[NFP] Maya First Look

[Casworon]

In Civ 5 Ethiopia was a turtle civ with a crazy home defense buff. I wonder if they will be similar to Maya in that regard? Kind of like how Persia and Scythia are kinda like a combo.

That's a good point. Increased combat power near the capital was one of Ethiopia's things in Civ v. At-least for its unique unit. Will be interesting seeing what they do with the civ now it looks like the Maya have taken the defense turtle crown

 

[ehecatzin]

Simply making some buildings provide yield per pop instead of flat yields could do it. For example, if libraries gave 1 science plus an additional 0.2 per pop. Just throwing out numbers here, but that could make tall far more appealing than wide.

I'd love it if they went back and make sure more districts have different paths to choose from just like the government district does, allow for more city specialization or being able to push for tall or wide.

 

[Bibor]

The settle "penalty" is negated by an Aqueduct, obviously, which actually rises in significance for Maya.
I'm liking the very flexible city placement style, although every city now requires a worker (ancestral hall or otherwise).

 

[kryat]

I'd love it if they went back and make sure more districts have different paths to choose from just like the government district does, allow for more city specialization or being able to push for tall or wide.

This is perhaps the best suggestion I’ve heard on how to better approach making the game. Not just tall/wide, but more options throughout. I like having to pick between a very small handful of options that each have a massive impact.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

It is interesting that people call Maya a tall civ when the civ basically is anti tall, pack as many cities as possible inside a very small area which naturally lead to smaller cities. An alternative is to ignore inner cities and settle 6 tiles from capital so the capital can work all inner tiles. As Maya if you can get 20 farms per city they will have 30 housing or more, so if large cities are buffed, this may be the prefered way to play the Maya.

 

[Navelgazer]

It didn't occur to me until now that if an opponent does manage to get through Lady Six Sky's turbo-archers and take one of her cities, it'll be useless for anything but razing, most likely. The housing cap will plummet as it changes hands, and the Observatory will revert to a Campus built with zero regard to Campus placement.

 

[Leucarum]

It didn't occur to me until now that if an opponent does manage to get through Lady Six Sky's turbo-archers and take one of her cities, it'll be useless for anything but razing, most likely. The housing cap will plummet as it changes hands, and the Observatory will revert to a Campus built with zero regard to Campus placement.

And the other way round... Any cities she captures will need builders ASAP as the immedately find themselves over the housing cap

 

[UWHabs]

It is interesting that people call Maya a tall civ when the civ basically is anti tall, pack as many cities as possible inside a very small area which naturally lead to smaller cities. An alternative is to ignore inner cities and settle 6 tiles from capital so the capital can work all inner tiles. As Maya if you can get 20 farms per city they will have 30 housing or more, so if large cities are buffed, this may be the prefered way to play the Maya.

I think they have a slightly unique opportunity in that you could certainly play them very tall, or you can play them with like a compact city sprawl.

Basically, anything more than about 4 farms and you have more housing than the base, so if you give a city space to have a sprawling farmland, they can certainly create some really large cities that can really benefit from increased yields.

But on the other hand, you can also pack in cities as close as possible, and try to spam as many high-adjacency observatories as possible to make use of plantation clusters, and that's a perfectly viable strategy for them as well.

 

[DWilson]

Maybe the suzerainity bonus is being changed? I think it's generally looked upon as being one of the weaker suzerain bonuses just because it's something you'd hate to make use of only to lose later on.

I've always loved it, but I can see why people felt it was risky.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

I'd love it if they went back and make sure more districts have different paths to choose from just like the government district does, allow for more city specialization or being able to push for tall or wide.

Yeah I would have liked it if there were options within the districts as well more than just barracks or stable, but where those paths changed the direction of the city. Where they all have some secondary effect beyond their baselines. Like farmer's market vs marketplace where one boosts internal trade route food production to/from city the other gives gold for international routes. Bank vs Co-Op one generates more money based on treasury the other increases border or pop growth, etc.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I think all they need to do to make tall a viable playstyle is bring specialists back in a meaningful way. and improve great people somewhat, especially giving us great prophets all through the game, but without the ability to found a religion, rather with the ability to make a tile improvement or a relic or something similiar. It would make religion more competitive which is desperately needed, and would make the game less frustrating. I loved the ability to use great people for tile improvements and it would certainly help those huge tall cities with flat grassland or non-farmable tiles.

