MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [ptw]

It looks like we are done settling now. We are in quite good shape so far.

The Kuroda as first target gets my vote, too. Sanda and Sakai are just so much bait for us. :hammer:
If the Mori were not in the way I would vote for going north in our attack (all those lovely wool up there). As it stands conquering our way towards Kyoto seems to be the best course of action.

When to start war? As soon as possible IMHO.
Kuroda are 'weak' and we should exploit that.
We have 6 Kensai and 3 Kagesuke for offensive units. According DaveShack another 3 Kagesuke will join ranks within 3 turns. That force could net us some cities. :hammer:
 
Like prior posts I'd like to take out the 2 cities on our south shores. They can't have more than an Otomo and perhaps they have built a 3hp Otomo or spear. The cat, 4 Kensei's and Otomo cover should be enough to take care of that. Once we have the chokes we can go for either the NE group or head to Kyoto through Tanabi. I like the Northern cities. It has a nice looking core for possible FP, wool and will most likely be less defended. Conversely, Kyoto has the GL which would be nice, even though Education is around the corner. Also Kyoto is better FP. With war happening won't the AI go for the warring techs and leave education alone?
Either way I think we'll easily take the 2 coastal Kuroda towns and then be faced with which way to go. NorthEast into a core to deny iron, add wool, or to Kyoto. NE is closer travel from our core, most likely less defended - Kyoto is more travel, has GL and will break Kurodas back if we succeed, but probably heavily defended. Bringing Mori in with ROP, cash/ tech into the fray will help too and I like that idea as long as they don't grab too much of the Kurodan pie.
Also, if we get a leader do we rush Sun Zu when Feudalism comes in? We'll need all the free barracks for the conquest we are embarking on.
 
Nobunaga (Nobunaga Oda)[nObOOna´ga Oda´] Pronunciation Key, 1534–82, Japanese military commander. The son of a daimyo, Nobunaga greatly expanded his father's holdings, becoming master of three provinces near present-day Nagoya. The emperor secretly appealed to him for help, and Nobunaga, acting in the emperor's name, became (1568) dictator of central Japan. Though he restored the ousted shOgun (Nobunaga's ancestry made him ineligible for the title), the real power was his and, aided by his general Hideyoshi Toyotomi and his ally Ieyasu, he unified all Japan except the extreme north and west. He broke the temporal power of the great Buddhist sects by destroying their armies. He was one of the first Japanese generals to supply his foot-soldiers with muskets. The early Jesuits in Japan gained Nobunaga's respect and, thereby, his permission to preach. Under his rule, free trade was encouraged and an era of castle building began. He was murdered by one of his discontented generals before the unification of all Japan, a task that was completed by Hideyoshi and Ieyasu
 
First, the >>save<<

290 BC inherited turn

Checking around and getting re-engaged with the game...

Haven't run a 4 turn settler factory before. Azuchi is in turn 1 of the cycle, with
1 food and 0 shields stored, so snapshot to ensure I can MM it back to the beginning
of the cycle the next time around. At 9spt and +5fpt looks like it's a matter of not
messing it up...

Otherwise looks OK, pressing enter.

IBT: Kuroda (green) settler pairs move onto grass squares.
Mori request an audience, offer is WM for WM. We are up communications with Shimazu.
Go ahead and swap maps.

270 BC, turn 1. 472g-17gpt, 4.5.1, Feudal Warlords in 18

Perry E-SE. Settler+escort continue SW.

Trade check:
Kuroda do not have horses.
Shimazu do not have horses and are down 4 techs
Chosogabe have 45g but our only tradable commodity is contact with Shimazu
Takeda have 25g and lack both horses and iron. If they were closer would make
them the target and try to wipe them out prior to either getting connected.
Tokugawa have 55g and two workers. We could get both workers, all the gold, and 4gt for contact.

Recap, can get up to 55g+4gpt + 2 workers for contact. Shimazu have a junk and appear
to be sending it around the W end of their island, so contact is inevitable. Hope this
doesn't turn out a bonehead play, but the workers won't be there forever...
Aside from its monopoly value, contact with Shimazu is quite worthless -- they are
down Shamanism, Currency, Republic, Construction and have only lux to trade for them.

Do Tokugawa trade, Contact with Shimazu for 55g+4gpt+2 workers.
Sell contact/Shimazu to Chosogabe for WM+45g+6gpt
Sell contact/Shimazu to Takeda for WM+20g+4gpt
Sell contact/Shimazu to Kuroda for 37g+WM
Sell contact/Mori to Shimazu for 23g+WM

Now have 629g-3gpt. Science to 70% -21gpt, Feudal Warlords in 13.

New slaves go toward Suzuka

IBT
Ise completes Kagesuke, starts another (4)
Forgot to check happienes, Suzuka riots, hire entertainer
Kita-ku completes warrior, starts Kagesuke (15)

250BC, turn 2, 631g-24gpt, Feudal Warlords in 12.

