Mayor problems for team Roadkill

[CreeDakota]

EeK. Killroyan and I had to fight a war for around 1000 years in SGOTM14 under horrible (-15 angry faces!) AP pressure. It was rough. And that was on a map with alot of happy and awesome land.

To alleviate the villian unhappiness you have to vote for an AP resolution that passes. I agree a Defy probably wasnt worth it, we could have redeclared in 10 turns I believe. Revolting to jewish gives us +1 happy in every city which could help a bit, plus double the votes in the next election.

Are we having war success at least?

I agree, monarchy wont help much since we need the units on the front anyway. Whip all the angry bastards away and let us tech on just our mayors.

 

[Killroyan]

Changing to Monarchy we will need at least 3 units in each city to counter representation so I don't think it is worth it. The succession game Cree is talking about was indeed fun with the -15 happy faces lol. Good thing we had all happy resources there, but over here....... I say we whip the bastards and get some more units/infra out.

I thought we had captured the AP. Learning something new because it appears England still remained the pope of this thing?

 

[LKendter]

Owning the AP *only* guarantees us to be one of the leaders voted on.

 

[Killroyan]

Lets make sure then we get leader with the next vote (we need population and more AP religion) so we can forget about the 5 unhappies

 

[pholkhero]

short report as i'm running out the door in a few mins...

whipped out the unhappies ~ it was mostly in istanbul anyway. captured london, and our army's on the way nw to go after more english cities. we're down to about -9 or so gpt at 0% so i dont know that we need anymore units.

feudalism came in, and i went w/civil service. figured bureacracy will be nice with our capital. we've got two GPs with the army now (london didn't have any so i settled a GG ~ figured it would be a nice producion city)

i think that's it.

 

[LKendter]

Glad to see we got London. More progress vs. England. Once we take the city putting culture pressure on it, we should have another income city.

We can have Istanbul on the 2 cottages for now. It gives us a lot of cash, and no reason to grow more red faces.
I wonder if something happened when I loaded the game as the income Pholk mentioned matches working the two cottages.

Did we get hit with rioting cities? Not sure how we lost the deer being used by Konya.

We have two mystery cities of England to locate. We have a hint of one west of London still seeing English borders. No clue where the other one is.

We can build the Heroic Epic - my vote is for Ankara. We have more wars coming up, so a strong military city would be good.

I think we need to accept whatever the next AP vote is. Istanbul's size hurts our wonder production, and while we are doing good vs. England GP will getting harder to get as the game goes on.


Cree (on deck)
Lkendter
Pholkhereo (just played)
Killroyan (up)

 

[CreeDakota]

london would be good as a commerce city, Vicky put Academy there.

I vote Bursa for Heroic Epic.

I would add a specialist to Istanbul. Shave some Turns off the next GPerson so we can keep up the military pressure on England.

We should made some resource trades. Gems to WvOrange for Gold per turn and Stone to Sury for Furs and more Gold per turn. Remember to cancel the stone if we unlock a wonder that needs it.

I recommend we switch back to 100% espionage on Darius and build another Spy. We are having crappy luck with our spies but still we are making enough EPs to easily get a tech off of him every 30 turns or so.

Should we end the war with China? He will make PEace for 75 gold. Saladin ended the war allready.

Aeshtics is no longer monopoly. perhaps trade it to Sal or WvO?

 

[Killroyan]

I will play a short turnset tonight. Things are shaping up. I will look into the resource trades and tech trades. 100% on Darius sounds right to me to get another tech.

I guess China is asking 75 gold or is he offering? Crosses thumbs that he is offering I am anxious to see in what state we are.

 

[Killroyan]

Ok, things are shaping up. I set research full to bureau. I press enter and a catapult attacks our stack. It retreats.

Turn 1: I send in a spearman at 85% odds against the damage catapult and of course dies without scratching the cat. Send in an axe and kill the cat but the axeman is down to 1,6. Grmblll, seriously?

Turn 2: Trade aesthetics to Willem for mono and 70 gold. Trade it to Sal and 160 gold for code of laws. I notice we don't have a religion yet so no hammer bonus? Do we want to become Jewish?

Turn 4: Nottingham is ours at the cost of 2 axemen and a cat.

I settle the great scientist there because it can become a really good science city. Victoria is down to 3 cities at the border of the map.

Trade gems to Willem for 7 golf if I am not mistaken.
Also trade stone to Sury for 7 gold and furs. Takes care of our red faces a bit.
I sell aest to Darius for 70 gold who only needs 2 more turns for it.
I hire a GE in the capitol to boost GP growth.

