MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [ptw]

[TedJackson]

I've just finished my eigth turn and have (just) captured Kyoto.

I'll take a turn in the morning to tidy up then post.


Ted

 

[barbslinger]

Nice work Ted!
Any word on the wool city or iron city Watamaya? Thats great news. Can't wait to see the save and/or screenshot.

 

[mad-bax]

I need your Firaxis score from what should have been the 50AD save please. Thanks. It's late I'll amend the rosters etc. in the morning.

 

[DaveShack]

@mad-bax The score for 90AD is shown above as 606, and 90BC is shown as 519. The adjusted score for 50AD assuming linear progression (shouldn't be far off) is 580.

 

[TedJackson]

Pre-flight checks...
Ichinomiya about to riot - hire taxman
Azuchi switches to Kensai
Tanabe switches to Temple
308gp (+95gpt)
Sell WM to Mori for WM + 17gp
Buy WM + Ivory from Shimazu for WM, 31gp + 3gpt
Sell WM to Chosogabe for WM + 39gp
Sell WM to Goguryeo for WM + 20gp
Sell WM to Tokugawa for WM, 27gp + 1gpt
380gp (+93gpt)
Monotheism still too expensive
Ichinomiya & Morayama-ku fire their taxmen

Press button
Takeda wants to exchange WM - I give him our TM for his WM
Kensai kills attacking Samurai (2SE Nagahama)
Kagesuke kills attacking Samurai (2SE Nagahama)
Horse retreats from something (SW Nagahama)
Ise Kensai - Forbidden Palace
Suzuka Agashuri - Kagesuke
Komaki Kensai - Kagesuke
Kwanaka Warrior - Cat
Matsue (Mori) completes Hanging Gardens

1 - 110AD
Vet Kagesuke kills Samurai (E Nagahama) & promotes
Withdraw our forces from Nagahama (apart from the retreated Kagesuke) to 2SE Nagahama where they will wait for reinforcements next turn
Upgrade Warrior to Kensai (Ogaki)
Upgrade Warrior to Kensai (Kwanaka)
Send reinfrocements to Nagahama & Tanabe
Set Tanabe to starve & hire taxmen
Lux 20%
Fire Scientist in Suzuka rehire him in Ichinomiya
Hawk WM
Entertainment is costing 40gpt so I look for a luxury deal
Buy Silks from Chosogabe for 16gpt
Lux 10% (20gpt)
I could buy Wool from Mori for 16gpt but hopefully Nagahama will give us wool in 3 turns

Our red-lined Kagesuke dies
Azuchi Kensai - Market
Nagoya Kensai - Kagesuke
Yokkachi Kagesuke - Kensai
Sakai Worker - Worker
Hikone Kagesuke - Kagesuke
Resistance in Tanabe ends

2 - 130AD
Troops manouevre for assault on Nagahama
Troops advance to Tanabe in preparation for assault on Kyoto
Hawk WM

IBT
Koromo Kagesuke - Kagesuke
Handa Kensai - Cat
Moroyama-ku Temple - Worker
Kita-ku Kensai - Kagesuke
Ogaki Kensai - Cat
TehJay Kensai - Cat

3 - 150AD
Vet Kagesuki retreats from Samurai
Reg Kensai kills Samurai & promotes
Army arrives SE of Nagahama
3 Kagesuke, 1 Agashiru & 1 Kensai move to E Tanabe (pillage road to Kyoto next turn) with road gang
Tanabe hurries Temple for 108gp
Hawk WM

IBT
Vet Agashiru killed by Samurai (E Tanabe) but red-lined
Suzuka Kagesuke - Kagesuke
Tanabe Temple - Agashiru

4 - 170AD
Vet Kagesuke kills 1/4 Samurai (ENE Tanabe)
Kensai Army kills vet Otomo (Nagahama)
Nagahama falls (1gp & 4 Slaves)
Wasn't expecting such an easy victory. Garrison troops are 1 move behind
Hawk WM
Move the Scientist to Suzuka

IBT
3 Kurodan Samurai arrive near Tanabe
Get the Heroic Epic message
Nagoya Kagesuke - Kagesuke
Winegaki Cat - Kensai
Yokkachi Kensai - Kagesuke
Komaki Kagesuke - Agashiru
Hikone Kagesuke - Agashiru
Kwanaka Cat - Agashiru
Nagahama riots (of course)
Takeda start Leonardo's (Invention)

5 - 190AD
Azuchi switches to Heroic Epic
Vet Kensai kills Samurai
Vet Kensai kills Samurai & promotes
Advance Party arrives on hill West of Kyoto
Vet Kensai kills Samurai
Garrison arrives Nagahama
Advance Party moves toward Wakayama (pillage Iron next turn)
Tanabe hurries Agashiru for 116gp
Hawk WM

IBT
Kagesuke retreats from Elite Samurai after inflicting 3hp
Tanabe Agashiru - Agashiru
Resistance in Nagahama ends
Handa Cat - Cat
Ogaki Cat - Cat
Han start Sistine (Theology)
Chosogabe start Leonardo's (Invention)

