Kushan
Warlord
UPDATE: I just updated several things on the main post:
- Full unit list
- Leader list (WIP)
- Religions
Kushan
- Full unit list
- Leader list (WIP)
- Religions
Kushan
Medieval - Renaissance Mod
- Thread starter Kushan
- Start date
von Krügel
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2005
- Messages
- 1
Kushan said:
This idea of crowns replacing wonders is great. Really, really great; congratulations for having it.
I was wondering how you handle it: is it just an improvement built in a specific city, and you just have to invade the city to get the crown?
Or you could imagine a number of unique resources, spread on a given territory, that enable the player to claim a throne once he or she controls every unique resource (the control could be embodied by an improvement on the resource, like fief, giving extra commerce and hammers).
For example, imagine five unique resources called Paris, Picardy, Loire, Champagne and Normandy scattered on the French territory on the right historical places. If a player builds the fief improvement on each of the five resources, he can build the French Throne in one of his city for 0 hammer, giving him culture and knights.
If this city is taken
Well I dont know. The player should be able to keep the throne whatever happens, once he has built/claim it, BUT another player should be able to build/claim it if he controls the five resources.
The REALLY FUN thing is when a specific resource is required to claim two different thrones.
Do you think the whole idea is dumb or undoable?
Kushan
Warlord
I was just going to use a Great Wonder that was already preplaced, ex: King of France title would be in Paris. Who ever owns it would gain the benefit from the wonder in the from of a french knight and a cultural boost.
As for what type of knight you will recieve. As far as I know (very limited) a building/wonder/etc can only produce one type of unit for everyone who would control that wonder. So if your France, and you take the King of England title, your still going to recieve an English Knight. Which would be historic, as the only thing that would change would be the knights allegiance, not their style of fighting.
Kushan
As for what type of knight you will recieve. As far as I know (very limited) a building/wonder/etc can only produce one type of unit for everyone who would control that wonder. So if your France, and you take the King of England title, your still going to recieve an English Knight. Which would be historic, as the only thing that would change would be the knights allegiance, not their style of fighting.
Kushan
Does anyone else hate the use of "medieval infantry"? Wouldn't the use of Men-at-Arms be more accurate?
Really there would be two levels, because Men-at-Arms were considered almost the equivalent of horseless knights. They were professional soldiers, not just armed and untrained levies.
Should be like Footmen to replace medieval Infantry, and they upgrade to Men-at-Arms...
Really there would be two levels, because Men-at-Arms were considered almost the equivalent of horseless knights. They were professional soldiers, not just armed and untrained levies.
Should be like Footmen to replace medieval Infantry, and they upgrade to Men-at-Arms...
lifeaquatic
Conquistadore
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2004
- Messages
- 596
i agree
how close is this to a beta btw?
Hey man, sorry I didn't see this thread earlier. I studied the Byzantines a fair amount in college so if you have any questions about them PM me. As far as they are concerned, here are a few suggestions. 1) if you are going for hard-core accuracy, you might want to consider renaming them. The term Byzantine is a 19th century historical term. The Byzantines refered to themselves as the Empire of the Romans, as did all Muslim nations and most Europeans. They desperately held on to their Roman heritage. 2) As far as the crown wonders, you might want to give them the title Roman Emperor in Constantinople. The Holy Roman Emperor often refered to the Byzantine Emperor as Rex Graecorum (king of the Greeks), but this was a derogatory term. The title of Roman Emperor was a large source of pride for the Byzantines. 3) Constantinople should have some wonder to reflect the power/prestige of the Patriarch of the Eastern Church. He was a powerful figure that helped keep citizens loyal to the Emperor. The Hagia Sophia should also be a wonder in Constantinople, it was one of the more impressive buildings in the world at that time and was a symbol of Christianity for everyone in the East. 4)The second most important city in the Empire towards its end was Mystra, a town built in the hills overlooking ancient Sparta. The man who was next in line to be Emperor lived in the Palace of the Despots in Mystra (perhaps a forbiden palace style national wonder). Mystra was also a center of philosophical learning, where ancient Greek science was studied. It should definitely include an acadamy building.
