[NFP] Maya First Look

[bengalryan9]

Not Chichen Itza, ironically; the Maya are going to want to clear cut their jungles. If the stars align for them, the Maya could benefit from Pyramids, Jebel Barka, and Great Bath. Gunning for the Hanging Gardens and Angkor Wat seems like a no-brainer for the Maya.


Both Colosseum and Temple of Artemis would seem to synergize well with the Maya--though every Camp the Maya have is one Plantation they don't have.

Jungle plantations (bananas, cocoa, dyes, etc) benefit from Chichen Itza, don't they?

 

[Zaarin]

One thing I love about this game is that wonders almost never synergize best with the civilization that actually built them.

Angkor Wat goes with Khmer reasonably well--but they were literally released together. University of Sankore and Mali check out. But yeah, any other I can think of is just a good wonder for anybody--like Apadana, Forbidden City, or Pyramids. (Machu Picchu is a mixed case. Generally speaking, as the Inca you want the hills around your mountains free for Terrace Farms, but since you are in the mountains anyway...)

Banana plantations benefit from Chichen Itza, don't they? If any of the new resources are also jungle plantations it might be worth building in certain cases.

You'd have to have a lot of Bananas and other Jungle Plantations like Chocolate in one city to make that pay off. Not to say it couldn't happen, but I'd expect it to be an edge case.

 

[bengalryan9]

You'd have to have a lot of Bananas and other Jungle Plantations like Chocolate in one city to make that pay off. Not to say it couldn't happen, but I'd expect it to be an edge case.

Agreed, but it *can* happen, especially if they have some type of plantation starting bias to help boost their observatory use. We shall see!

 

[AntSou]

Well, they still need production. They can't just raze everything to build farms.

 

[Navelgazer]

Was watching some random world wonder tier last and was wondering - what wonders might go best with Maya? With tightly packed cities it sounds like Colosseum is good. I've never built Temple of Artemis in my life, but it seems like it could be useful? I don't know.

If it was PotatoMcWhiskey's World Wonder tier list, I was watching this last night as well!

Pyramids, Colosseum, and Jebel Berkal are the three most obvious choices, but those are three of the most universally great wonders in the game. Also Oracle in whatever city you manage to get the best Observatory built in (and in which you will place Pingala, of course.) Jebel might seem a little off-strategy but with an ancient UU and an ancient UD, I picture a pretty likely classical-era golden age for Maya. I think a strategy that aims for faith generation and Monumentality will be worthwhile if at all feasible, which it might not be at higher difficulties (I like Divine Spark here to get a religion up and running and pop more Great Scientists, though City Patron Goddess would work very well for her as well, and Goddess of Festivals could shore up your culture game while you focus on the beakers.)

Now, and this will be a matter of debate to be sure, but I think that going with Ancestral Hall for Maya will have benefits, but not be as long-run good for them as going with Audience Chamber. It'll take some playing around with, but considering the limited number of cities, the close-knitness of the empire making the loyalty malus kind of a wash, and the housing bonus gained from cities with governors, I think this will be a chance for Audience Chamber to finally shine.

I should add that as good as Pyramids will be, they'll be tricky in a very crowded ancient era for Maya.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Really, any wonder that produces a lot of base yields, as opposed to percentage yields, will synergize well with Lady Six Sky's leader ability.

Ever 1 yield in your inner cities becomes 1.1 yield. While other civs pursue more narrow strategies, the Maya are really all about raw numbers above all else.

 

[Navelgazer]

I will say that I predict that Great Library will be fool's gold for Maya (offering little they couldn't get on their own while taking up production at a crucial time) while Oxford will be perfect for them (GL will still be great if you can get it, but unless you're in a game with Korea, Scotland, China and Sumer, probably unnecessary.)

 

[Sostratus]

Well, they still need production. They can't just raze everything to build farms.

The good news is jungle chops give some hammers and the plains underneath jungles give a hammer too. Plains farmers rise up!

 

[Pietato]

Interesting. A civ which gets weaker as the map gets bigger.

 

[Thormodr]

Some good and some bad that will need to be gameplay tested to see the true power of the Civ, IMHO.

I have enjoyed playing the Maya in previous iterations of the game and I find their culture and history fascinating.

I like the fact that they tried to imitate the Mayan City State structure with the capital and cities radiating out around it.
Unfortunately, you are going to end up with a weaker capital and stronger secondary cities which doesn’t make sense. If that would have happened historically, that City State would not have lasted long before it was subjugated. Perhaps they need to buff the Capital, somehow.

I like that farms will be important as in my games, I usually build a lot of them. Maybe not the best gameplay move but I like the look ascetically.
It is nice to be freed from settling on rivers but that means that you won’t be able to build a water mill so if you get some rice or wheat, they will not be as good as they can be. Perhaps that is my gaming OCD but it bothers me.

I don’t mind the -15% malus for cities outside of the 6 tile range of the capital. It’s not that crippling and it is a darn sight better than the horrendous corruption mechanic in Civ III. Lol.

The unique unit is excellent and I do like playing a turtle game from time to time.

The observatory is also excellent. While not as strong as Korea’s Seowon, it’s still powerful. I find Korea horribly dull to play so it’s nice to be able to have a more interesting alternative. Would have been interesting to get an interaction with Holy Sites, though.