6 - 210AD
Assault on Kyoto:
Vet Kensai kills reg Agashiru
Vet Kagesuke retreats from reg Agashiru
Vet Kagesuke retreats from reg Agashiru inflicting 1hp
Vet Kagesuke retreats from vet Otomo inflicting 2hp
Vet Kagesuke dies red-lining 2/3 Agashiru
Vet Kagesuke kills 2/5 Samurai
Nagahama hurries Temple for 116gp
Winegaki switches to Agashuri and hurries for 108gp
Hawk WM

IBT
Suzuka Kagesuke - Agashiru
Winegaki Agashiru - Kagesuke
Tanabe flips with a large Garrison
Nagahama Temple - Lib
Tehjay Cat - Kagesuke
Takeda start Sistine

7 - 230AD
Vet Kensai recaptures Tanabe & promotes
Cats destroy Temple at Wakayama
Vet Kensai kills reg Otomo (Wakayama)
Vet Kensai dies (Wakayama)
Vet Kensai kills 2/3 Otomo and promotes
Wakayama is ours (5 Slaves)
Slight mouse accident sends our Agashiru to NE Wakayama
Main force arrives W of Kyoto
Army moves to SW Wakayama
Hawk WM

IBT
Nagoya Kagesuke - Kagesuke
Koromo Kagesuke - Kagesuke
Yokkachi Kagesuke - Kagesuke
Morayama-ku Worker - Agashiru
Kita-ku Kagesuke - Cat
Kasugai Cat - Cat
Hikone Agashiru - Agashiru
Han start Leonardo's (Invention)

8 - 250AD
Vet Kensai dies inflicting 2hp on vet Agashiru (Kyoto)
Vet Kensai kills vet Agashiru (Kyoto)
Vet Kensai kills vet Otomo & promotes (Kyoto)
Thor (vet Kensai) kills 2/4 Agashiru & promotes
Kyoto is ours (with Great Libray & 1 Slave)
Army advances on Kobe (new Capital)
Hawk WM

IBT
We learn Monarchy, Monotheism, Son Buddhism & Samurai Code
Research Gunpowder
Resistance in Kyoto ends
Resistance in Wakayama ends
Handa Cat - Agashiru
Komaki Agashiru - Samurai (4.4.2, 70 shields)
Ogaki Cat - Cat
Tokugawa start Sistine (Theology)

9 - 260AD
Kyoto hurries Temple for 116gp
Wakayama hurries Temple for 112gp
Kyoto garrison increased
Army advances toward Kobe

New Territories

Firaxis Score: 706

Notes
We need to take Kobe to have a native route to the Wool at Nagahama & Wakayama.
If we take Otsu as well then Kuroda are left with only Himeji (South of Morayama-ku).
Samurai are now available.
We need to choose our next enemy - Tokugawa would seem favourite but we still have 11 turns left on a deal.
No GL as there weren't really any elites to fight with. If we get one soon then I think an Army of Samurai would be fun.

The save is > here <


Ted

 

[TedJackson]

Here's a closer look at the situation around Kobe

Ted

 

[a space oddity]

Well done, Ted.
Looking as tidy as ever. Good value from the GL, too.

 

[Shevek]

Got it. Have no time right now to look at the save but will play later today.
I will take 9 turns as well and after that we should be on track again.

 

[barbslinger]

Fantastic work Ted! The Library is ours, fingers crossed on no flip. Looks like a second core coming soon! Hoping for a leader to take a FP or Palace to Wakayama.
My votes go to:
1 Finishing off Kuroda and then taking it to Mori with Choso, Shimazu help.
2 Second core in new lands. There is room for a tighter build there. NW and NE of Wakayama.
3 Starting up against Takada with Toku help. (Toku buffer) Need those two fighting.
3 Keep eye on Han progress on other island. If he gets too far ahead of his group we may have to give generous deals to Gogureo, Baekje, Korea to help them to keep Han from running island over.

The war-machine marches on. On the native wool route Ted spoke of. When we do get it online and if/when we go after Mori we need to take out Yonago 1st to secure a better route and absolutely post some boys up near Kobe to guard the roads until we take it. We will most likely trade some wool when we get it online and if Mori stops /pillages the road we're screwed.

 

[Shevek]

Sorry guys, I will not manage to play tonight. RL interfering .
But tomorrow night is a definite (unless, of course, the proverbial bus runs over me ).
I will have a look at the forum before playing, so any opinions, tips and so on are wellcome.

Until later

 

[a space oddity]

I agree with barbslinger that we need some settlers to fill up the newly conquered lands.

