Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (cont)

[Noldodan]

Well then, if we're going to be doing the techs now, I suppose that we should get started. Just a list for now, you can refine placements and prerequisites later.

1st Age
Forging
Sword Tech 1
Missile Tech 1
Cavalry Tech 1
Sword Tech 2
Missile Tech 2
Cavalry Tech 2
Artistry
Masonry
Stone Shaping
Ainulindale
Valaquenta
Jewel Making
Tengwar
Runes
Lore of Aman
Shipbuilding
Oath of Feanor
Orcs
Evil Superbeings (?)

Time of the Rings
Blast Furnace
The Nine Rings
The Seven Rings
The Three Rings
The One Ring
Elven Supremacy
Wreck of Beleriand

Time of the Numenoreans
Supremacy of Man
Elven Fading
The Ban
Sea Exploration
Seige Engines
Last Alliance

Third Age
Sword Tech 3
Missile Tech 3
Cavalry Tech 3
Orcish Advancement
Seige Engines 2
Blasting Fire


Hmmm, seems to be a rather short list, doesn't it? Perhaps we should make the tech paradigm really high? The reason why everything is crammed into the First Age is because, simply, it was! Most of the important advances were in the first age. Also, we never really paid attention to siege units. Battering rams and catapults should fulfill this role quite nicely.

 

[embryodead]

please no "sword tech 69" techs, it looks.. lame (sorry). I noticed that in Fantasy Empires mod and didn't like it from the beginning. There are ways to be more elastic, not like Tech 1 -> 2 -> 3.

Although historical tech names look much butter, not sure if you can find use for all of them (like all those ring techs, or Elven Fading tech). I think it should be done in reverse order ie. not think of techs and then their usage but rather what techs do you need to implement all ideas.

Here are links to two screenshots from my WH fantasy mod. They're from really early stage but you can see some ideas there, also some icons you might find useful. Various units advances appear with techs suchs as: Warrior Code, Iron Working, Riding, Chivalry, Invention (crossbows), War Mastery (chariots, adv. infantry, berserkers), Dogs of War (mercenaries), Nature Lore (rangers, treemen), Aerial Combat (griffins), Awakening (dragons), Conjuration (demons), Elementalism (elementals), Necromancy (undead) etc. This is based on WH world but something similiar can be done for LotR.. if any1 likes it of course.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/techtree1.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/techtree2.jpg

 

[embryodead]

[umm.. delete this one, acctidental post]

 

[mrtn]

Originally posted by embryodead
please no "sword tech 69" techs, it looks.. lame (sorry). I noticed that in Fantasy Empires mod and didn't like it from the beginning. There are ways to be more elastic, not like Tech 1 -> 2 -> 3.

I totally agree, it is possible to invent better names. 'Military Formations' could be one tech, 'Infantry Tactics' another, just to throw out names at random.

Originally posted by embryodead
Although historical tech names look much butter, not sure if you can find use for all of them (like all those ring techs, or Elven Fading tech).

Another problem is that the tech name should give you at least a hum about what the tech is about. I don't know what the 'Valaquenta' is, and the mod should be possible to play, even if you haven't read the Silmarillion.

Originally posted by embryodead
I think it should be done in reverse order ie. not think of techs and then their usage but rather what techs do you need to implement all ideas.

Once again I agree.

Originally posted by embryodead
Here are links to two screenshots from my WH fantasy mod...

Seems interesting. I'd like that Mining icon, it's clearer than what I've found before. On the other hand I think the Siege icon looks like a "line man" (don't know the English here). It seems like your WH mod will be quite similar to my Magnamund mod (not surprisingly, as they're both based on fantasy games).

If you'll follow the 'Magnamund Map' link in my sig you find, in the later posts in that thread, links to tech icons and the tech tree for the first era.

And I still want to see some building ideas from all of you!