Turn 5: We get the stop the war vote against Victoria. I think long about this and just vote no instead of defy. All our cities are Jewish so I hope we will have enough votes. Also I am not in the mood for 10 angries. On the other hand if we want to switch to Jewish then we can become best buddies with the Dutch and the English. Last reason is that the English are down to the last 3 cities who are craptacular and at the border so they will have minimum impact there. I really do not want them and I want to focus more on the inner cities who are 10x times more important.

Turn 6: The war horns sound and the war is over. I heal our stack at Nottingham. Willem has 70 votes over our 40. Didn't expect that.

Turn 9: I use our war money for Bureau and finish it. Select paper next as all other important techs are out or are getting researched. Victoria becomes the vasal of the dutch.

Now on to the future. I redirect all spy points to Darius. Darius will have machinery in 6 turns. I select a spy in Ankara who can travel to Bactra, stay there 3 turns and steal it. With the spy points we can look into the persian cities.

Darius has 13 cities and is our biggest advisary. He also has 2 cities with a settled GP in it. Both cities we really want.

So my proposition is, lets become jewish and butter up to Victoria and Willem so we have a good pact there. Get the war machine going and gear up for Persia. If we steal machinery we can even bribe Saladin into a war with Darius. We can get 2 cities straight away with our 2 GP's (1 coming up in a couple of turns in the capitol) and 2 more from the settled GP's. Susa will have another GP soon too and maybe it will be settled also.

Last 2 things:

We are still at war with China. We can get peace at the cost of 75 gold but it could open some interesting trading options. We can also do a garage sale of literature to get some extra cash.

I haven't revolted yet but this is the moment if you ask me. I would go Bureau and OR and Jewish.

View attachment Mayor - Suleiman AD-0920.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[LKendter]

I am surprised we didn't sign after the vote came up for peace with England. Any concessions may have helped us.


While Istanbul is not a strong city for it, I still vote for revolt to bureaucracy. Building more wonders for GP is critical to win this. The shield output from the city is horrid at the moment, but once we can grow up again it will recover. OR isn't great for us, but I also vote for that to add even more to Istanbul's multipliers.


I am again going to suggest Heroic Epic in Ankara. We need a stronger military city. 14 turns isn't long at all to speed up military builds.


London needs culture builds. We are getting choked already by English culture. I don't want another Konya. We can't lose captured cities, but if it is in constant revolt it will be useless to us.

 

[LKendter]

I really don't understand the farmed tundra by Canterbury. It doesn't add chained irrigation anywhere, and IMO the only thing more horrid then an irrigated plains tiles is and irrigated tundra. We are better off not growing our cities with the increased maintenance cost in my opinion.


We still only clear +10 a turn at 0% science. We don't have a lot of spare cash. We need to make market in York, and spreading Christianity high priorities. These two will greatly help the economy. It is going to hit the point of impossible to expand if we can't keep the economy improving.


The bad news with stopping the English war is we don't control the marble, and English culture is choking us. Nottingham also needs to make culture a priority. That marble is very important to our wonder building plans. It will shrink until borders expand, so please whip the monastery ASAP.

 

[LKendter]

Long term I want to kill England and the Dutch. It will set us up with really nice borders. Despite that I am willing to revolt to Jewish. We need more AP votes above all. That alone IMO justifies the future headaches fighting common religion people.
I also notice we are NOT getting any bonus for our Jewish buildings. Is this because we captured the AP and broke the bonus?
Short-term I agree to hit Persia next. Iron at Bactra alone justifies it. Long term we need iron to keep the war machine going.


My vote is to build Sistine Chapel next. With going Jewish we gain +2 for our specialists, and +5 for Jewish buildings. Getting cities to third and fourth rings in culture will cut the total number of GP we need to win.


Cree (up)
Lkendter (on deck)
Pholkhereo
Killroyan (just played)

 

[Killroyan]

I so agree on SC when we hit the marble wit nothingham. And now I realize that that might be hard. England culture is choking indeed.

I noticed the same thing with the jewish buildings. Strange. Never experienced it.

As I said I didn't expect the whole dutch land to be jewish. They had almost twice the votes we have. Missed the fact that a lot of our cities are size 1. But as I said, defying another time would rack us up to 10 angries and it would choke all the cities we have. So not an option. I didn't sign peace as I expected that the vote would be just NO because of our 10 cities being Jewish. My bad there.

 

[CreeDakota]

Ok here is my play plan:

AP:

I dont know why our AP hammers are gone either. But we have an election vote in two turns. I suggest we vote for WvO for the diplo bonus. He will win anyway. Plus I think if we vote for something that passes then our hammers may come back?

Tech: Paper

Civics: Revolt to Rep/Buero/Slavery/Decentral/OR. We gain around 5 commerce per turn even after the higher civics cost, plus around 7 hammers in capital. OR gives us a diplo bonus with Sury but more importantly it lets us spread missionaries without burning turns on monastaries. Important for spreading christianity. Two turns of Anarchy. We can add Judaism latter if needed.