1050 AD is after the battle of Manzikert, which is usually cited as the begining of the final decline of the empire, but it's only a few decades after it. They should stil be a force to be reckoned with at the starting point, and Constantinople was one of the greatest cities (if not the greatest) in the world. However, their military was somewhat out of date. The Byzantines had trouble with their elite leadership of the military. You will probably want to make their units weaker than those of other civs.
Anyway those are just some suggestions. As I said, PM me if you have any other ?s.
1050 AD is after the battle of Manzikert, which is usually cited as the begining of the final decline of the empire, but it's only a few decades after it. They should stil be a force to be reckoned with at the starting point, and Constantinople was one of the greatest cities (if not the greatest) in the world. However, their military was somewhat out of date. The Byzantines had trouble with their elite leadership of the military. You will probably want to make their units weaker than those of other civs.
Anyway those are just some suggestions. As I said, PM me if you have any other ?s.
Kushan
Warlord
PawelS said:
That throws a bit of a kink into things. Ok guys I'm going to have to stretch history here, as I apparently cant have that many civs.
/me aims his crosshairs at "uneeded civs,
/me targets Russia, BOOM
- Russia from my research wasnt really a united kingdom or nation, they were still primarily a scattered group on individual tribes. There lands will be probably be replaced by barbarians, assuming they dont count towards the faction limit.
/me targets the Califate of Cairo, BOOM
- There lands will be given to the Arabians.
/me targets India, BOOM
- There lands will be given to the barbarians.
If the barbarians do count towards the faction limit, then the areas opened up will either be left open, or will be given to another faction.
Ok I'll changed it then, I actually like that better.
Thanks, that will be vary usefull. I also got some Coat of Arms for some of the included faction. If I send them to you, could you maybe add them to each of a civilizations units? I'd personally like to see it on the shield. I want each unit to be unique to that civ, and I would like unique skins for them as well. Thanks again.
lysander: Thanks for the information, I'll take that into account.
Thanks for the input everyone. As for a beta, I hope to have it out by the end of the month, maybe as a christmass present
. I want it out sooner, but I'm trying to do this while being a member of another mod team, as well as managing my personal life.Kushan
Kushan
Warlord
Because I have changed Medieval Infantry to Foot man <Upgrades> => Man at Arms, I am considering removing the "Foot Knight" as a unit.
Kushan
Kushan
Shqype
Shqyptar
It seems odd that you would include Serbia over Albania , since Serbia at that time was much less significant. Their empire under Stefan Dushan lasted only 9 years , and did nothing for the rest of Europe , only for Serbia. The Albanians under Kastrioti , on the other hand , succeeded in defeating the most powerful army in the world for 25 years and actually saved Christianity from the Turks.
Plus, they kept relations with the Popes of the Catholic Church , the Hungarians, the Venetians , King Alfonso (Aragonese King of Naples) , and the Spanish. This would fit in nicely in your mod and maintain historical accuracy by allowing relations with the Kingdom of Aragon, the Papal States, and the Holy Roman Empire.
Plus, they kept relations with the Popes of the Catholic Church , the Hungarians, the Venetians , King Alfonso (Aragonese King of Naples) , and the Spanish. This would fit in nicely in your mod and maintain historical accuracy by allowing relations with the Kingdom of Aragon, the Papal States, and the Holy Roman Empire.
looking good so far, keep up the good work
I like a lot of the content you're putting in, the only concern I have is that you're almost turning this into EU2 for europe (not that I wouldn't like it that way though, I had fun playing crusader kings), but do note that this is CIV4 and has got lots of constraints (eg. the civ number cap), so my humble suggestion would be this:
reduce the number of civs in Europe and add more civs outside of europe
why?
short answer – less time spent fighting in Europe and more time conquering the world would suggest a funner, challenging game. Would be easier to balance out the game too.
Long answer – I played a game years back then, it was called Ghenghis Khan 4 (it was the fourth game of the series), made by KOEI (the same japan company that made dynasty warriors), and my friends and I loved it. Some aspects of the game even rivals Civ 2 back then (didn't have Civ 3 back then). Sadly, KOEI stopped developing the title and focused on Romance of the Three Kingdoms (which sucks more the further they develop it, its their tenth game of the same title now I think).
Back about that game, it played like civilzation and was turn based, and had a similar eurasian map. Most mechanics were relatively simple, but it was that simplicity that gave it its elegance and fun. I would draw a lot of reference from that game if I were making this scenario myself, but as explained before I dont have the time, so I'm having high hopes on your mod.
anyways, back to the point. ask yourself this question, would you want to play a game of brawling out of europe, just to find that there isn't much to conquer (but hundreds of “barbarian” cities) outside of it, or would you prefer to catastrophic clash of the east and west cultures? the game abovementioned chose the latter, and I would consider it the wiser choice. the game is just so much funner when you're able to conquer distant exotic lands (for example, having the crusades actually being able to invade, fight the jihad and conquer Jerusalem, instead of just templars vs teutonic knights). I mean, this was a period where the Mongols basically conquered the world, thus bringing eastern culture to the west. Think Marco Polo. Wouldn't it be fun if a European country could grow so strong it started invading the east? or even the human player playing as Saladin conquering Rome and then spread Islam in Japan? we even used to have *ultimate challenge* games using korea to conquer all the way to spain (korea was the weakest country, without disrespect, but we learnt how to master certain mechanics of the game, I didn't say the game was really that balanced).
Speaking of which, a jihad with be fun.
Basically I’m suggesting a resizing of the scope of the game and balancing Europe with the rest of the world. I know Europe’s going to be fun, but with real limits in Civ 4, you seem to be wanting to put too much in Europe already. I understand that we have a lot of Europeans in CFC, but please don’t be too swayed away by their suggestions in adding to Europe.
For your information, the year 1189 scenario (the third crusade and the rise of Mongols) of the abovementioned game included these countries (as far as I could remember):
Europe (the game only included “the factions that really mattered” in Europe, no disrespect to those not included)
Norway
Britain
France
The Holy Roman Empire
Poland (yes, it was in there, and I think there was a pretty good king as I recall)
(I think there was even Moscovy as well)
Spain
The Byzantine Empire (which had a cool greek fire btw)
Islamic spread
There was a sultanate spanning from North-West Africa to Tunis
And Saladin controlled Egypt to Jerusalem
Another sultanate controlled Baghdad
Another sultanate controlled the central asian part, including samarakand and parts of the silk road, and spanned to Mongolia (this was the empire where Genghis Kahn went on to conquer)
India
There was civil war going on and India was divided into north and south kingdoms
Mongolia
There were three tribes in Mongolia (representing the last major tribes before Genghis Kahn unified the tribes and set off to conquer the world)
China
It was the Soong dynasty in the south of the yangze, trying to fight off “barbarians” from Manchuria today. These barbarians, who built a “Kim” dynasty occupied the whole of northern China, originally lived in Manchuria, but were not the people who would later build the Qing dynasty. Only these two Chinese countries had cannons, which later spread to other countries.
Korea and Tibet
As they stood being bullied by its neighbours (no disrespect)
Japan
There was civil war going on, which soon unified and gave mounted samurai. Think the civ 3 scenario of Japanese warring states.
South east Asia
There was some warring going on between Vietnam and Thailand, but they never really got anywhere far.
This probably isn’t really historically accurate, but it gave a really fun game. Only really significant cities were included (choice of cities would be really tough for you), but land mass controlled was not proportionate to power. There were vast areas of empty land, thus allowing strategy. Imagine strong core cities and a few really small/weak surrounding cities with huge amounts of culture just to reflect area controlled (especially for central asian countries). Oh, you might want to control production tiles in the game though, just to keep certain cities strong and certain cities inhabitable/weak (like what rhye did by using special resources).
I would foresee the difficulty in a game of this scope as to how to keep the challenge when you already have a huge country and start invading smaller ones.
Also, the game simulated the Mongol horde rising by giving them keshiks that were almost the strongest units in the game. The best was a special order of knights that came from England, and the third was the normal knight from europe. I think there was also an Islamic mounted unit that was very strong as well. Horse archers, light mounted units, war elephants, camel riders were included. Other countries (such as China) used weak calvary units.
Please do consider my suggestions. Take it as a reference. I wouldn’t recommend you changing your chosen civilization list now though, and I have no intent to including Vietnam and Thailand as a playable civ either.
I look forward to your first release, I hope it becomes something that rivals rhye's civ.
