MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [ptw]

[barbslinger]

I was only trying to emphasise that E-W railing should garner more a consideration when deciding what to rail. I'm at work so I can't see cities but heading E from Ise towards Kyoto and W from Ise, perhaps along coast to avoid mountains, should be a priority. this differs from the usual hooking up of all cities from core outward. Like posted prior, Ise railing for bonus shields should transpire, but perhaps before connecting other cities we should get a rail to connect the fronts. After that then connect up other cities. I don't know how long peace will last but if Takada or Mori decide to let loose it would be great to be able to immediately put troops at the front. It is just a consideration I wanted t othrow out there for everyone to chew on.
On winning this game, I think having our 2 nice cores should get us to where we want to be. I would think our mfg output and production is near the top of board on F8, or is it F11. We can outproduce after we reach tech parity courtesy of, fingers crossed, the ToE.

 

[Shevek]

All comments duly noted and greatly appreciated.
I agree that we should do everything to get TOE. I will start a pre-build asap, probably in Ise (have no save here at work).

I hope to get my turn finished tonight but I cannot promise it. Me and my work mates are now heading off for a Xmas party/dinner (don't worry, I will not play intoxicated). Whether I will finish tonight will depend on when I manage to get home. As I will have to get up early in the morning (5.30am ) playing all night is not an option.
So please bear with me.

Edit: spelling

 

[TedJackson]

No need to rush Shevek.


Ted

 

[Shevek]

I didn't get anything done last night (the wine was quite good).
But I squeezed 3 turns in this morning before work and will finish it off and post tonight (GMT).

Just as a little teaser, we now have steam power and nationalism.

Until later

 

[barbslinger]

Nice. Cant wait to see it. We need to catch up in score and this might help do the trick. Great news Shevek!

 

[denyd]

Shevek, don't hurry, I kind of busy killing Koreans, Mongols, Baekje...

 

[Shevek]

Continued:
5. 900AD
switch Hamamatsu and New Lida to worker
establish embassy with Korea, they have 4 rifles in Seoul, 5 luxes, build police station
have a brain wave and get steam power by re-negotiating peace treaty with Korea and Goguryeo
Korea: steam power for peace treaty, 60gpt, 790gp
Gogu: nationalism for peace treaty, steam power, 75gpt
tech situation now
Takeda: up industrialisation, communism, democracy
Mori: up democracy, we are up steam power (we don't want them to have it, i think)
Shimazu: up industrialisation, communism, democracy
Chosogabe: up industrialisation, communism, democracy
Korea: up industrialisation, communism, democracy
Goguryeo: up democracy
Baekje: up democracy, down chemistry, economics, navigation
Han: up industrialisation, communism, democracy, electricity
Kuroda: they are way down

so electricity is out now, Han's military is average against ours, I doubt that we can use peace negotiation to weedle electricity out of them, and once peace is on the table it cannot be withdrawn anymore, a deal must be made
lone scientist on electricity

And yeeaahh, we have coal!!
And no, no iron works possible (if Koromositu was 1 tile more east it would have worked )
railing program initiated


IT
dyes deal with Chosogabe expires, is not re-newed
wool deal with Shimazu expires, re-new for 20 gpt
winegaki library -> cav
Kumano worker -> library
Komaki cav -> worker
Toyotomi harbor -> cannon
1 source of salpeter is exausted , now we have to rely on the single one on Kuki Isle

6. 910AD
switch Ise to palace as ToE pre-build (it was 1 turn from getting university but I think securing ToE is more important)
Let's hope that US is being finished soon, all AIs are building it and we do not want a cascade to ToE
Han have not traded electricity around yet

IT
Azuchi cav -> bank
Kukiyama rifle -> cav
Sakai 'duct -> cannon
Kasugai cannon -> library
Komaki worker -> cav
2 Chosogabe frigates and 2 kublais are approaching near Ogaki, wonder what they want

7. 920AD
worker moves
move some cavs towards Ogaki (just in case)
Takeda and Korea now have electricity
they will not accept any deal with all our money thrown in
the tech pace seems to be really fast now

IT
New Nagoya library -> worker
Koromosito explorer -> worker
The Chosogabe are surely planning an attack, another frigate/kublai pair approaching

8. 930 AD
worker moves
move cavs to cover our coast line (they surely will not have marines yes?)
Chosogabe have now electricity, too
Takeda: electricity for peace treaty, 990gp, 80gpt.
Gogu: industrialisation for electricity, 11gp, maps (all they had)
tech situation now
Takeda: up communism, democracy
Mori: up democracy, we are up steam power
Shimazu: up communism, democracy, we are up electricity
Chosogabe: up industrialisation, communism, democracy
Korea: up communism, democracy
Goguryeo: up democracy
Baekje: up democracy, down chemistry, economics, navigation
Han: up communism, democracy, replaceable parts :gasp:
Kuroda: they are way down

Sorry, I spent the piggy bank, but we have still 226gpt left and 87gp in the bank

IT
Mori wants us to move our boats out of their territory, OK
Suzuka cav -> cannon
Nagahama court -> cav
Kita-ku court -> cav
Shakasani market -> library
Moriyama-ku harbor -> cannon kublai
Choso land 5 cavs

9. 940 AD
worker moves
put more cavs into cities in reach of Chosogabe troops
MPP and ROP with Mori for industrialisation (go from furious to annoyed), if Choso attack they can help us and will not stab us in the back (so I hope)