I got a distinct A Minotaur feeling when I watched the animation. I do hope they change that. Not a deal breaking for me as I play a fair bit on my iPad and there are no animations for that version, but I think if the season pass is going to be $40 for the PC, they can do better than that.

I like the new resources. Corn/Maize is cool and I am very happy to see Honey. I love bees and honey. Now they just need to bring back Peat from Civ II.

All in all, I am pleased with the Maya. I think they’ll be very interesting to play and aesthetically, one of the best. With their colour scheme and farms covering the countryside, it’ll look beautiful.

 

[Bug Repellent]

Well, they still need production. They can't just raze everything to build farms.

I really don't understand why people think Maya needs farms everywhere. To make up for the -3 housing from water, each Mayan city needs two IDLE farms. That's it. Beyond that, build mines, lumber mills, etc as you would with any other civ. And no, you don't need farms around Observatories. Put other districts as they have the same adjacency bonus. Amenities will limit your max pop for your cities, not housing or food.

 

[Kwami]

And the other way round... Any cities she captures will need builders ASAP as the immedately find themselves over the housing cap

Nah, probably not. At least, not if you're playing against the AI. The AI loves to build farms everywhere.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Hi guys, I'm new here. Been playing Civ 6 since the last Steam summer sale and kinda love it. But I'm bad at it. But I'm excited for this.

Was watching some random world wonder tier last and was wondering - what wonders might go best with Maya? With tightly packed cities it sounds like Colosseum is good. I've never built Temple of Artemis in my life, but it seems like it could be useful? I don't know.

Hi, here is the list:
Core ones:
Pyramids: you will need workers.
Colosseum: very good wonder matching your city planning and hand help with your big cites
Oxford University to get +10% Science
Temple of Artemis - works nice with your plantations

Optional you may also consider:
Forbidden Palace (always good), Great Zimbabwe (depend on the bias), Eiffel Tower (if you want to start building your Neiborhoods districts), Ruhr Valley (if you will have enough hills and mines in a city - production and great engineers will be needed in science victory) last but not least: Kilwa Kisiwani and Mausoleum of Halicarnassus - not because are not good, but because you may have a problem with coastal titles. But I think Kilwa alone is worth to grab at least one coastal title especially if you manage to have 2 science and 2 productions suzerains each)

 

[AntSou]

What map sizes are you people playing? I usually have 6-8 cities on standard maps by the industrial age, and any cities after that are land grabs on desert and tundra for stratregic resources. I do just finy on deity, so I'm a bit confused by people who say 15-20 cities are a must.

The way I see it I'll get +15% yields on essentially all of my cities, +10% yields on all my cities by maxing amenities and rushing colosseum. By the time I need more cities beyond 6 tiles I've already won the game...

You're not gonna have +6 campuses with the Mayans. You'd be fortunate to even get +4. There'll be a lot of times when you simply don't have plantation resources in your lands.

I'm not sure which games are you playing where plantations are rare. And it seems pretty evident they'll get starting bias towards them.

 

[Casworon]

I think it depends on your approach to playing the game. 6-8 Cities on standard maps can beat deity fine.

But if you are increasing the challenge by trying to get a victory as fast as possible, 15-20 cities will get there faster than 6-8.

My fastest non-domination victory so far was a Rome game where i never stopped building settlers and conquering cities. Ended up getting my fastest science victory ever

 

[AntSou]

I think +3 Amenities per luxury might improve the game. You'd still be able to be expansionist, but you'd be required to prioritise entertainment complexes, which are pretty underwhelming atm unless you're playing with sparse resources.

So in your example above, the need for EC would slow down your construction of campuses.

It would still be nowhere near as restrictive as happiness in Civ 5 since nothing stops you from successfully expanding, but there should be better opportunity costs.

Edit: Another approach is to increase the yield bonus in Ecstatic cities.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I really don't understand why people think Maya needs farms everywhere. To make up for the -3 housing from water, each Mayan city needs two IDLE farms. That's it. Beyond that, build mines, lumber mills, etc as you would with any other civ. And no, you don't need farms around Observatories. Put other districts as they have the same adjacency bonus. Amenities will limit your max pop for your cities, not housing or food.

I don't think I have ever been in a situation in which amenties is the limitation on city growth, for me it is either housing or food with housing being more the limitation early game and food being more the limitation late game.Also you do want farms to be next to each other as much as possible to maximize their food production. With feudalism you can get up to +4 food from a farm and with replaceable part you can get up to +7 food from a farm.

 

[IvoryPavane]

I think +3 Amenities per luxury might improve the game. You'd still be able to be expansionist, but you'd be required to prioritise entertainment complexes, which are pretty underwhelming atm unless you're playing with sparse resources.

So in your example above, the need for EC would slow down your construction of campuses.

It would still be nowhere near as restrictive as happiness in Civ 5 since nothing stops you from successfully expanding, but there should be better opportunity costs.

Edit: Another approach is to increase the yield bonus in Ecstatic cities.

Honestly, both would pretty good!

Give more support to talk cities with an extra 5% ecstatic bonus and maybe more from population, and making it slightly more difficult to expand. (Though my Phoenicia would cry haha)

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Here you can see how a large farmland can look like.

Spoiler :

 

[Lord Lakely]

Well, they still need production. They can't just raze everything to build farms.

Internal Trade and production policy cards can alleviate that until you can build lumber mills.