We are only average in power vs the Mori and strong vs Toku! I know that our troops are located east now but the Toku lands are very fertile, much more so than the Mori lands. It also has a better shape, it fits 2 complete circles and would be ideal for our new core IMHO. Another reason to take them on now is to prevent them from getting too strong.

edit: Thinking about it some more, made me cosider the long border we share with the Toku as opposed to the narrow one with the Mori. The Mori will automatically have concentrated attacks which inevitably will make progress slow and the gains are relatively small (no new luxes, no terrific lands). The long border with the Toku OTOH is difficult for us to defend, but equally so for them. They also have no new luxes but as I said earlier they do have great lands. The only difficulty I see at the moment is logistics, we should only declare when all the troops are in place for a blitz. The only reason the Toku are weak is because they haven't fought a war yet. We should not give them time to build up their forces.

 

[Shevek]

I have nosed around the save a bit before going to work and it does look quite good for us.

My objective will be:
1. Capture Kobe and Otsu
2. Produce settlers to fill in NE peninsula
3. Get some more workers out to road up our new lands and get wool online ASAP

Economy wise we do not look bad and we have military production running in all our old cities with exception of Azuchi (Heroic Epic due in 3) and Ise (FP due in 5).
The first samurai will roll off the production line in 6 turns. We also have money and therefore can upgrade some Kagesuke to samurai (for 80gp per pop)

As to our next target there are good reasons for either Mori or Toku.

Mori:
PRO
- they have cities in 'our' territory that can become a thorn in our side and a danger (esp. if they sneak attacked us)
- they are the strongest of the AI in our corner and should be cut down to size early
- taking out the Mori will give us an easy to defend 'hinterland', any attack in our back would have to rely on landing with boats
- less defence of captured cities needed during war with them due to long, narrow shape of peninsula
CON
- as strong as us and that effort may slow us down too much
- as Space pointed out their land is not as nice as Toku's

Toku:
PRO
- weak compared to us
- they have good lands
- with their share of land they have the potential to become really strong
- the middle of their land would be very nice for relocating the palace to
CON
- very long front line
- our troops are in the east currently
- more defencive units needed to defend captured cities

Overall I think we should to go after Mori first.

 

[a space oddity]

I agree with all your PROs and CONs and come to the opposite conclusion... the main reason being the palace jump. It is effective only when done on time, the earlier the better.

I would like to hear what the others think, though.
And in the end it's your turn Shevek, so you are one to make the final choice.

 

[Shevek]

Well, I certainly will not attack Toku on my watch as I am playing 9 turns and we have a 11 turn deal going with them.
I will try to not make rash decisions.

 

[Shevek]

Maybe a sensible compromise could be to get the Mori cities in our territory and then to sue for peace ASAP. After that concentrate on Toku.

 

[a space oddity]

Missed the deal we have with them, I am absolutely in favor of keeping deals. I like the compromise.

edit: fixed the smiley, space much like pretty pictures

 

[barbslinger]

How about phony Takada war with a Toku alliance while we get the Mori lands we want. 20 turns of being his buddy and his troops move to Takada-Toku lines. Then his backside (our border) will be less defended when 20 turns are up and we can switch-a-roo, get peace/alliance with Takada - war with Toku. He'll be exposed and have it coming on two fronts.
In the meantime, we improve Wakayama/Kobe core (leader for a palace jump would be great), to get it able to sustain military production, Courts, markets. By the time we're done clearing our backyard rubbish, the Mori, it would be time to head to Toku.
At either rate, alliances to get Choso, Shimazu involved would be nice.

 

[a space oddity]

The downside to a phony war and getting Toku to fight it, is that he will build his forces and be strong when we start our attack. But we can't fight opn two fronts, so we'll just have to hope Takeda and the Toku are equal in strength enough not to give either one the advantage.

 

[denyd]

I just got a chance to look over the map (CP Rings, no game at work) and here's my 2 cents.

Short term goals:

1. Take Kobe & Orsu, that should finish off the Kuroda (no more flip chances!!).
2. Drop a couple of cities in the gaps around Wakayama.
3. Setup troops for assault on Yonaga, Tottori, Gifu & Niimi (have settlers ready to replace after razing) . If done quickly, we might be able to snatch this territory and get peace before the Mori can respond.
4. During these offensives try to use the Elites on easy targets to troll for a GL to expedite our Palace move.
5. Get friendly with the Takeda for future MA.
6. Find the other tribes to improve trade opportunities.
7. Build up military for future Tokugawa campaign

Since I can't get a good look at our current order of battle, I'm not sure where our emphasis should be. Probably we'll need more Samurai, Jap Catapults and Pike/Musket units, plus a few settlers to fill in for the razed cities.

Shevek should be able to handle #1 and get me setup for #2. I'll plant those cities and get some more military out there so Space can the Mori (seems like I'm the city planter / military builder on this team)

On a scheduling note: I might not be able to pick it up tomorrow (dental surgery). If I get a chance to play tonight, then no problems or if I'm feeling fine, I'll play on tomorrow. It might be until Wednesday night if I'm not in playing condition.

 

[a space oddity]

If I'm not mistaken we've already achieved 6. That's one of the reasons we've gotten so much out of the GL.

Good luck at the dentist tomorrow Denyd. To cheer you up here's a and a :fish: