MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [ptw]

Just to be clear. The GOTM rules which apply to this game do not prohibit the use of this tactic. I would have no objection to it being used.
 
If our units weren't magically teleported to our Capital then I don't think I'd have a problem with the tactic suggested.

I'm not that bothered about the war with Takeda. It's a nuisance and we'll probably lose a few cities temporarily but we all know how easy it is to out-manouevre the AI tactically :)

Entering MPPs is trickier as you can't tell which way you'll be dragged at the AI's whim.


Ted
 
In this case the teleportation is actually a bad thing for us as it moved our units further from the battlefield.

One never-in-the-real-world event happened during the turn, I managed to get the Shimazu in as our ally against Takeda, then when I attacked Ogaki, the Shimazu declared against us. That would be like Germany+England vs Japan while Germany vs England, only in Civ :)

The one move I made that I wasn't as comfortable with was to give gpt to the Shimazu to get the alliance, then when I attacked Ogaki, they declared and cancelled the gpt (hopefully hurting their rep).

A couple of questions to help with turn 2:

1. I noticed we have a couple of explorers, what were their intended use?
2. We are currently in Republic, their are a couple of cities I'm not sure I'll be able to hold, would a flip to Monarchy be a good idea.
3. I'm thinking about trading coal to the Mori, any reason not to?
4. There are 4 Chosogabe ships visible, are they inbound or outbound?

Thanks

Deny
 
1. Explorers are best used as pillagers in a stack: move out-pillage-move in.

2. Fortunately the last WW was with the now-gone Toku, so it's really depending on MPPs: with MPPs - yes, definitely, without MPPs - maybe.

3. In the current situation: why not. It 'll be quite some turns before they will be a target.

4. I don't know.
 
1. I built the explores for pillaging the Takeda, come the day they declared war. Looks as if I forgot to mention them in my notes :blush:

2. Try to stick with Republic if you can.

3. Go ahead, they're pretty low on our list at the moment.

4. No idea :D


Ted
 
Hmm, did Shimazu have a MPP with Takeda?

Are they at war with both of us now?

If you're troubled by the unit teleportation back to the capitol when gifting a city, is there room to run them a ways back towards the rest of our territory prior to gifting it?
 
Yes & Yes & No...

The Shimazu had an MPP with Takeda and the Shimazu & Takeda are both at war with us, but the way it happened was I got Shimazu to declare on Takeda for GPT (after a city gift), then attacked Chosogabe and the MPP with Chosogabe & Shimazu had the Shimazu declare on us so:

Takeda at war with Oda, Mori & Shimazu
Oda at war with Shimazu, Chosogabe & Takeda
Shimazu at war with Takeda, Mori, Oda
Chosogabe at war with Mori & Oda
Mori at war with Takeda, Chosigabe & Shimazu

As for making a run for it, the Samurai could make it, but the Kensai Oda, Otomo Spearman & Cannon would be left in the open as food for the Takeda cavalry. What I did was to use the Samurai to kill the adjacent cavalry then gift the city away, so I would be able to ding the Takeda and still save the troops for slaughter on the counter attack.

My plan is to fortify in the cities using the cannon supported riflemen behind walls to absorb the initial cavalry attack and counter attack with Samurai & Cavalry picking off the wounded and retreating back to the city for protection. The Takeda are using non-escorted cavalry and the 3 defense makes them vulnerable to counter attacks.

I should be able to post a turn log for the first couple of turns later tonight and complete my set of turns sometime tomorrow.

:beer:
 
The Han must be feeling very left out :)


Ted
 
And that worries me.

While our island is in a major melee, the Han are merrily researching their way to the modern age. We need to somehow get them into a war (and get them to shift to communism).
 
The 4 Chosogabe ships are outbound. They had the landing troops on them and should be empty now.

What is this about teleporting troops when gifting away a city?
Does it mean that all troops inside get returned to the gifting civ?

All these wars should at least slow down the tech pace a bit (hopefully).
 
Shevek,

When you gift a city to an AI, all of your troops get teleported to your capital.

And the tech pace has slowed for everybody except the Han. They're not in any war (yet), and they're researching under democracy with no worries.

We need to change that ASAP.

