Mighty Suryavarman II
- Thread starter vranasm
- Start date
I was just being 'up beat' about our position in order to fend off complaints about why the 'heck' we declared war 'hecking' half-a-dozen turns ago and taken only one 'hecking' city! 
... but then again;
Mama always told me
Be careful who you love
Be careful what you do
Because a lie becomes the truth
... but then again;
Mama always told me
Be careful who you love
Be careful what you do
Because a lie becomes the truth
Had a look, luckily it seems rather straightforward. 
MM Angkor Thom to build HE in 2 rather than 3 turns and build cuirs exclusively everywhere otherwise. Heal up current units then romp through Arabia. My doubt is whether to keep Narjan or not, it looks rather badly placed. In any case, I'll likely start with Mecca and Bagdad anyway though.
I'm wondering about whether Cheju can/will flip back to the Koreans as we captured it from the Arabs... Maybe no need to gift it away, but I guess if it can flip, not worth it to put an enormous garrison in it to prevent it from doing so, right?
MM Angkor Thom to build HE in 2 rather than 3 turns and build cuirs exclusively everywhere otherwise. Heal up current units then romp through Arabia. My doubt is whether to keep Narjan or not, it looks rather badly placed. In any case, I'll likely start with Mecca and Bagdad anyway though.
I'm wondering about whether Cheju can/will flip back to the Koreans as we captured it from the Arabs... Maybe no need to gift it away, but I guess if it can flip, not worth it to put an enormous garrison in it to prevent it from doing so, right?
vranasm
Deity
I would go straight for the ivory...
The evidence before the court is incontrovertible,
there's no need for the Jury to retire.
Exhibit A:
Exhibit B:
Exhibit C:
Exhibit D:
Of course all this cost a couple of more cuirs than you'd like, but against protective muskets and LBs without siege you're bound to have to sacrifice some units.
In the beginning of the set the Germans got a southern Arab city and soon after signed peace. Saladin is more than ready to capitulate, but is only left with 2 cities. After we heal up our units we can capture them soon enough, so I'd go for the complete kill.
On the inherited turn Justinian and Wang each asked us to declare on the other, both were sent packing as we had our hands full. The AP vote to declare on Mansa failed.
I renegotiated a gpt deal for sheep with Wang, now it's sheep+marble for 2 happies, as we needed those.
I traded Gunpowder (widely known by then) to Justinian for banking+compass+wm+15g.
Chemistry came in and went 0% research on steel for the remainder of turns. Here's the tech situation.
On the last turn the AP showed up again, asking to stop trading with Mansa, voted no.
Built nearly exclusively cuirs, apart from the HE and a market in the capital.
there's no need for the Jury to retire.
Exhibit A:
Spoiler :
Exhibit B:
Spoiler :
Exhibit C:
Spoiler :
Exhibit D:
Spoiler :
Of course all this cost a couple of more cuirs than you'd like, but against protective muskets and LBs without siege you're bound to have to sacrifice some units.
In the beginning of the set the Germans got a southern Arab city and soon after signed peace. Saladin is more than ready to capitulate, but is only left with 2 cities. After we heal up our units we can capture them soon enough, so I'd go for the complete kill.
On the inherited turn Justinian and Wang each asked us to declare on the other, both were sent packing as we had our hands full. The AP vote to declare on Mansa failed.
I renegotiated a gpt deal for sheep with Wang, now it's sheep+marble for 2 happies, as we needed those.
I traded Gunpowder (widely known by then) to Justinian for banking+compass+wm+15g.
Chemistry came in and went 0% research on steel for the remainder of turns. Here's the tech situation.
Spoiler :
On the last turn the AP showed up again, asking to stop trading with Mansa, voted no.
Built nearly exclusively cuirs, apart from the HE and a market in the capital.
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Muy Bien!
You scared me when you said you built HE in the Cap...ha (edit: at least i read it that way...it's in the the right place )
We might consider putting some beakers into Econ and getting it in a peace deal with Sal. We have to take his SW city regardless because of culture. We can leave him with 1 city clean him out later. Yeah, don't vassal him.
We don't have the ivory quite yet. AT some point we need to pillage iron or horses to build Ballistas.
I say we go for Justy next. he has some nice wonders.