 

[KayAU]

It amuses me how inevitably the discussion for any new first look swings from “OMG SO OPPPP!!!!” to “Worse than Georgia!” in about a day’s time.

This is predictable, yes, especially for any civ which emphasizes an unorthodox playstyle.

As always, it is impossible to say how powerful the new civ is until we get to try it in practice and also get to know what other changes are made to the game. That said, I suspect the Mayan civilization will be an above average civ at worst. The civ and leader abilities are debatable. I think they are good, but they do have both bonuses and maluses, so I can understand why some might think they are not necessarily beneficial.

The unique unit and unique infrastructure, however, I think are definitely very powerful. Starting with the unique unit, it's an improved version of a unit which is already great, both for defence and offence. The Hul'che will do everything an Archer can, but better. The only thing which could sink it is cost, but seing how my first Archers are typically acquired as cheap upgrades for Slingers, and the Mayans do get some extra gold, I would be surprised if this was a problem. I do understand that it doesn't compare favorably to the Pitati Archer, but that is broadly considered to be the best unique unit in the entire game. You can be worse than the Pitati Archer, and stil be very, very good.

As for the Observatory, I feel like I've had the same discussion about the Seowon to which it is being compared. Some criticized it for being capped at "just" +4, while reminiscing about their best Campus placements from previous games. It is true that you can indeed get some amazing adjacencies for regular Campuses, especially with certain civs like the Dutch, but I get the sense that people overestimate what their average adjacency is. I also think many underestimate the value of just having a half price Campus. I think it is going to be fairly easy to get a minimum adjacency of +3 for your Observatories, with a fair number reaching +4, and some going to +5. That would give it an average adjacency below that of the Seowon, but again, we are comparing it to what is arguably the best unique district in the game.

Of course, power isn't really the most important thing. What I'm most excited about when it comes to the Mayans, is the unique playstyle they incentivize. Second comes the theme and flavor.

 

[TeddyMain]

Sorry for diverging away from the main discussion, but it sounds like the Mayan theme may be a Medieval Version of the Mayan folk song Xtoles.

I could be wrong tho, its just that they sound very similar in terms of structure.

 

[SirMediocrity]

Sorry for diverging away from the main discussion, but it sounds like the Mayan theme may be a Medieval Version of the Mayan folk song Xtoles.

I could be wrong tho, its just that they sound very similar in terms of structure.

There is a video of Xtoles here:

The singing after 3:00 sounds extremely similar to the music in the first look vid.

EDIT: After listening to these back to back several times, I'm certain that Xtoles is the Mayan theme. They sound exactly the same in many parts.

 

[Morningcalm]

Sorry for diverging away from the main discussion, but it sounds like the Mayan theme may be a Medieval Version of the Mayan folk song Xtoles.

I could be wrong tho, its just that they sound very similar in terms of structure.

I think you may be right! Nice find!

 

[Shibooyeah]

Hi guys, I'm new here. Been playing Civ 6 since the last Steam summer sale and kinda love it. But I'm bad at it. But I'm excited for this.

Was watching some random world wonder tier last and was wondering - what wonders might go best with Maya? With tightly packed cities it sounds like Colosseum is good. I've never built Temple of Artemis in my life, but it seems like it could be useful? I don't know.

 

[The Highwayman]

@Shibooyeah Pyramids come to mind. Builder charges will be even more crucial for the Mayans. However, the Pyramids are the best wonder in the game so one could say this no matter what. I would say wonders with regional effects would synergize with Mayans above all. Colosseum and Jebel in particular.

 

[Zaarin]

Was watching some random world wonder tier last and was wondering - what wonders might go best with Maya?

Not Chichen Itza, ironically; the Maya are going to want to clear cut their jungles. If the stars align for them, the Maya could benefit from Pyramids, Jebel Barka, and Great Bath. Gunning for the Hanging Gardens and Angkor Wat seems like a no-brainer for the Maya.

With tightly packed cities it sounds like Colosseum is good. I've never built Temple of Artemis in my life, but it seems like it could be useful?

Both Colosseum and Temple of Artemis would seem to synergize well with the Maya--though every Camp the Maya have is one Plantation they don't have.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Jebel would be fun

 

[Zaarin]

I made the mistake of glancing at the Steam comments on the First Look. Someone there wants Huayna Capac to lead the Maya.