Deny
 
First the SAVE

After a quick look around my goals are to:
1. Save as many cities as possible
2. Get to Scientific Method
3. Build TOE
4. Get as many other AI at war as possible
5. Try to remove embedded cities


Turn 1 – 950 AD – Reset Game Preferences – Switch Yaizu to Rifleman and rush (40g) – Switch New Ise to Walls – Upgrade A-Spearman to Riflemen in Kokomo & Koramatsu – Upgrade O-Spearman to Rifleman in Kumano – Switch Koramatsu to Settler – Trade 160gpt to Shimazu for Alliance against Takeda – Shimazu declare on Takeda – Trade Coal + Horses to Shimazu for Democracy + 121g + WM – Upgrade O-Spearman to Rifleman in Shizuoka – Battle for Hamamatsu: Elite Samurai kills elite Cavalry (1/5) – Gift Hamamatsu to Shimazu - Battle for Ogaki: Cannon misses – Cannon hits – Cannon Misses – Vet Cavalry (3/4) kills Samurai – Vet Cavalry (1/4) kills Vet Cavalry – Vet Cavalry (3/4) kills Vet Cavalry – Vet Cavalry loses to Vet Cavalry (1/4) – Vet Samurai kills Vet Cavalry – Vet Cavalry (1/4) kills Vet Cavalry in Ogaki and due to the MPP Shimazu declares on us – Cavalry captures Shimazu – A couple of eastern garrison units are sent west Battle for Yok Revenge: Vet Samurai loses to Elite Cavalry (2/5) – Elite Samurai (3/5) kills Elite Cavalry Trade Coal to Mori for Enlightment + 12gpt + 18g – Slider to 7-3-0 Scientific Method in 20 turns – Gift Yok Revenge to Kuroda – And 3 hours later we’re ready for turn 2

IBT: During battles 7 Takeda Cavalry die and we lose 1 rifleman & 1 Samurai, but no cities (Hamamatsu razed) – New Ise Walls->Cannon Yaizu Rifleman->Rifleman – Handa Cavalry-> Cavalry Owase Exlorer->Cannon Marayama-ku Courthouse->Cavalry – Hikone Bank->Rifleman – New Iida Worker ->Cannon Palace Expansion West Wing gets 2nd floor – Han starting TOE

Turn 2 960 AD – Vet Samurai (3/4) kills Elite Cavalry – Battle for Ogaki – Cannon misses – Cannon misses – Cannon destroys marketplace - Vet Samurai (1/4) retreats from Rifleman (3/4) – Vet Cavalry (1/4) kills rifleman – Vet Cavalry (4/5) kills Vet Cavalry and promotes – Vet Samurai (2/4) kills Vet Cavalry – Vet Cavalry (5/5) kills Vet Cavalry and promotes – Vet Rifleman (4/4) kills Vet Cavalry and we take back Ogaki – starts temple – Battle for Sasebo: Catapult kills a citizen – Vet Cavalry (5/5) kills Reg Rifleman and promotes – Vet Cavalry (1/4) retreats from Reg Rifleman (2/3) – Vet Samurai loses to Reg Rifleman (and he promotes) – Vet Samurai (3/5) kills Vet Rifleman and destroys Galleon and takes Sasebo starts temple – Vet Samurai pillages iron site – Vet Samurai (4/4) kills Vet Cavalry – Vet Oda

IBT: I lose 1 Oda, 1 Samurai and 1 Rifleman to 3 Takeda Cavalry (no cities) – Kyoto Marketplace-> Cavalry - Nagoya Cavalry->Rifleman – Suzuka Cannon->Cavalry – Shizuoka Marketplace->Rifleman – Yokkachi Marketplace->Rifleman – Sakai Cannon->Rifleman – Shimazu start TOE

Turn 3 – 970 AD – Vet Cavalry (4/4) kills Vet Cavalry – Vet Cavalry (5/5) kills Vet Cavalry and promotes – Explorer pillages road – lots of units sent from the east to western front

IBT: Battle for Shizuoka Takeda lose 3 cavalry – we lose 1 cavalry + 1 Rifleman + 3 Samurai and they take city – Shimazu declare on Mori – Mori troops reach Takeda frontier and take Shikuoka – Trade Dyes + Wool + 14gpt + WM to Goguryeo for Incense – Kukiyama Cavalry->Cavalry – Komaki Cavalry->Rifleman – Chosogabe start TOE

