tier below.
I think AI Maya will always be better than AI Korea at least. AI Korea constantly pulls ahead early game and then everyone else catches up because they start to build districts around the Seowon. The good news for the Maya is once you put down the Observatory the bonuses will stay and you can't harvest most plantation resources.

Now when it comes to humans, I think a Korea player would have the advantage over a Maya player because they will know where to place their Seowons and not lose the adjacency bonuses while building mines next to them.
 
I think AI Maya will always be better than AI Korea at least. AI Korea constantly pulls ahead early game and then everyone else catches up because they start to build districts around the Seowon. The good news for the Maya is once you put down the Observatory the bonuses will stay and you can't harvest most plantation resources.

Now when it comes to humans, I think a Korea player would have the advantage over a Maya player because they will know where to place their Seowons and not lose the adjacency bonuses while building mines next to them.
Does the Korea AI build districts around their seowon? If so, ugh. I wish they would reprogram specific AI to let them at least play slightly smarter (we might not reach Civ IV levels of competence any time soon, but still).
 
Does the Korea AI build districts around their seowon? If so, ugh. I wish they would reprogram specific AI to let them at least play slightly smarter (we might not reach Civ IV levels of competence any time soon, but still).

I believe the AI is checking for the adjacency bonus of the new District and doesn't calculate how it ruins ones that already exist. So since districts give adjacency, it places them next to the Seowon...
 
We will see what the life will bring. I see this potental too. A point is a straitforward civs like Korea should never be an S tier civs. They must be around as a gateway civs. They should offer simple and efficient strategies, but only to the certain level. If you want more, do more. S tier should be a reward for a proper use of potential not so obvious civs like The Maya or Scotland. There are players who just want to maximize their chances to win. What is puprose for them to pick Scotland if they have Korea? But is this game rewarding?

I believe the AI is checking for the adjacency bonus of the new District and doesn't calculate how it ruins ones that already exist. So since districts give adjacency, it places them next to the Seowon...
It is not a problem how AI plays with a certain civ, but how you play it.
 
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It is not a problem how AI plays with a certain civ, but how you play it.

I was not arguing that making a civ interesting is a negative because the AI plays it wrong. I was explaining that the AI will play it wrong and why. I was also expressing that I think something interesting that the AI *can* play is a better idea than something interesting it cannot play.
 
Longshot agenda guess: Likes empires who have fewer plantations than she does, dislikes empires that have more.
 
Is it possible to have an agenda where the AI dislikes someone because their cities are too far apart?
 
Is it possible to have an agenda where the AI dislikes someone because their cities are too far apart?
Short of some extremely intensive LUA calculation, I don’t think distance between cities can be tracked normally.
 
Her agenda could be as simple as liking tall empires, or disliking wide ones.
Which would basically make her the opposite of Rome. It's possible.
 
Well, well, well...this is clearly intended to be a civ for people like me: a limited number of highly developed cities, high science, mostly peaceful playstyle. It's been a while since I tried to analyze a new civ, but here it goes:

Leader Ability - Ix Mutual Ajaw
Cities within 6 tiles of the capital receive +10% to all yields. Other cities get -15% to all yields. The capital itself has normal output.
+5 combat strength to units within 6 tiles of the capital.


This is a very interesting ability, clearly aimed at a tall playstyle. 6 tiles is nice and generous, and will give you a maximum of 6 non-capital cities which can take advantage of the bonus with optimal placement (with only 12 overlapping tiles between all 7 cities). Of course, in practice, optimal placement is not realistic, and the Maya can of course still choose to have more cities. I do like this a lot, though, as I don't really want to manage more than 6-7 cities, and with the Maya, this is going to be much more viable than it used to be.
The combat bonus is also good. It is clearly aimed at a defensive playstyle, and is going to be especially nice in the early game, to help withstand barbarian raids and early rushes.

Overall, I think this is a good ability in terms of strength (especially on smaller maps), and a great one in terms of fitting my personal preferences.


Civilization Ability - Mayab
No extra housing from fresh water or coast. Farms provide an additional +1 housing (for a total 1.5) and +1 gold.
+1 amenity for every luxury adjacent to the city center.