Move units to shadow Kuroda settler pairs
MM Azuchi to not produce the settler too early (it dropped from 3 turns to 1 on growth)

IBT
There must be a trick to avoiding happieness problems :( Ise hires entertainer
Koromo completes worker, starts Kagesuke (10)
Ogaki complets barracks, starts Kensai Oda (15)

230BC, turn 3, 607g-21gpt, Feudal Warlords in 11

Workers work, preposition troops, keep forces next to Kuroda settler pairs

IBT
Azuchi completes settler, starts another, MM back to 4 turns
Nagoya completes spear, starts another
Moriyama-ku completes barracks, starts Kensai Oda
Embichi hires entertainer
Chosogabe building Hanging Gardens

210BC, turn 4, 580g-31gpt, Feudal Warlords in 10

Settler, spear (Nagoya) head for hills W-NW of Oqaki. Want to give Naqoya room to grow.
Follow Kuroda settlers

trade check (their attitude-our military strength)
Kuroda cautious-strong, no trade route, have 27g, wool, lack horses
Mori annoyed-average, no trade route, have 23g, wool
Shimazu cautious-average, no trade route, have 5g, furs, ivory, lack horses and 3 techs
Chosogabe annoyed-average, have Monarchy, 96g, silks (no route)
Takeda polite-average, have 1g
Tokugawa polite-average, have 4g

IBT
Suzuka completes Kagesuke, starts another (8)
Ichinomiya hires entertainer
Kikone completes Jap Catapult, starts another
Embichi completes worker, starts another

190BC, turn 5, 549g-33gpt, Feudal Warlords in 9

Catapult to Winegaki
Follow Kuroda settlers
Found Shakasani on S coast between 2 lambs, start worker

IBT
Yokkachi completes Kagesuke, starts another
Kasugai completes barracks, starts Otomo Spearman
Komaki completes Kagesuke, starts another
Mori have a spear/settler and archer/worker on the border next to Kasugai

170BC, turn 6, 518g-33gpt, Feudal Warlords in 8

Continue to shadow Kuroda settlers/escorts
Move new Kagesuke toward Sakai
Wake kensai, warrior and move toward Sakai

Trade check, Kuroda still lack horses, Chosogabe have Monarchy, Tokugawa have worker.
Nothing worth pursuit.

IBT
Ise completes Kagesuke, starts another
Winegaki completes temple, starts Otomo Spearman
Moriyama-ku hires entertainer
Mori building hanging gardens
Kuroda building hanging gardens
Takeda building Sun Tsu's

150BC, turn 7, 484g-35gpt, Feudal Warlords in 5

Build Kwanaka on the coast W-NW of Oqaki, producing warrior (to upgrade later)
Move units into position to declare on Kuroda next turn

IBT
Azuchi completes settler, starts another, MM to 4 turns
Nagoya complets Otomo Spear, starts Kensai
TehJay completes barracks, starts Kensai
Takeda building Hanging Gardens

130BC, turn 8, 451g-37gpt, Feudal Warlords in 3

Kuroda moved 2 warriors and 1 archer out of Sanda.

Declare war with Kuroda

Vet Kagesuke defeats reg spear, settler captured
Sakai: Vet Kagesuke defeats reg spear, 2/4
Vet Kagesuke retreats from reg spear, 1/4

Sanda: Vet Kagesuke defeats reg warrior outside town, promotes
Vet Kagesuke defeats reg archer outside, promotes
vet Kagesuke retreats from reg spear, 1/4 (spear 2/3)
Vet Kagesuke dies attacking 2/3 spear

Not the best beginning to a war ever, but we'll see what happens

IBT
Movement...
Chosogabe request audience, offer TM swap, squeeze 1 gold out of them

110BC, turn 9, 416g-33gpt, Warlords in 2.
vet Otomo vs reg warrior/settler, dies redlining warrior
vet kagesuke defeats 1/3 warrior, 2/4 remains, settler captured
workers work

sanda: elite kagesuke defeats regular spear, Sanda destroyed.
elite kagesuke loses redlining a loose regular warrior
Injured Kagesuke go to heal
MM Azuki
Science to 60%, warlords in 2 @-24gpt

IBT
Mori passing another settler through our land
Hikone produces catapult, starts spear

90BC, turn 10, 392g-24gpt, warlords in 1
can't reduce slider

Vet Kensai Oda defeats reg Spear, promotes, our civ enters a Golden Age
Injured heal

We only need 1 settler for SE Kuroda city replacement, so switch Azuchi to Kensai
Now that GA is started, reduce slider to 50%, Warlords in 1, +4gpt
Perry has discovered a barb island

The RNG was not especially kind :(

Suggested next actions

A few Kensai are currently MP, probably ought to produce spears instead and release the Kensai for offensive duty. Can't just send them, have Mori settler pairs walking through.