Turn 4 – 980 AD – Elite Samurai (4/5) kills Vet Cavalry – Kita-ku reinforced – Kokomo reinforced – Notice Takeda Junk N of New Hamamatsu – send Samurai to wait for troops to land – hire a taxman in Moriyamaku – Trade Wool to Baekje for 7gpt

IBT: Lose a defender in Oswan – Takeda retake Shizuoka – Trade Wool to Korea for 7gpt (was 16gpt for 2 luxs) – Trade Dyes + 21gpt to Han for Spices (was 19gpt + dyes) – Mori take back Shizuoka - Koromo marketplace ->rifleman – New Hamamatsu Harbor->Cannon – Toyotomi Cannon->Cavalry – Pressure-1 Cannon Kublai->Cavalry

Turn 5 – 990 AD – Vet Cavalry (5/5) kills Vet Cavalry and promotes – Vet Samurai losses to Vet Cavalry (3/5) and he promotes – Elite Samurai (5/5) kills Elite Cavalry – Elite Kensai attacks Elite Cavalry (1/5) who retreats – Elite Cavalry (4/5) kills Elite Cavalry

IBT: We lose 1 rifleman, the Kubla Cannon (sinks a Frigate first) – Winegaki Cavalry->Cavalry – Moriyama-too Cavalry->Cavalry – Jutsama Harbor ->Rifleman – Gorury start TOE – Korea starts TOE

Turn 6 – 1000 AD – Elite Cavalry (4/5) kills Vet Cavalry – Troops move to reinforce western cities – First level war weariness setting in slider to 6-3-1 and Tanabe hires clown – Embichi hires taxman – Kokomo hires taxman – Kumano hires taxman

IBT: All battles are Mori & Takeda based – Takeda junk N of Ogaki - Azuchi Bank->Cavalry – Nagahama Cavalry->rifleman – Kita-ku cavalry->rifleman – Inchinomiya harbor->cannon – Tehjay Cavalry->cavalry – New Acuchi Cavalry->cavalry

Turn 7 – 1010 AD – (A two year old helps and I reload from Auto-save) – Cannons 3-hits 2-miss – Elite Cavalry (3/5) kills Elite Cavalry – Vet Oda loses to Elite Cavalry (3/5) – Elite Cavalry (3/5) kills Elite Cavalry – I send a couple of cavalry & samurai back to Ogaki in case – Koramitsu hires a taxman

IBT: Takeda land 2 cavalry next to Ogaki – all inter-turn battles are Mori-Takeda centered – Suzuka Cavalry->Cavalry – Tanabe Marketplace->Rifleman – Handa rifleman->rifleman – Kasugai library->Cavalry – Kokomo temple->cannon

Turn 8 - 1020 AD – Cannon fire 5-hits 1-miss – Elite Cavalry (3/5) kills Elite Cavalry - Elite Samurai (1/5) kills Elite Cavalry – Trade Peace to Shimazu getting Trade Embargo with Takeda + 75g – Trade Wines + Dyes + WM + 5gpt + 60g to Takeda for Ivory – Trade Wines to Baekje for 5gpt - Renew ROP with Mori – Slider to 5-4-1 – Sch Meth in 5 – Bank 106 –29gpt – Hire 4 taxmen & 1 clown (WW is getting nasty)

IBT: All battles are Takeda-Mori – Beware Chosogabe ships heading to Ogaki – Kobe Rifleman->Cavalry – Kukiyama Cavalry->Rifleman – Kumano riots taxman to clown – Komaki rifleman->rifleman – Kwanaka Cannon->cavalry – Moriyama-ku Cannon Kublai->rifleman

Turn 9 – 1030 AD – Moving cavalry to Owanse for Takeda assault – Peace with Chosogabe getting Scientific Method for 75g + 24gpt – TOE in 2 turns – Researching Atomic Theory – Slider at 9-0-1

IBT: More Mori & Takeda battles – Baekje & Chosogabe ally against Takeda – Nagoya rifleman->rifleman – Moryanam-ku Cavalry->rifleman –