 

[Noldodan]

Regarding the two points brought up: I'm sorry, I was feeling uncreative. Feel free to replace my lame tech names. As to the tech names, I don't know what we would use them for. And to clear things up, Valaquenta and Ainulindale would be like Mysticism and Polytheism in Civ3, just prerequisite techs to a government or (as I would like to see) Jewel Making.

 

[AlcTrv]

Well, theres different ways of making swords, for example, and different kinds of swords.

Example

~~Infantry~~
Broad Swoard
Two-Handed Sword
Long Sword

Or how the samurais made/make their swords, so they're so sharp

~~Archery~~
Bow
Longbow
Crossbow

~~Cavalry~~
Saddle
Reins
Stirups

~~Defense~~
Spearman
Pikeman
Skirmisher





Also, some random tech names I've been thinking of
Orc Breeding
Breeding Pits
Uruk-hai Breeding
Red Book of Wechmark


Dont forget BOATS!
And for aerial units, most civs dont have them, though I would like Hobbit Catapult Troop (WHEEEEEEE!) But like dragons


AND HAVE THE NAZGUL! Make them unique units, and Sauron starts with 9. I included there names in the last thread. Make them require a resource which doesnt exist, so that they cant build more of them. And a tech which upgrades them to winged nazgul, in which they become aerial units. Oh well

 

[AlcTrv]

BTW, I know thats not the legalname. Know what it is

 

[mrtn]

Originally posted by AlcTrv
...AND HAVE THE NAZGUL! Make them unique units, and Sauron starts with 9. I included there names in the last thread. Make them require a resource which doesnt exist, so that they cant build more of them. And a tech which upgrades them to winged nazgul, in which they become aerial units. Oh well

About the techs: Yes, something like that.

The nazgul can be preplaced in Mordor's capital and be immobile. If they have zero upkeep the AI will hopefully not disband them. In the third era they can be upgraded to riding Nazgul (which can move), and later be upgraded to Winged Nazgul. They should need a special resource (called Winged Beast? ) which is placed at Barad Dûr, so Mordor won't upgrade them somewhere in the Shire or something, they need to return to Mordor first. This should work, and we don't want any nazguls riding around in the first era, do we?

 

[Fier Canadien]

Well, technicaly speaking, the Nazgul could be some of the rebel Maïar of Melkor who were sevants to Sauron. I know that they have nothing to do with actual Nazguls, but this would be nice to give them a meaning in the first age.

 

[Mithadan]

Good Nazgul idea, mrtn.

Edit (the other Canuck posted at the same time as me): with Balrogs running around in the First Age, and Dragons being bred by ol' buddy Evil, I don't think we need relevant Nazgul any earlier than the third age.

 

[AlcTrv]

Yey! I was of SOME USE! MY PURPOSE IN LIFE IS ACHEIVED!

 

[PCHighway]

Err... That was strange... (ignore post, PC messed up)

 

[PCHighway]

Ok, my bad, CFC messed up . I'll wait till the problem is fixed. For those interested it keeps putting my new posts in the wrong place.

 

[Kindred72]

Just a suggestion, but, if you could get some people to make munits out of some of the fantasy units you could have yourself more units to use. I've looked at it, and it seems way too complicated to me.

 

[embryodead]

die munits die! :die:

 

[PCHighway]

I’m not so sure you can upgrade a unit if you can’t build it. If it’s possible, perhaps 3 upgrades? One that makes the riders mobile, and another on the beasts?
That what I said, like we could use the units as a 'horde' or something, if you researched a 'logistic' tech, that would cost a lot. It would give you units in some formation, like an army. But mrtn said something was wrong with it, I can't remember though.

 

[mrtn]

Originally posted by PCHighway
I’m not so sure you can upgrade a unit if you can’t build it.

Yes, we need to check this. Good catch.

Originally posted by PCHighway If it’s possible, perhaps 3 upgrades? One that makes the riders mobile, and another on the beasts?

I think we mean the same thing. Three units in a upgrade-chain only upgrades two times. Or do you mean we should have four different units?