Edit: sorry, no screenies the baby wants a bottle NOW :crazyeye:
 
Jimmydean is up.

Could someone post the score for the end of Daveshacks turn please? No rush, you have played more turns than the other teams.

Thanks.
 
@ DaveShack - Good call to buy the workers for contact. I would have done exactly the same. Together with the captured workers/settler we should start to have a more decent worker count.

From the log I see that you have hired 3 clowns. Isn't it a bit early in the game for that? We have money so why not use the slider to up luxury? A entertainer stunts growth as no food is coming from him.
 
Originally posted by denyd
It’s probably time to start talking about Great Leader usage. My normal order of preference in a military game is Leo’s (cheaper upgrades), Sun Tzu (barracks for all, skipped in an islands game), FP (in the middle of conquered territory), Army (when all else fails) and Heroic Epic (if we’ve had a victorious army), depending on what’s available.
Click to expand...

My preference would rather go:
1. Forbidden palace
2. Sun Tzu
3. Army

I think we should either start to build FP now or very soon and move the palace with a leader into Kuroda territory.
Or hope for an early leader for the FP.
The disadvantage with this is the question of luck. We might finish our first war without any leaders at all and it is maybe not the best idea to rely too much on them.
Either way an early FP is essential IMHO.

Edit:
Barbslinger, thanks for the short history of our leader. I didn't know he was a contempory of Ieyasu and Hideyoshi.
 
I'd rather choose an Army for our first GL. A quick victory by the army will enable Heroic Epic which improves our chances of generating more leaders in the future.

Circumstances always alter cases so if there's an essential Wonder in the offing or we're in a position to rush the FP far enough away to make a real difference then obviously the choice is harder :)


Ted
 
Originally posted by mad-bax
Could someone post the score for the end of Daveshacks turn please? No rush, you have played more turns than the other teams.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Score is 519 @ 90BC
 
I agree that FP is tops in most cases. However, we will need to conquer/settle a nice spot 1st to put the palace in and our cash is OK right now. Lets grab some Kurodan land and see how leader fishing goes. I am also very keen on SunZsu's to have barracks in conquered cities to continue the bloodbath. Warlords is coming in next turn and it will be available.

My list would be 1 - SunZsu's, 2 - Army, 3 - FP

Any thoughts on whether to go for wool city or GL? Wool city should be easy to grab if we can get an ROP with Mori. He won't rape us will he? Even more reason to get alliance for 2 front attack on Kuroda to gas him early so we can press.:hammer:
 
I would also consider building the FP close to home then rushing a Palace in a conquered capital but I'm not sure we've got a good candidate city for this option (I can't look at the save until this evening).

On reflection, Sun Tzu is probably my number one choice for our current situation. Of course this is assuming we get a GL in time :D


Ted
 
I kinda thought Ise was Settler/Worker. Or, have I misremembered?

Can someone post an F1 screenshot, sorted by production please?


Ted
 
Picture of F1 screen coming up as requested :p

MB4PTW-90BC-F1.jpg


And since I am at it:

MB4PTW-90BC.jpg



Edit: Spelling
 
If we go for a close by FP than Ise would be a strong contender indeed. It brings in enough shields to build relatively quickly (13 turns) and is quite central.

Regarding the possibility of ROP rape by the Mori, I think we cannot rule that out. I have seen the AI doing that. (In a current game of mine the Germans signed ROP and than send a lonely cav into my territory and march right into an undefended city next turn.)
 
Next tech? I vote Engineering for bridges across all our rivers.

WAR! A Kensei/Kagesuke swarm should be in order. If we can keep everyone else off of us we should be able to gas him with our production. Getting to Monarchy would be nice too.

As for FP, I would like to wait until we can get over to Kuroda. We only get one FP and we should develop a good one for this conquest scenario. 2 double ring production cores should take the whole Japanese mainland, Chosogabe and Shimazu. Putting it in Ise would work though if we can Palace build in newly conquered territories. that hinges on GL's to build. Then develop culture to pop borders, move palace to the next conquer zone, repeat. Let's see how far we can gas Kuroda. If we can get NE wool ring that looks like a nice FP zone. Kyoto or near it would be optimal. If we can get Mori to take Nara(iron) and we get wool ring (iron) we can then press Kuroda with our Kensei's. He won't have anything but archers.
 
I really hate to do this, but I'm going to have to bow out of this game. My work has been consuming 15-18+ hours a day of my life, and I don't have time to do much of anything, let alone meet the commitment required of me for this game. Before too long, I'll be working less, but at the moment, I don't feel right trying to play after a typical day of being up for 20 hours on 4 hours of rest. I wish you the best of luck in this game, and I hope to be able to play again in the future with this group.

jd
 
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