Turn 10 – 1040 AD – Units moving to Owanse – more railroads being built – Trade dyes to Shimazu for WM + 16gpt + 90g – Trade Wool to Chosogabe for 9gpt + 25g – Peace with Takeda getting WM – Declare war on Kuroda – Vet Cavalry loses to O-Spear (2/4) – Ares kills O-Spear takes Yok Revenge starts Temple – Kuroda are hiding on a boat somewhere

IBT: Ise builds Theory of Evolution – Science Advance Atomic Theory & Electronics – start research on The Corporation – Ise starts Hoover Dam – Hikone rifleman>factory – Moriyama-too Cavalry->factory – New Nagoya Cannon-> Factory – Goguryeo & Korea switch to Universal Suffrage

So my 10 are done and hopefully we’re out of war for a while (Kuroda not withstanding) – time to build factories and get Hoover. We’re the first to Atomic Theory and should protect that until Hoover is ready. We can get espionage from Mori for Electricity if the next person wants. I did set up a couple of 20-turn deals not expecting the Takeda war to end when it did. We can wait for tanks while we wait for them to expire while building infrastructure or break them and take out the Chososgabe & Mori. I’ll post more after I get some sleep.


Sorry Space, not quite what I left you last time, but at least the world isn't at war with you. :D
 
Well played denyd :thumbsup:

A very strange war indeed :confused: I expected these conflicts to drag on for quite a while. Instead all the fuss is over in ten turns.

I've had a quick look at the save and I can't see that anything important has changed hands but maybe I missed it :)

The downside, as denyd said, is that we have a whole slew of ongoing deals with our targets.


Ted
 
Score is 1908 in 1050 AD. Game does not require enter to be hit.

Great work Denyd! We have some time to buld and then go back on offensive. Takada still at war I see. For next player. Ise can be tile swapped to Hoover in 22 instead of 24. Swap tile with Suzuka and you get exactly 24 food. I think we are set up nicely except that the other side of the world is not at war. Our enemies should shread each other a while and then we can pick them apart. Wow that was an exciting read. Great going again. I see you can get the Corporation 3578g and 120gpt from Korea for AT :lol:. Be sure to start with Koreas wad o'cash. BTW - this game did not need to have enter hit to start. So for that reason thats all I'm saying. I looked at what all Civs would give for AT and Korea is far and away the richest. With that wad o'cash yo can probably upgrade a lot of spears, rifles and then lets see Takada mouth off! This will be great!
Can't believe Niimi hasn't flipped yet!
 
I looked at the save, and here are my thoughts:

At this moment in the game I think the Han is the biggest threat. They will build the Spaceship if we don't do anything about it. So why not buy Espionage and try to steal techs from the Han. At some point they'll declare. They are quite a ways away so we should be able to manage the full 20 turns of war. With some carefully chosen alliances we might be able the slow 'm down.

Meanwhile I'll try to build a factory in each of our productive cities. I'm not comfortable with breaking deals, we're not strong enough to do this without relying on partners. So let's try to build up in the years the deals are in place (Rep. Parts!) and strike when our infra is strong.

On dealing TA: this is a matter of careful timing, too early and we don't get Hoover's, too late and we loose leverage. What's the team's take on this?
 
If we can get all techs and have 3500g I think it is worth the risk to Hoovers. We have been struggling to get out of the tech hole for 50 turns and the opportunity now presents itself. Hoovers is building in a high shield city so it is good odds. We can judiciously upfrade some boys to infantry and with the cash run a deficit on getting to Tanks quicker than the AI.
I completely agree with you on the Han. We need to get them fighting some guys without them conquering their continent. That would be Shimazu, Mori and Choso, saving Takada for us to knock out. I might even think of declaring on Han and then using tech to get alliances. Our entire continent fighting the Han would be ideal. Our tech lead could probably do that too. Once we get Hoover we can declare on Han and get everone on him. Thats 22 turns to prepare. During that 22 we can take a bite out of Takada if we can get him to declare.
 
Well,

as we seem to have ongoing deals with everyone except Kuroda I suggest that we research Replaceable Parts ASAP or buy it from Shimazu, Korea or Han (preferably Korea) when we've saved enough.

Infrastructure sounds good unless somebody declares on us :)


Ted
 
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