Trades: CS + Literture to Sal 4 Calender, he almost has CS anyway. We could also trade CS+lit to WvO for Machinery and some gold. but I am considering to not do that with the hope we can steal machinery from persia in 6 turns and instead trade for engineering. We can also steal HBriding from Persia.

Builds:

Istanbul-finish NE>jewish monastery>....not too sure...>univerisy of Sankore once paper is done.

I am not very excited about building Sistine chapel without marble...i think close to 50 turns to build that. SC is alot more valuable if we go Jewish to fight english and dutch culture but I suspect we will solve that problem with some Janissaries later anyway.

Edrine-Dump Synagogue, very expensive w/o bonus and I dont think we will gain tiles with it anyway. I would likley just build units Here while growing but we could build a library to unlock more specialist slots. Along time ago i was imaginig this city trying to pop a great person or two for us.

Ankara-Finish spy, then another spy then Units.

Bursa-Finish Longbow, the HEpic. Longterm Ankara may be better HE city but not until we get Darius' city next to it. Bursa is good too as a military city. I could easily flop this if people think Ankara is better.

Konya-finish library, I think this is a leftover from when Konya was having culture press. I don't really like this build but it has alot of hammers already invested so away we go. I will try and get some workers over there to build some farms so it can eventually work the gem mines.

Canterbury-stay on Christ missionaries for awhile, market next turnset maybe

York-Jew monastery, Jew temple, then market

London-Whip in hamman then Jewish temple. I know this city has a Great General settled in it but I dont think it can afford to build units for awhile with threat of English culture so I would delay barracks.

Nothingham-Needs workers bad. Jewish religious buildings for culture and hammers.

Diplomacy: I will try and end the War versus China...I see little gain in staying in the war without a diplo benefit.

The question is when to war with Darius? We have one GP now, and another from Istanbul in 5 turns. Add in the few settled specialists in Darius' cities and we can take 5-6 cities from the Great People aspect. But Is our military ready. I think not quite. Around 5 turns to get our stack in positon plus We likely need a few more units, SO I recommend no War for around 10 turns or Lkendter's turnset.

Comments please!

 

[Killroyan]

I agree on almost everything if I have everything right in my mind. End the war against China. See if we can get more techs from him then using Lit and CS. Revolt straight away if you ask me and redirect the troops to get ready for Darius. We need at least a build up of 10 turns to get stuff going. I would even whip the hindu temple first in London and start on the monastery there. Also build an archer or 2 in the city next to him to get enough troops in London so it doesn't flip that easily. Good thing that London is actually quite strong so it won't have much problems building stuff.

We should be able to conquer about 5 cities from Darius (we will get another GG in the upcoming war) at least, which will cripple him incredible. He is the most dangerous one right now out there.

So lets gear up for war. Cheers.

 

[LKendter]

I dont know why our AP hammers are gone either. But we have an election vote in two turns. I suggest we vote for WvO for the diplo bonus. He will win anyway. Plus I think if we vote for something that passes then our hammers may come back?

I am willing to do this as a *one* time vote.
I have no idea about the hammers coming back.
I really want us to win the AP vote long term. That way we can avoid those stop war resolutions showing up, as we don't propose them. However, we need to regrow our cities and gain a few cities before we can pull this off.

Civics: Revolt to Rep/Buero/Slavery/Decentral/OR. ...
We can add Judaism latter if needed.

I also want to be Jewish - going OR without a religion is a waste as we don't get the 25% building bonus. If we aren't willing to be Jewish, then I vote against OR.
I really want that 25% bonus to speed up wonder building - same reason I want Buer.

 

[LKendter]

I am not very excited about building Sistine chapel without marble...I think close to 50 turns to build that. SC is a lot more valuable if we go Jewish to fight English and Dutch culture but I suspect we will solve that problem with some Janissaries later anyway.

SC isn't about fighting English culture. It is about expanding our cities to third and fourth culture rings. The more cities that get those, the less GP we need to hit domination. As the game goes on GP are going to get much harder get more of. We need to find ways limit how many we need. SC is a way to do so.
Unless directly ordered by Killroyan SC will be under construction my turn set. I feel that strongly about it. It should save several GP during the game.
Plus it will save us a lot late game to get our new cities to at least third ring.

 

[Killroyan]

I want the SC too For all the reasons stated. Maybe just insert it at the capitol and let it go. There are still some chops available over there. The rest on military duty to get Darius.

Ps going jewish will also increase our own cultural output in our new cities if I am not mistaken.

 

[CreeDakota]

I am ok with going jewish. how do I revolt to jewish and OR at the same time?

 

[LKendter]

I don't think you can do both. IIRC you have to revolt religion and civics separate.
One more turn of anarchy, but much better AP control and more happy faces in our cities.