Mehmed Immortal Cookbook

actually too many spoilers not in spoiler tags, shame on you :-)

mehmed was my real favorite leader in CIV (actually my only victory on emperor) and I should try some game in CIV, so I will probably give it a shot.

I like SIP. I don't like coastal starts without fishing as starting tech. So it's obvious I will try something different :-), what a fiasco we all can expect!
 
So, was Kossin challenging us not to go for the GLH,

Back in my day, they used to tell me you can't build this (or any other wonders) on immortal because it would cause you to lose.

True story....
 
Had a go.
Did a decidedly non-wonder route.

Spoiler :

AH -> Mining -> BW -> pottery -> mystic -> fishing (I did a lil of IW, before doing fishing, shouldn't have got mystic IMO).
6 workers
2 cities, 1 settler about to settle, 2 more in 4 turns.

Thoughts:
Very very bad idea for mysticism, as not needed yet, and to block gilga, you can rely on the city no 2 tiles range. The fishing tech would help alot as well, as I could settle a 2nd city closer to work it (so have 3 cities already instead of 2), which can help grow cottage cap as well as just provide growth. With only gilga there, a trade bait strat doesn't seem to be the way to go. The main question now is, is gilga alone as well, or does he share with someone? I suspect he is alone, since at last glance he hadn't found or has a religion. In which case I'll just rex the land, go up astro and kill him when I can. Planning to cottage most of the greenland, there is a nice GP farm site up north.


Spoiler :

nWovS.jpg


If you notice the lil barb city down south-west, I will have to attack cross river >.>
 

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t70

Spoiler :
usual stuff -2 worker start, BW, settled wheat+pigs,
had a go at glh (sorry kos:p),collected cash from great wall, pyramids weren't a priority but i will complete them
currently-4 cities, 5 workers, 2 lighthouse, 2-2 axeman-warrior
laying down some cottages
empire pic
Civ4BeyondSword2010-11-2313-25-19-10.jpg


edit: now i realize my fourth city is in a pretty crappy location ,just wasn't paying attention to anything. also i switched to slavery but never whipped anything. stupiid,stupidd!!


ps -this looks like an ideal setup for a AW game.doesn't it?
 

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actually too many spoilers not in spoiler tags, shame on you :-)

mehmed was my real favorite leader in CIV (actually my only victory on emperor) and I should try some game in CIV, so I will probably give it a shot.

I like SIP. I don't like coastal starts without fishing as starting tech. So it's obvious I will try something different :-), what a fiasco we all can expect!

Good point... I'll stop pointing out things for now. (resisting the urge!!)

Also for everyone: please spoiler things that you can't know from t0.

Thank you!
 
Well after a bit of a break from playing Civ I though I'd give this a go.

Spoiler :


Settled in place. Tech path Ah, Min, BW, Myst, Pot, Sail, Mas and on way to writing.

Having a go at GLh in capital. Still have plenty of forests to chop. Which should have been pre-chopped but haven't. :)

No early happies are a slight problem but lots of ways round that. Gil has already settled in the North of the island so I guess he hasn't much room and a bit late just started a wb for exploring. Hopefully we can get to him. He knows at least one other civ from the lack of espionage points so more AI around.

The land isn't great but I have definitley seen a lot worse (lack of BUG Mod is more of a problem for me). Plan would be to go for a Jan/Cannon or Jan/Treb expansion later on. Getting 6 reasonable cities shouldn't be a problem for drafting/Oxford etc.

Notice one problem I used to have and still am always guilty of. Not using more chops to fuel my early expansion.

MehmedTurn700000.jpg


Edit. Could have done with a few more turns as didn't want to stop. :)

 

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Why is BULL so much better than BUFFY?
BUG + BULL is supposed to be roughly equivalent to BUFFY without the Hall of Fame part, as kossin said.

However, there are likely some minor differences, since BULL includes the BTS 3.19 Unofficial Patch. One difference that I have seen is that BULL will tell you about the AIs' Hidden Attitude modifiers--so you can see on the F4 GLANCE screen which AI likes or dislikes you or other AIs due to randomly-generated Attitude values when the map was generated.

Note that "BULL" is really just a different version of the "CvGameCoreDLL.dll" file--installing it is similar in concept to installing the "CvGameCoreDLL.dll" from BTS if you only have Vanilla but want to partcipate in the Vanilla Game of the Month games.


It isn't so much a question of why BUG + BULL are better than BUFFY, though, it's more that in order to participate, you won't be able to use the BUFFY Mod. So, rather than play the unmodded version of the game, which gives a very miserable version of the F4 GLANCE page that BUFFY has, you can get the same page using BUG.

BUG doesn't quite have all of the changes that BUFFY has, though, even if we discount the Hall of Fame portion of BUFFY, so throwing in BULL will apparently give you everything... plus a couple of extras like the Hidden Attitude modifiers information.


Note that when I was getting BUG + BULL set up, we talked about it at the URL that I just linked. You can find the relevant part of the conversation from Messages 123 through 128. There, you will find some batch files that you can use to make the process of running either BTS + BUG + BULL or BTS + BUFFY a simple double-click solution.
 
Playthrough to T70 attached. The spoiler BTW is essentially in two parts. For those who want it, there’s a very short executive summary of what I tried to do. That’s followed by a longer description of events where I’ve also outlined my thought process. Hopefully, this will enable someone to see where I’ve gone wrong (which shouldn’t be too difficult to spot :lol:) and let me know what I can do to improve. :) Thanks meanwhile go to Dhoomstriker for your opening thoughts...I’m always forgetting what buildings a particular trait speeds up!

Spoiler :
Executive summary: I SIP’d, started a worker and switched to a WB when fishing came in. Tech path then went AH > mining > BW > masonry > sailing > mysticism > writing and I settled a city to grab some stone and build the mids in the capital. Currently trying to finish the GLH and am four turns from writing, researching which has been aided by failure gold from the GW. Met Gilgamesh and I don’t think he’s alone.

Opening thoughts: Thought about settling 1W and cottaging the FPs but have begun to realise that the low happy cap at higher levels can mean that raw hammers are preferable to the combination of early cottaging and relying on the whip (of non-cottage tiles) for production. If avoiding early cottages in favour of hammers, it didn’t seem clear to me that there was sufficient incentive to burn a turn to move 1W onto a forested grassland tile, so I SIP’d. Noticing jungle off to the NE, I sent the starting warrior off to explore SE, mindful of my recent experience in the latest Nobles Club game where what I thought was a dead end turned out to be a narrow strip of land, behind which was an AI. Capital started on a worker (working a FP) and researching fishing for the clams.

Early moves: After borders popped and fishing finished, I halted the capital’s production of a worker and commenced a WB, changing the tile worked to the forested plains hill. Starting warrior explored SE and found stone but no AI. Research was directed to AH to access the pigs (and see if horses were nearby). WB finished and clams were worked whilst capital recommenced worker. Worker started work on the pigs and research was directed to mining to access the hammers from the plains hill. Capital built a warrior whilst growing.

Worker mined plains hill and then farmed a FP whilst research was directed toward BW (to enable chopping and search for copper when AH revealed no nearby horses). Thankfully, plains hill revealed copper after finishing BW. Capital finished warrior (working pigs, clams and mined plains hill) and built another whilst growing onto (what would become a farmed) FP. First warrior was sent to what would be stone city. Commenced research into masonry to access the stone. Worker finished farming the FP and commenced road into stone city. Capital finished second warrior (to garrison capital) and started on settler for stone city.

Stone city was settled so worker roaded in stone and built a quarry. Stone city then built a warrior for fogbusting the city’s SW, working forested plains (until stone was quarried). Stone city’s production was then directed into GW for failure gold and the city’s garrison moved outside the city to fogbust stone city’s NE. The capital meanwhile built two axes for fogbusting and then another worker (to accelerate chopping). This meant the capital was working unimproved tiles for a time, but I figured this was better than risking being overrun by barbs.

With masonry researched and the stone quarried, both workers chopped into the mids and mined the capital’s hills whilst research was directed into sailing. (Ideally, chops would’ve gone into the GLH which I find goes earlier but no sailing meant they went into the mids instead.) Once sailing was researched, one chop got redirected into a lighthouse (to benefit from the organized bonus, so it was finished in one turn – thanks again for your OP Dhoomstriker :goodjob:). Noticing that the GLH still hadn’t gone by that stage, I put the next turn’s production after the lighthouse got built into the GLH, because I recall reading somewhere on the forum that the AI scans everyone to see if anyone has started a wonder before deciding if an AI will build it. With that in mind, I thought that if the GLH hadn’t actually been started yet, this might delay them building it. At worst, I thought doing this might give me some failure gold. After investing one turn of hammers into the GLH, future hammers and chops were directed back into the mids until they were completed.

With sailing researched meanwhile, tech went mysticism to enable a monument to be built in stone city for a border pop. Whilst researching mysticism, someone finished the GW so I received some failure gold to help research. Decided at that point to tech writing next to grab early access to a library and some representation boosted scientists.

Once the mids came in, I recommenced building the GLH – again, at worst, this will provide some failure gold. I also revolted into slavery and representation; I wonder however if this should’ve been done after I finished making my run at the GLH.

Workers are now set to make further chops into the GLH and, having finished it’s monument, I’ve put a WB into stone city’s build queue. Not sure if this is right but it reflects my belief that two factors suggest that Gilgamesh is not alone: (i) he’s become Hindu but hasn’t founded the religion and (ii) Mehmed has EP on him. The plan is therefore to finish the WB, OB with Gilgamesh and see who else is out there.
 

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Discussion Points for Round 1:

Spoiler :


1. Placement of second city. There seems to be some pretty consistent second city placement in second city, namely the southeastern peninsula. However, I'm interested to hear how people chose where they did. I chose to settle on the southeastern coast because I wanted pigs and wheat in the small cross. I didn't have mysticism and wasn't planning on getting it and I prefer settling with food nearby for early growth. I see a lot of the veteran players chose to have stone in the small cross and thus forgo having any food. How did you make that choice? Is having stone worth it? I think settling there really kills some later cities. By settling on the southern coast I've enabled a good second city that uses the rice, whereas settling for the stone claims pretty much that whole tract of land. On the other hand, settling for the stone enables a quick build of the

2. Great Wall. This is a wonder I very rarely build. The great spy is nice. But I rarely fight wars in my borders nerfing the great general bonus and I prefer to fight barbs with units rather than the wall. Having units also has the bonus that I can do stuff with them later (like declare war). If the great wall worked for water borders too, that would be awesome and I'd build it every game, but land barbs usually aren't that big a problem for me. (I never play deity, :-p). The other thing stone could be used for is

3. The Pyramids. Some of you guys really like these things. I don't build them that much. Mostly because I prefer cottaging to scientists, but also because they're hella expensive. I definitely think the GL is a super build in this game because we're going to have a ton of coastal cities and all our foreign trade routes are going to be intercontinental. But I'm not so sold on the pyramids. Wouldn't it be better to get a few more settlers out and claim as much of the island as we can? Why did you guys who build the pyramids chose to do so?


 
@Benginal
Spoiler :

1. I settled on the stone (which isn't necessarily the best choice, btw). Several reasons:
  • I may not have even seen the wheat yet, as my initial warrior got killed by a lion, and the second one got hit as soon as it left the BFC. In any case, my mind was made up before I spotted the wheat and I didn't try reconsidering.
  • 2hpt city tile and no need for quarry. Also multiple hills in the BFC, so solid production city.
  • I was stupidly forcing myself to play without GLH and so didn't care as much about coastal as I might.
  • Spare worker turns to chop out a monument instantly, and I had some plan for building a worker there immediately, which could be done in the time it took to pop borders. Settling next to a food is obviously much better with non-CRE in most situations.
  • It's actually a tricky one to dotmap very efficiently. My fish city in the south will suck, for instance. Your rice city will probably suck just as much.
That's all I can think of.