Originally posted by PCHighway
That what I said, like we could use the units as a 'horde' or something, if you researched a 'logistic' tech, that would cost a lot. It would give you units in some formation, like an army. But mrtn said something was wrong with it, I can't remember though.

The only thing I said was wrong with it was the same thing as embryodead said so colourful. I think you should have only munits or no munits at all, some munits just look strange.

 

[Fier Canadien]

Mmmm… Maybe only Orcs untis could be munit? Orcs were only unseful when in enormous number.

But, would it make sense to have one elf fighting two or three orcs?

 

[Arathorn]

You can upgrade a unit you can't build, as long as you can build the upgraded unit (e.g. whatever resource requirements the upgraded unit has, you have available). For example, if the initial unit requires Dark Matter and iron, but the upgrade only requires iron, you can upgrade to it, if you have iron. Of course, the upgrade, not requiring Dark Matter, can be freely built, which is a bit of a problem for Nazguls. Let me think on that one a bit.

Building suggestions....

First, categorize them. Research-improving buildings, happiness buildings, production improving buildings, corruption-fighting buildings, military buildings, other buildings.

Do you want universal buildings or race-specific? In many ways, race-specific make more sense, but they will be a fair bit more work that way. Since most of the units are race-specific (from what little of the threads I've read so far), why don't we make the buildings that way, too? Or a mix'n'match?

Available to all would be things like barracks and harbors.

Example: Elvish buildings....
- Light to the Stars -- available very early, gives 1 happy face
- Narya -- Small Wonder -- functions like Forbidden Palace
- Other two rings work the same (as an idea, since the Three served to remove the world-weariness of the elves, which I see as corruption effecting elves)
- Smithy -- add 25% to production (pre-req for one of the Three?)
- Ancient Knowledge (Ancient Person?) -- +50% research

(Yes, this is very Third Age specific. If you want to go older, you have things like the Light of the Stars as a Wonder of the World, giving happiness. Or things of that nature, but following the storyline as Tolkien wrote it is too difficult, IMO.)

Hobbits:
- Museum (bonus to happiness?)
???

Men
- Palantiri to act as FPs for them (less than the full 7, probably)
- Many of the Civ3 buildings would be appropriate here, I think

Sauron (Morgoth?)
- Breeding Pits (ideally would make unit costs cheaper but not affect shield cost of buildings. I have no idea if that is possible.)
- Forge (production bonuses)
- Prisons (anti-corruption, like courthouses. Maybe even like Police Stations, with anti-war-weariness, too.)

Dwarves:
- Forges (production bonus)
- Markets (cash bonus)
- Mines (cash bonus)


Beyond that, though, I want to open a whole 'nuther can-of-worms, and ask if it's possible/desirable to REALLY make the races different.

For example, Hobbit workers require no population to build. Dwarvish towns take double food to grow (so 80 instead of 40). Elvish settlers require 3 pop to make, so that they would flourish with large cities but then diminish gradually (I think would ge the game effect, unless they go a-conquering). With these ideas, razes instead of captures would almost have to be the rule. Can that be done?

You can do a lot more things with these ideas....

I hope I contributed a bit -- a starting point, if nothing else. Plus, it's an easy way to subscribe to this thread!

Arathorn

 

[mrtn]

Originally posted by Arathorn
... Let me think on that one a bit.

Sure.

Originally posted by Arathorn
... Building suggestions....

First, categorize them. Research-improving buildings, happiness buildings, production improving buildings, corruption-fighting buildings, military buildings, other buildings.

Do you want universal buildings or race-specific? In many ways, race-specific make more sense, but they will be a fair bit more work that way. Since most of the units are race-specific (from what little of the threads I've read so far), why don't we make the buildings that way, too? Or a mix'n'match?

Making race specific units is easy. Making race specific buildings is hard, hard, hard. We'd have to make race-specific tech trees for that. I think it's better to name them something generic, but give them some special look.

Originally posted by Arathorn
... I hope I contributed a bit -- a starting point, if nothing else. Plus, it's an easy way to subscribe to this thread!

Welcome aboard sir!