MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [civ3] Roster B

[AdrianE]

I have managed to play 6 turns so far. The rest will be tonight.

The Mori main cities fell easily. I only lost 3 cav. I wiped out the Takeda and only lost 1 cav. The home continent is ours.

I have not yet made peace with the Mori. They'll give me their 3 cities but won't give Nationalism. I can get economics and 1 city, IIRC. The Mori cities on the Han continent are untenable. Chogosabe has forces over there. We will lose them immediately when we attack Chogosabe. Do you still want cities over there?

The 3:1 lux deal expired with the Han. I did not renew it as per mad-bax's suggestion. However we have had some severe unrest problems as we only have 3 native luxuries.

Our economy is also in trouble. We need more marketplaces and banks in the FP core.

The Shimazu will trade with us. I can get 50gpt for some luxes. Should I make the trade? Or I can buy a lux from them.

I am assembling the Chogosabe invasion fleet. We'll have a go at them next. The first wave will have 12 cav, 6 muskets, 6 cannons. The Chogosabe have ironclads.

Gormdragan - you will have a hell of a battle ahead of you

 

[gormdragan]

Don't bother with Demo,Econ or Nationalism, they are not worth a dime IMHO.

 

[Peanut]

Techs - I agree with Gormdragan. These techs give no benefit apart from access to riflemen, but when we reach Rep Parts we get Infantry anyway. Besides, who but the meek needs defenders when rampaging through enemy territory ?

I would be inclined to deny luxuries to Shimazu, and I would be astounded if anyone would sell luxuries to us - we are just too big and nasty.

Perhaps we could trade a lux or two with Shimadzu for Medicine, and then immediately declare war. Our reputation is in the gutter already, we may as well trample it underfoot. We're going to crush them all anyway so who cares ? Or is this too unethical for a GOTM reprise ?

Gormdragan : Looks like your destiny lies in Chosogabe - fate decrees it's time to invade, again, just when it'll be your turn, again! So, best o' luck laddie - quick now up over the trench, through the barbed wire, and give'em a damn good thashing eh what ? We'll cheer you on from the command post, and hope that you've slaughtered 'em all before it's our turn again.

 

[gormdragan]

Let me know if pple are comfortable with the trade then war idea. I am cool with it, since our reputation is toast.

 

[AdrianE]

preturns - MM cities corrupt cities to each support taxmen

IBT - HAN wants to renew the 3 for 1 lux deal - I say no - some big cities riot

1160AD - lose 1 cav to take Yam. from Mori
I order some cheap cathedrals (only 80S) to deal with riots
Shimazu discovered Industry

1170AD - Han gets Industry
gift Magnetism to Korea hoping they'll learn Medicine - but its Nationalism - doh

1190AD - take last big Mori city

1200AD - declare war on Takeda, lose 1 Cav to reduce them to 1 city

1210AD - Takeda consigned to the dustbin of history
- rush another ship

1230AD - sign peace with Mori, declare war on Chogosabe.
land 28 units beside silk city and brace for the counter attack

IBT - no counter attack !!!!

1240AD - take silks city for no loss ! We now have Magellans. It seems Chogosabe's homeland is not well defended! I shuttle more troops in.

IBT - Chogsabe's counter attack is a solitary cav that kills a musket.

1250AD - we raze a large Chogosabe city for the loss of 1 Cav

Our strategic rail net now lets us traverse the home continent in 1 turn.

We have 106 workers, 39 Cav, 20 Cannon, 19 Muskets. Lots of cannons and cavalry on order.

Edit : electricity due in 2

Have fun Gormdragan. Chogsabe should not last long.

I built some cathedrals, marketplaces and courthouses in our core to improve production. A few of our core cities were in bad shape. The cheap cathedrals and sistines helped. I switched worker production to cannons and naval vessels.

>>save<<

Edit: fixed link file name

 

[Peanut]

Originally posted by AdrianE
>>save<<

Adrian : I suspect you mean This File - you may have just mistyped BC instead of AD. The SAV in this ZIP is 315K and the datestamp looks right so it is probably the right file ...

Corker of a session though eh ? Gormdragan must have scared them witless with the last invasion and they were all hiding under their beds at the thought of his imminent return. If the AI have Industrialisation then we might get Electricity ahead of them, with some trading possibilities ahead. Things are going well ... Go Gormdragan ...

 

[mad-bax]

Great Job Arian.

I agree that we now have enough workers. Now we need a navy and some (maybe 6 - 10) settlers. We will need a large navy to Transport workers to rail up for the canon.

The 3 for one lux deal with the Han is almost certainly why we got into tech trouble. Depriving them of these luxes will slow the research rate considerably.

We need a harbour to get the silks on line (unless the city we captured has one).

This game is getting better all the time.
Go gormdragan!