IT
Takeda declare war
they attack Hamamatsu, kill 4 samurai, redline last sam defender, they loose 3 cavs
Shimazu and Chosogabe sign MPP
Chosogabe declare war on us
Mori declare on Choso and Takeda
Choso capture Ogaki killing 1 sam, 1 pike, 2 cavs without any loss
Choso land 3 more cavs and 1 sam
Embichi 'duct -> cav
Kwanaka cannon -> cannon
Moriyama-too cav -> cav
New Nagoya worker -> cannon

10. 950 AD
Ohhh dear, what a mess
The situation:
Takeda front looks really bad, they have loads of cavs, Hamamatsu is toast
Choso front looks better, Mori are running to our help and Choso have only limited troops over here
But if we attack the Choso we trigger their MPP with Shimazu

I do the coward thing and leave this mess for the next player. Sorry again.
No troops have been moved yet this turn.
Also there are 2 boats trying to reach our NE ports by going round Mori land
We have 486gp to spend on upgrades

And the hot potatoe

Edit: Firaxis score 1765

 

[denyd]

Yikes!!

This is going to be interesting. I'll try to fight a stalemate war and hope for peace with Takeda during my turns.

Hey, I thought Ted was supposed to get all the difficult turns

Got it

 

[TedJackson]

Good trading SheveK

Bummer about the Takeda

But that's Civ


Ted

 

[a space oddity]

Don't feel bad Shevek, this is turning into an interesting game.

Good luck, DenyD. Too bad we don't have our rails ready yet. We should think hard about logistics, these are of the essence now. We need to pull back to a defendable position and try to hurt Takeda as much as possible by using concentrated forces.

 

[barbslinger]

Don't gogury and the han still mave MPP with Takada too. Along with Choso's MPP with Shimazu we could be facing a 6 on 2. Perhaps we can get Some other MPP's and send out a sacrificial lamb to reverse it. Looks rough. Good luck all. I expect to have conquered Takada by the time it gets to me. Go team!

 

[Shevek]

I was wondering if I could have avoided the Takeda attack. It just came so out of the blue. Escpecially since they gave me a tech and peace treaty just the 2 turns before. I actually felt rather save from that side.
Well, looking at the bright side, we save 80gpt for another 18 turns now from the Takeda deal.

Ted, you are right, that is civ.

 

[Shevek]

I will be on Xmas holidays from 13 Dec to 27 Dec.
I might find the odd opportunity to check out CFC but will not be able to play
Please skip me during this time.

 

[denyd]

Ethics questions?

I've got a thought about Hammamatsu and I checked the GOTM rules and found nothing against it, but I thought I'd get the OK before pursuing the tactic.

My plan is to attack those 3 cavalry stacks next to Hammamatsu with all of the units that I can get there, leaving at least one unit in each stack (there's probably alot more there than I can attack, but I hope you get the idea), then before the turn ends give the city to the Baekje (I think he's the weakest AI left). That will transport all of the Hammamatsu units to the capital and remove the target from the Takeda's sights. Depending on the stacks next to Yok's Revenge, I might follow the same plan there. I would then try build a defensive line on the Kokomo, Koramitsu, Yaizu line in the north using the mountains in the south to slow down the Takeda advance. If this is successful, we'll be able to declare on the Baekje later and take those cities back easier than from Takeda.

I'm also hoping to be able to get MPP's with the Shimazu & Korea, to enlist some more allies in this battle. Since we are attacking only on our turf in the beginning, we shouldn't be activating any Takeda MPPs (right??). Probably not possible with the Han. The good news is that Takeda has probably switched to Communism (most AI do during war), so his science is going to suffer.

So beside from the holding action with Takeda in the east, chasing Chosogabe back into the sea, getting Scientific Method & the TOE any other requests?

 

[DaveShack]

I'm not positive but think I have activated a MPP against me by attacking in my own territory before. I'd very much like to be wrong on this...

 

[TedJackson]

@denyd

Not something that I've ever tried but I can see the point. Is it ethical? I really don't know.

As you say it's not against the rules - or even listed as an RBCiv exploit. It just kinda feels unethical/exploitative.

If I had to make a snap decision then I would vote against it.


Ted

 

[barbslinger]

From Shevek - "Takeda: electricity for peace treaty, 990gp, 80gpt."

Also, they probably used the 990gp for upgrades. If a higher GPT is available in the future from worldpowers I would try to restucture deal offered to high GPT / low gp.

I love the idea of gifting the city. Here small fry, have a taste of what it feels like living on the best continent.

 

[a space oddity]

Ethics, eh? Like Ted says, it feels exploitive. IRL noone would accept such a 'gift'. OTOH we are in a fix and the only way we can make something of this situation is getting others involved in war. Remember if we do use MPP with other (oversea) nations we'll be fighting the whole 20 turns because they won't feel the pain we do. In other words, we might very much need this tactic (which is I think is brilliant BTW DenyD ) to have a chance at all.

 

[denyd]

Well, I've spent 3 hours and turn 1 is done - lots of city builds got switched and catapults & spearmen upgraded, I'll see if I can get a little farther tomorrow night - It's not all bad news, but there's not a lot of bright spots. (personally, if playing this solo, I might pull the plug)

 

[Shevek]

In a solo game I might have pulled the plug, too. But I have seen SGs pulling out of greater pickles than this.
To be sure I am probably not skilled enough to do so. But we have some great players on the roster and therefore I think I am going to learn some new tricks.
I think Denyds gifting cities idea is quite brilliant. Would never have occured to me . Is it ethical? I don't know. But most good strategies exploit the AI in some way or another because they are too restricted to do anything really clever or even to respond appropriately. This is why they get all the AI bonuses. And this is why the human player needs to develop some 'unusual' ideas in order to have a chance. So yes, I think it should be allowed.