Once again, this is really interesting. Even though it is not that hard to find fresh water, this is pretty darn good if you want large cities, and I think it interacts well enough with the Leader Ability, as it gives you more freedom in how you place your city centers. In terms of yields, comparing a fresh water city to a Mayan city: with two farms, the fresh water city is gets 6 housing (2 base + 3 fresh water +1 farms), as well as the regular food. The Mayan city gets 5 housing (2 base + 3 farms), as well as an additional +2 gold. I think this is roughly the break even point. With 3 farms, the Mayan city is clearly ahead with 6.5 housing (vs. 5.5), and +3 gold. The advantage will continue growing with more farms, and I can't really think of many situations where my cities will have less than 3 farms. Of course, this does mean you will need to get your farms going early.
The extra amenity is a nice little synergy, and I particularly like that you will get an amenity just for being adjacent to the resource, no improvement needed.

Very nice ability overall.


Unique Unit - Hul'che
Replaces the Archer. 28 base strength (vs 25 for the regular Archer). An additional +5 versus wounded opponents.

I do wonder what the cost is going to be, but regardless, chances are this is going to be a top 10 UU at least. For one thing, it is an Archer replacement. Archers are already great, and you are going to build them anyway. I don't think this will quite match the amazing Pitati Archer, but the extra combat strength is going to be noticable, as it all adds up. Worst case scenario is +3 strength, but as soon as the target unit is wounded, that goes up to +8. Of course, the real horror happens when you try to invade the Mayans, and find that their Archers are hitting you with +13 strength, just 2 points below the power of a Crossbowman.

This is another good one.


Unique Infrastructure - Observatory
Campus replacement. Reduced cost, major adjacency for plantations and the Pamukkale natural wonder, minor adjacency for farms and districts, regular adjacency for Government Plaza. No adjacency for mountains, reefs, fissures and rainforest.

In terms of pure strength, this is probably the Mayan's greatest asset, just by being a half cost Campus. The natural comparison here is the Korea's Seowon. Is this equally good? Hard to tell for sure. The Seowon has a maximum adjacency of +4, and an average adjacency not far below that. Placement can be a bit awkward, as you will be trying to avoid touching other districts, but overall the Seowon is incredibly consistent, and very, very good. The Observatory, I think, is going to be a close rival. I think the average adjacency will end up in a similar area, possibly a bit lower. The missing adjacencies for mountains is going to limit its potential a bit, especially in the early game, but as long as you have a plantation or two, getting your Observatories to 3-5 should not be too hard.

I do think the Seowon is a bit better, but being a slightly worse version of the best Unique District in the game is still pretty darn good. I also think I like the adjacency rules for this one better. It requires a bit of planning, but it is not going to be too hard to make it work.


Final verdict
Gathering Storm did have some great and unique civ designs, and it looks like they are continuing that trend. Tall is still underpowered in Civ 6, but with the Mayans, it becomes a great deal more viable. All of the Mayan uniques are at the very least pretty good, and there are some clever synergies between them. They have their own versions of the best Unique District and the best Unique Unit in the game, and while the Mayan versions are probably a bit less powerful, they are still great, and it's the same civ having both of them.

I'm looking forward to this one. Will it replace the Inca as my favorite civ?

A civ with an early unit that has a bonus vs wounded units is not necessarily for a peaceful player.
 
A civ with an early unit that has a bonus vs wounded units is not necessarily for a peaceful player.
I'm not an "optimal" player so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but my assessment would be that the Maya are better suited for defensive war than offensive.
 
There is some hope these animations are placeholders. One can assume the First Look wasn't made yesterday, and it wouldn't be the first time the leader changed between First Look and release.

Teddy's face is the first that comes to mind. Are there any other examples though where the animations, and leaders entire body frame, have been completely reskinned. I don't remember any as bad as this.
 
I think the Maya will have serious housing problems lategame. You're encouraged to tightly pack your cities, so your districts will take up a lot of available room, so you won't have much room for farms to make up for the lack of fresh water. Neighborhoods may help, but... I'm not building them unless they nerf partisans.

I wonder if this civ will get housing from aqueducts?

You don't have to pack them tightly. If you want a glorious empire, don't pack them tightly. Every lost farm is a waste.
 
I'm not an "optimal" player so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but my assessment would be that the Maya are better suited for defensive war than offensive.

In war, the best offense is a good defense, and the best defense is a good offense.
 
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