I like a lot of the content you're putting in, the only concern I have is that you're almost turning this into EU2 for europe (not that I wouldn't like it that way though, I had fun playing crusader kings), but do note that this is CIV4 and has got lots of constraints (eg. the civ number cap), so my humble suggestion would be this:
reduce the number of civs in Europe and add more civs outside of europe
why?
short answer – less time spent fighting in Europe and more time conquering the world would suggest a funner, challenging game. Would be easier to balance out the game too.
Long answer – I played a game years back then, it was called Ghenghis Khan 4 (it was the fourth game of the series), made by KOEI (the same japan company that made dynasty warriors), and my friends and I loved it. Some aspects of the game even rivals Civ 2 back then (didn't have Civ 3 back then). Sadly, KOEI stopped developing the title and focused on Romance of the Three Kingdoms (which sucks more the further they develop it, its their tenth game of the same title now I think).
Back about that game, it played like civilzation and was turn based, and had a similar eurasian map. Most mechanics were relatively simple, but it was that simplicity that gave it its elegance and fun. I would draw a lot of reference from that game if I were making this scenario myself, but as explained before I dont have the time, so I'm having high hopes on your mod.
anyways, back to the point. ask yourself this question, would you want to play a game of brawling out of europe, just to find that there isn't much to conquer (but hundreds of “barbarian” cities) outside of it, or would you prefer to catastrophic clash of the east and west cultures? the game abovementioned chose the latter, and I would consider it the wiser choice. the game is just so much funner when you're able to conquer distant exotic lands (for example, having the crusades actually being able to invade, fight the jihad and conquer Jerusalem, instead of just templars vs teutonic knights). I mean, this was a period where the Mongols basically conquered the world, thus bringing eastern culture to the west. Think Marco Polo. Wouldn't it be fun if a European country could grow so strong it started invading the east? or even the human player playing as Saladin conquering Rome and then spread Islam in Japan? we even used to have *ultimate challenge* games using korea to conquer all the way to spain (korea was the weakest country, without disrespect, but we learnt how to master certain mechanics of the game, I didn't say the game was really that balanced).
Speaking of which, a jihad with be fun.
Basically I’m suggesting a resizing of the scope of the game and balancing Europe with the rest of the world. I know Europe’s going to be fun, but with real limits in Civ 4, you seem to be wanting to put too much in Europe already. I understand that we have a lot of Europeans in CFC, but please don’t be too swayed away by their suggestions in adding to Europe.
For your information, the year 1189 scenario (the third crusade and the rise of Mongols) of the abovementioned game included these countries (as far as I could remember):
Europe (the game only included “the factions that really mattered” in Europe, no disrespect to those not included)
Norway
Britain
France
The Holy Roman Empire
Poland (yes, it was in there, and I think there was a pretty good king as I recall)
(I think there was even Moscovy as well)
Spain
The Byzantine Empire (which had a cool greek fire btw)
Islamic spread
There was a sultanate spanning from North-West Africa to Tunis
And Saladin controlled Egypt to Jerusalem
Another sultanate controlled Baghdad
Another sultanate controlled the central asian part, including samarakand and parts of the silk road, and spanned to Mongolia (this was the empire where Genghis Kahn went on to conquer)
India
There was civil war going on and India was divided into north and south kingdoms
Mongolia
There were three tribes in Mongolia (representing the last major tribes before Genghis Kahn unified the tribes and set off to conquer the world)
China
It was the Soong dynasty in the south of the yangze, trying to fight off “barbarians” from Manchuria today. These barbarians, who built a “Kim” dynasty occupied the whole of northern China, originally lived in Manchuria, but were not the people who would later build the Qing dynasty. Only these two Chinese countries had cannons, which later spread to other countries.
Korea and Tibet
As they stood being bullied by its neighbours (no disrespect)
Japan
There was civil war going on, which soon unified and gave mounted samurai. Think the civ 3 scenario of Japanese warring states.
South east Asia
There was some warring going on between Vietnam and Thailand, but they never really got anywhere far.
This probably isn’t really historically accurate, but it gave a really fun game. Only really significant cities were included (choice of cities would be really tough for you), but land mass controlled was not proportionate to power. There were vast areas of empty land, thus allowing strategy. Imagine strong core cities and a few really small/weak surrounding cities with huge amounts of culture just to reflect area controlled (especially for central asian countries). Oh, you might want to control production tiles in the game though, just to keep certain cities strong and certain cities inhabitable/weak (like what rhye did by using special resources).
I would foresee the difficulty in a game of this scope as to how to keep the challenge when you already have a huge country and start invading smaller ones.
Also, the game simulated the Mongol horde rising by giving them keshiks that were almost the strongest units in the game. The best was a special order of knights that came from England, and the third was the normal knight from europe. I think there was also an Islamic mounted unit that was very strong as well. Horse archers, light mounted units, war elephants, camel riders were included. Other countries (such as China) used weak calvary units.
Please do consider my suggestions. Take it as a reference. I wouldn’t recommend you changing your chosen civilization list now though, and I have no intent to including Vietnam and Thailand as a playable civ either.
I look forward to your first release, I hope it becomes something that rivals rhye's civ.
lifeaquatic
Conquistadore
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2004
- Messages
- 596
will there be a beta soon?
NikG
SDK Lover
First great to see this! Going to love it!
But I have a few things that might be corrected.
- As a few has state before, The Kalmar Union, is just very wrong, and the name should be changed to Scandinavia, really, it just dont add up having The Kalmar Union has a civ, before 1300-something...
Scandinavia is much more generic.
- Having a "Viking" UU for Scandinavia is ... not very accurate either. Although they still were "alive" around 1050, most of Scandianvia settled down. The Normans (considered as Vikings by most people), were really desendentants from the Vikings, and really shouldnt be counting as real "Vikings".
Anyway I think Scandiavia should have a quite a few sea units as UU, because they (Denmark / Norway) were creat seafaring nations (not to insult the swedish, but they were much more "land-oriented").
Denmark had a quit saying in the early medieval periode, conquering Estonia early on (their capital Talinn actually means The Danish Castle(or directly translated The Danish People's Castle).
Quote by XanderLee
I must laugh at this! Norway didnt do anything after the "Viking age". This must a norwegian stating this... (sorry a little off-topic, but after they found oil, oh well...)
But I have a few things that might be corrected.
- As a few has state before, The Kalmar Union, is just very wrong, and the name should be changed to Scandinavia, really, it just dont add up having The Kalmar Union has a civ, before 1300-something...
Scandinavia is much more generic.
- Having a "Viking" UU for Scandinavia is ... not very accurate either. Although they still were "alive" around 1050, most of Scandianvia settled down. The Normans (considered as Vikings by most people), were really desendentants from the Vikings, and really shouldnt be counting as real "Vikings".
Anyway I think Scandiavia should have a quite a few sea units as UU, because they (Denmark / Norway) were creat seafaring nations (not to insult the swedish, but they were much more "land-oriented").
Denmark had a quit saying in the early medieval periode, conquering Estonia early on (their capital Talinn actually means The Danish Castle(or directly translated The Danish People's Castle).
Quote by XanderLee
I must laugh at this! Norway didnt do anything after the "Viking age". This must a norwegian stating this... (sorry a little off-topic, but after they found oil, oh well...)
Kushan
Warlord
NikG:
Already been done.
They viking units that I am inlcuding are meant to represent the few viking warriors that hadnt quite settled down yet. They'll be good to take a city or two before becoming obsolete.
C.Roland:Excellent work. Please send them to my email account and I will include them.
lifeaquatic:I pretty much have everythign set now, all I have to go do is go in and edit files. I cant really give a good estimate on a timeframe, as i'm trying to do this around working full time, school (college) full time, as well as spending time with my g/f. I'm going to do my best to get a woring version out before christmass though.
Also, I am looking for someone that has some experience with modding python. Some of the features I'm inlcluding require python editing, I just dont have the time to teach myself right know. If anyone is interested please let me now.
Kushan
Already been done.
They viking units that I am inlcuding are meant to represent the few viking warriors that hadnt quite settled down yet. They'll be good to take a city or two before becoming obsolete.
C.Roland:Excellent work. Please send them to my email account and I will include them.
lifeaquatic:I pretty much have everythign set now, all I have to go do is go in and edit files. I cant really give a good estimate on a timeframe, as i'm trying to do this around working full time, school (college) full time, as well as spending time with my g/f. I'm going to do my best to get a woring version out before christmass though.
Also, I am looking for someone that has some experience with modding python. Some of the features I'm inlcluding require python editing, I just dont have the time to teach myself right know. If anyone is interested please let me now.
Kushan
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