Will the AI trade a tech for luxes? I find that surprising. I am not concerned about our rep now anyway.

Our score is 3215 at 1250AD

 

[AdrianE]

Sorry about the file naming. Can someone double check that it is the correct save. I was really tired when I finished. I stayed up until 3am Sunday night and then raced home Monday after work to finish it. I might have uploaded the wrong file.

The silk city has Magellans, a harbour and a barracks which is why I kept it. The trade route is blocked by their cultural borders for the time being. We just need to take 1 city and we have a SOD outside that city. Then our homeland will have silks. Kimono's for all! I razed the other Chogosabe city I took. They have a significant culture lead on us.

What about the domination limit? How close are we?

Maybe we should try to keep our rep so we can ROP abuse the Han.

Nationalism might be useful for us. We could draft some riflemen to use for garrisons which would free up some regular units.

Mori, Chogosabe, and Korea all have Han continent outposts. We should be able to take them out fairly easily. Ours are not likely to last as the Chogosabe have at least one cavalry over there. We have nothing over there except undefended cities.

 

[mad-bax]

Peanuts link is correct Adrian.

Yes I looked at the save and the silks city is perfectly dealt with.

Now we have rails I don't see the big need for garrisons. We just need some arty and a few cav to deal with anything the AI throw at us. I know that as we switch governments that the happiness factor is important but we can just distribute the forces we have intelligently.

I would not make a big deal out of nationalism. Hoover will sort this game out.

 

[gormdragan]

This is a got it.

 

[Peanut]

If we are going to remain in Monarchy for the duration, then we just need garrisons in the productive core cities to keep the mobs at bay. They can be railed about at need if we are invaded. Invasions can be handled by a few cavs & cannons/ artillery kept at hand for defence.

Oops sorry about the Han 3-for-1 lux deal - we needed a happiness boost to keep us productive and I didn't think about the impact on the Han's research effort until later. Ah well, you live and learn ...

We may get a decent deal from the Han & Shimadzu for Electricity if they don't get it first. Also now that we have a good rail coverage for defence purposes, our worker gangs should now focus on our productive core cities.

 

[gormdragan]

Preturn:
Everything looks good, I start a worker production on corrupt cities.

Railroad = more production = more $$$ = easier defence = less units left in our continent = more units against AI

We have 106 workers now, that's way too little, we need 6 workers per plain tile rail per turn.

IBT:
Lost an exposed cav.

!!!! Shimizu landed 3+cav at the southmost end of our continent, may be a settler land group. Well, Shimizu is next after I destroy the Chosogebe anyway.

1255:
Ok we can confirm it's a settler group, 3cav+1settler.

Cannon bombard totally ineffective, 0/8. Try again next turn.

We have way too little cannons for a cav-vs-rifle war. I would aim for 50+ cannons.

1260:
We got Electricity, starts Medicine.

I don't believe this!!! Our cannons are firing blanks, 0/13.

Trade Shimazu electricity for medicine+industrialisation+71gpt+107g.
Trade Han electricity for Sanitation+3g+3gpt
Trade Koreans steam power+medicine for nationalism. (to keep them alive as long as possible).

Scientific Method due in 10 turns. (Koromo palace prebuild+great leader in Azuchi should get us TOE+Hoover).

Muroto is ours, +0g,+6slaves.

Switch some of our productions to factory 1st (we save back the turns later)

IBT:
our valiant musket dies to a chosogabe cav.
Our cav kills a chosogabe cav.

1265:
I have optimised Koromo to make palace 1 turn after we discover Scientific Method.

Troops massing at the Chosogabe Capital.

IBT:
2 sams+2cav lands against Kui, our outpost city on the Han Island. It's dead as a doodoo.

1270:
More troops massing

IBT:
Kui taken.

Elite cav dies to vet cav.

1275:
Matsumaya (Chosogabe's Capital) is ours at the cost of 3 cavs, I burnt it to the ground. +1g +6slaves.

IBT:
Shimazu settled on our continent (He is next anyway).

1280:
Azuchi makes Heroic Epic, starts factory.

Ise 2 founded.

Sukomo is razed, +6 slaves.

IBT:
lost a musket.

1285:
Troops mobilisation towards Kochi, Chosogabe's new capital.

IBT:
Korean+Mori embargo with us ended.

lost 1 elite cav.

1290:
More troop movement.

1295:
More troop movement.

1300:
Kochi is razed, +6slaves.

Koromo 2 founded.

1305:
Shimizu gets Woman's Suffage.

Ogaki 2 founded.

1310:
Niihama is razed, +6slaves.

Tokushima razed, +6slaves. We kicked out the Chosogabe out of their island.

1315:
TOE is ours.

Starting our occupation of Ex-Chosogabe Continent.
Handa 2 founded.
Yokkachi 2 founded.

Rush Hoover in Azuchi.

Replacement Parts in 12.

I am concentrating occupying the Chosogabe Continent b4 anyone else.

1320:
Azuchi makes Hoover.

Suzuka founded, we should make the F1 Grand Prix track.

IBT:
Korea+Chosogabe signs trade embargo against us.

1325:
Moriyama-ku 2 founded.
Kita-ku 2 founded.
Kasugai 2 founded.
Ichinomiya 2 founded.
Komaki 2 founded.

Ex-Chosogabe Continent is totally secured. All ours!!!

Summary
(1) All our cities are connected with rail except Koromo 2 and New Shanghai. We can concentrate on improving our cores.

(2) We have hydro plants and I ordered a number of factories in our cores.

(3) Chosogabe is totally ruined, having only scattered cities in the Han Continent. The next player can decide to eliminate them or sue for peace and go after Shimizus.

(4) We are researching Replacement Parts and allow inf/art and improved worker speeds, due in 10.

(5) We now have 174 workers, up from 106 workers 15 turns ago. Our continent is huge.

(6) Komaki 2 is our staging city of our offensive units, our ships are heading that way. Do remember to pick up our settler at New Handa. There are still some troops left in Takamatsu because I am worried of flips as Chosogabe has more culture than us. If the next player is comfortable, we can remove those too.

(7) Sorry guys I played 15 turns because i will be away until next year and I am not sure if this game would still be around by the time I am back.

(8) The score is 3681 at 1325 (3527 at 1300).

HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!!!!!!!!


The Save

 

[mad-bax]

Well done gormdragan.

Peanut: You are UP.
Yes I know it's Christmas So take your time.

You can play any number of turns between 5 and 15, but please remember to post the score at 1350AD: Thanks.


Haven't looked at the save yet. But the feeling in my water is that we need half a dozen more boats. The Shimazu are the obvious target next as they have two luxes. I don't think that will be too big a problem.

The Han are going to need some thought. I would like to limit their ability to make tanks. So lets devise a strategy for taking out any desert or tundra tiles they may have... unless we can see oil already. As I say U haven't looked at the save As another thought.. If we can't see oil yet, lets road any desert tiles we may have just on the off chance. I don't think we have any tundra.

We're doing great guys.

 

[Peanut]

Got it. Things are looking good, my fellow Generals.

 

[Peanut]

1325-1400AD : a conservative and perhaps uninspired turn at the wheel, or on the other hand a period of consolidation and foundation laying for a rapid conquest. You decide.

Pre-turn :
1) Let's get out of the Chosogabe war. We accept Anan for peace.

2) We do not have enough firepower to take on Shimadzu - he has RP and therefore artillery & Infantry.
We do not know if we have Oil. Transports would be handy for a faster invasion, and we need artillery & infantry to back up our Cavs before we get tanks. So aim to invade when we get RP and maybe Combustion. We may need Econ if we capture Smiths as well. We must land with a good defensive force ie. infantry. Cavalry & Artillery alone will be cut to pieces.

2) Technology : Pretty well everyone but us has Demo, Econ & maybe Comm. Han & Shimadzu have Esp, The Corp & RP. Aren't they clever. They may have Refining and/or Steel as well. But we have Sci, AT & Elec. We are 7 techs away from Tanks, they have two or more of those. If we get RP & Demo our workers will go faster ! Perhaps we can trade ? So :
a) Korea - Elec for Demo & Econ & 7gpt (every coin counts ...).
b) Mori has nothing to trade with.
c) Shimadzu offers 2 luxs for Sci Meth. Han offers one - he must be close to finishing it.
Shimadzu offers RP&86gpt for SciMeth, Han won't consider it. We take Shmiadzu's offer, then sell it Han for 168g+26gpt+WM.
d) We sell AT to Han for Spice+Incense+Gems+The Corp+33gpt. We sell AT to Shimadzu for Refining+19gpt.
e) We sell Electr to Han for Esp+Comm+84gpt (all the spare cashflow he has). We sell to Shimadzu for Furs, 3g+53gpt.

Everyone is cleaned out of cashflow. We have two sources of Oil and lots of rubber !
We have tech parity and are getting 381gpt from others.
Steel in 10 @max research. Revolt to go to Democracy for extra cash flow. Ok press enter ...

IBT nobody declares war !

1330 : Lots of happiness & WLTL day. We choose Democracy (for now ...).
A grateful populace expands our Palace. Steel now in 7 turns @max non-deficit.
Workers going like crazy now. Top 22 cities nearly all improved. Barracks switch in New Komaki to upgrade cannon.

IBT nothing.

1335 : Workers moved around. Barracks rushed in Komaki 2. Temples rushed in south to fill territory. Top 34 cities
terrain improved - we have 178 workers and micromanaging is taking forever. So start to auto-improve without changes. No new AI techs of interest.

IBT : nothing.

1340: Remote towns switched to wealth. more improvements.

IBT : nothing.

1345 : Remote towns switched to wealth. more improvements.

IBT : nothing

1350 : more working. Dud cities churning wealth. Dud citizens in science. Cruising on 3875 points.

IBT : nothing

1355 : We have improved so much that MM is now of much lesser importance. More workers automated (but leave existing alone).

IBT : nothing

1360 : Han finish Shakespeares. Steel > Combust @ max sustainable. Han got it last turn though.

IBT : nothing

1365 : boring - building cavs/artillery/infantry, finishing factories & banks & a few stock exchanges

IBT : nothing

1370 : boring - building cavs/artillery/infantry, finishing factories & banks & a few stock exchanges

IBT : Han and Shimadzu sign MPP. Poop.

1375 : boring - building cavs/artillery/infantry, finishing factories & banks & a few stock exchanges

IBT : nothing

1380 : almost ready - infantry / artillery / cavalry moved to yamaguchi for loading

IBT : Sell Communism to mori for 30g+12gpt+wm+enlight. Cash for nothing really.

1385 : The troops gather. combust in 1. Poop. The game locked up so retrieve from autosave & replay.

IBT : nothing

1390 : Combust > Mass Prod at minimum. Cash building up for for upgrades to transports and Artillery. AIs have Radio and must be aiming for flight. Save gold for upgrades to transports and Artillery. Some Cannon Junks upgraded to Transports in Yamaguchi. Invasion fleet starts loading - mostly infantry & Artillery for first beachhead. A few Destroyers ordered started.

IBT : nothing

1395 : Remaining Cannon Junks upgraded to transports. Cannons upgraded. Second wave loaded.

1400 : Shimazu invasion starts. 10 infantry +6 artillery landed on hill near kokubu (closese to Yamaguchi and Komaki2). There are 19 cav+7 artillery+6 infantry ready to land next turn. 4262 points.

End notes : Probably should revolt to Monarchy before proceeding and up the lux spending. War not yet declared - you could still pull back by auto-evacuating on demand. Lots more Cavs & Artillery in production for follow-up landings probably at the Ivory city. Probably should put the scientists onto tax gathering and just leave one working away. When Shimadzu is squashed we will gain 2 luxuries, while denying them to Han.

Best of luck. Sorry it took so long.

The Save at 1400AD

 

[mad-bax]

Nice job Peanut
Alweth you are UP.

We have to start killing the Shimazu right now. So lets get to it

 

[mad-bax]

[Copied from the PTW thread]

I have had a couple of RL issues to resolve over the new year period, namely I have no hot water or heating and twin 3 year old children. Consequently I have not been on the boards much recently.

Cracker contacted me recently and explained the late game easter eggs. I have not decided yet whether I should divulge this information verbatim, but I assume that this is what he was referring to. I have just been tardy, for which I apologise.

I have not played the game to the point of making use of this information, but for now I have decided to release the following information which is a compromise.

One of the late Industrial age techs will allow the building of a unit that you will not have encountered before, but that you will almost certainly be aware of in the historical context of Japanese history of this period. This unit may well be beneficial in acheiving a conquest victory.

The revised 'pedia will tell you what the unit does and what it costs to build etc.

I agree with cracker that the team would benefit from discussing how to use this unit once it has been discovered.

If Alweth doesn't pick this up then I will take it on Wednesday. I cannot take it before unfortunately.

 

[AdrianE]

Let me guess ... Kamikaze.

Actually I looked it up in the GOTM 26 civilopedia. Its a poor man's cruise missile (40S IIRC) and given that it costs a population point, I don't see that we will need them.

 

[cracker]

Look at the range and remember that "cruise missile" type units have a unique movement combination and then carefully consider how the unit might be used before you flippantly disregard their inclusion in the game.

 

[Peanut]

Although I have not met these units before, I think I agree with our esteemed retired GOTM God (who seems to be taking a keen ongoing interest in our progress towards world conquest).

My reasons :

Bombardment to soften up city defences and to cripple attacking stacks is essential to faster conquest. Taking out key enemy resources is a sure way of hastening their demise. Cruise missiles are excellent for this, but getting them to the right place is a right royal pain. If the Kamikaze gives us a cheaper unit with better range that can get itself close to where we need them (eg. rebase in an intermediate city if that's possible), then I cannot wait to use them.

We have dozens of crappy corrupt towns and cities each equipped with a free Granary with fast population growth (rememember old friend Tokugawa and his Pyramids ?). We also have about 180 workers most of whom are running out of useful tasks who can either augment population or give up shields to make rushing cheaper. Once we get tanks we can stop research and divert our cash to production rushing.

I suspect that squadrons of these units, coupled with a few dozen Tanks, will allow us to destroy the Han in short order. Or at the very least they will let us have loads of fun pounding them into the dust ...