2. I also never build GW (this might, in fact, be my first time in a non-RagingBarb game). I didn't even intend to build it, tbh. I had some ideas for maybe getting SH, maybe throwing a lot of overflow into Pyramids, maybe into GW for fail cash, on the turn I got Masonry. SH was gone by then and I lined up some massive hammer overflow - enough for a 1t GW. At that moment it seemed like:
  • I might still have some barb trouble. I had lost 3 warriors already, didn't feel like building any axes, and hadn't fully explored the extents of the jungle.
  • We might be isolated with Gilgamesh and I liked the idea of a Great Spy.
  • Since I was kinda screwing off in this game - it was just cool to build a wonder in 1t. :D

3. Well, don't know what to say there, since it's personal opinion. Early rep is beyond awesome. You have to try playing without cottages. Here it's quite good. We don't have much land to cottage pre-IW, we have cities with 2 food each early on, there are no happy resources that can be easily acquired, economy will probably be slow in the early game...
 
Discussion Points for Round 1:
IMO
Spoiler :

1.i settled my second city entirely for the purpose of assisting rex. given the no. of food sources in that area ,i think it is better to split them in two cities.
that would entirely negate the need of mysticism which can ofcourse be acquired later on from trades.

2.i don't think anyone would have purposely thought of building great wall here, given that we have copper in the BFC.
but building it for fail gold is also suboptimal as i think those hammers could have gone in settlers which will be settled eariler and end up giving more amount of gold (in form of research) with help of glh.

3.pyramids are almost always good, and we have stone and land that can be blocked and settled later at ease so i think pyramids are a win here. those rep specialists are just huge if you know how to handle them.
really, those specialists can outperform 'land' if u know what i mean.
 
my round.
btw great map kossin, really really great I like it!

Spoiler :


I sent scout 1NE just to be sure, then SIP with worker first.
Techs went AH->min->BW->myst->masonry->writing.
I have to say I am really sorry I didnt get those mids and so many forrests went without stone bonus because of poor scouting I settled the stone in a bad way :-(. To be honest I am going to give the game another run through and this time settle the 2nd city to have stone in 1st ring!
I actually had enough worker turns to have stone and 2nd city connected with road presettling that spot, so go figure :-(. I wouldnt need myst before masonry etc. I am sure I would have the mids... well I don't.
I even had to switch to slavery for whipping that monument (otherwise I wouldnt switch and wait for switch to rep to have 1 turn anarchy for 2 civics)

The land to north seems great, so I would think about IW next powered with rep specs (if i would have them).

Well that's it. I am really sad person because the save could be much much better.

 
My round, had to reload once :] 3 cities and no GLH (yet)

I submit just to have a right to vote :)

Spoiler :

I settled in place (coastal and another +2 health for fresh water)
Teched: Fishing, AH, Mining, BW, Mysticyzm, Sailing, Masonry, Pottery, now working on Writing

Production: Warrior (partly), Fishing boat, fiished warrior, settler, worker, worker, warior, axe, settler, lighthouse (or at least similar).

Now: poor exporation, but have contact with Gilgamesh
Number of settlements: 3, but no buldings in them, except 1 monument to pop borders for stone
Capital: 2 turns for lighthouse.

Plans - i think Great Lighthouse would be mine for sure, as only I pop borders to reach stone and chop the forests - just few turns to have it completed. The AI would not build great lighthouse propably, as they already built stonehenge, great wall, temple of artemid

Current "empire"
civ4screenshot0005k.jpg

Next cities to settle
civ4screenshot0006r.jpg

Stambul
civ4screenshot0007c.jpg

Edirne
civ4screenshot0008t.jpg

 

Attachments

Attached is my save.

Spoiler :
I built TGLH and I'm about 8 turns from the 'Mids. I have two cities settled and two settlers in the queue. I have a unit up to 6 experience points. I'm leaving the west un-fog busted in the hopes of getting a 10 experience unit from the barbs.
 

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this way it could have been if I played it more wisely the plan I had

(just shadow)

Spoiler :

got Mids at T62, probably should have whip library in capital but I decided on slow build (4T) then I would work 2 scientists with rep (already switched)
techs went as 1st try but without myst
 
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