You scared me when you said you built HE in the Cap...ha (edit: at least i read it that way...it's in the the right place
)We might consider putting some beakers into Econ and getting it in a peace deal with Sal. We have to take his SW city regardless because of culture. We can leave him with 1 city clean him out later. Yeah, don't vassal him.
We don't have the ivory quite yet. AT some point we need to pillage iron or horses to build Ballistas.
I say we go for Justy next. he has some nice wonders.
vranasm
Deity
thanks nocho for the TS, I guess it's my turn now to kill the game a bit so we don't finish too soon.
will check tomorrow since it's 1:30 am here now and getting tired (actually that LHC immortal wasn't best thing to do before going to bed, right now I feel like I don't know how to play this game)
will check tomorrow since it's 1:30 am here now and getting tired (actually that LHC immortal wasn't best thing to do before going to bed, right now I feel like I don't know how to play this game)
Gracias, amigo!
Yeah, I've said less ambiguous things in my lifetime. I'll add parenthesis next time... What I meant was:You scared me when you said you built HE in the Cap...ha (edit: at least i read it that way...it's in the the right place
not
vranasm
Deity
guys got some flu with some exhaustion from not enough sleep... if you don't mind I have to delay the TS a bit...
or if someone has time he can take over.
or if someone has time he can take over.
vranasm
Deity
ok checking the save...
we could get Economics for Saladdin's capitulation
WK is close to Grens and has already cuirs.
Bismarck doesn't have nat, doesn't have chemistry, so he can have muskets and lb's. He has AP and Mids though.
we have 21 cuirs.
Soooo I think we should take the Sal's capitulation and demand the ivory from Saladdin as tribute (this one I didn't check).
Rebuilt army a bit and move towards Bismark. We could make sneak attack towards berlin+hamburg from MM land.
As for techs... I would switch into RP->Rifling probably.
I would play around 10 turns hopefully getting army in the position to sneak attack berlin (i would send there those ~20 cuirs) every new cuir will be prepared in north to push towards northern cities of Bismarck.
what you guys think?
we could get Economics for Saladdin's capitulation
WK is close to Grens and has already cuirs.
Bismarck doesn't have nat, doesn't have chemistry, so he can have muskets and lb's. He has AP and Mids though.
we have 21 cuirs.
Soooo I think we should take the Sal's capitulation and demand the ivory from Saladdin as tribute (this one I didn't check).
Rebuilt army a bit and move towards Bismark. We could make sneak attack towards berlin+hamburg from MM land.
As for techs... I would switch into RP->Rifling probably.
I would play around 10 turns hopefully getting army in the position to sneak attack berlin (i would send there those ~20 cuirs) every new cuir will be prepared in north to push towards northern cities of Bismarck.
what you guys think?
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If we cap Sal, we still want to hold onto Mecca. I'm fine giving him all his other cities. Revolt will be a problem initially, but we can build culture and whip in some culture buildings and also station our troops there as we gear up to take on Justy or Mansa or Biz. Do we really want to attack Biz?
We will need to get some MP in Mecca.
We will need to get some MP in Mecca.
vranasm
Deity
well I wasn't thinking giving cities back, just to consolidate army and stuff.
Well to me it seems that war with WK or MM would be drag without clear tech advantage, otoh we should have clear one over Biz and he has Mids and AP which could be captured.
But just throwing ideas around... I think my TS will be mostly builder one.
Well to me it seems that war with WK or MM would be drag without clear tech advantage, otoh we should have clear one over Biz and he has Mids and AP which could be captured.
But just throwing ideas around... I think my TS will be mostly builder one.
vranasm
Deity
The TS is played (was shorter around 8 turns and I have to admit I initially planned to play split TS, so if the team agrees I would play around 5-7 turns more of war preparation after consultation).
I decided to stick with the former strategy of wiping the floor with Saladdin. Soo first healup our army and then kill 2 last cities.
I pillaged Saladdin's ivory for safety
Ok I know it isn't optimal, but I killed 7/9 of attackers from new capital
losses were acceptable
the city should fall next turn
And as expected city falls without losses
has good infra
We got another GG
didn't settle him or anything...he just waits
Pacal wants OB, didn't také
And MM wants us to attack Justy... doesnt work
We have connected the ivory ;-)
so we just have to give away horses...
Final battle with Sal begins!
5 against whatever
And saladdin is no more
So we have couple of decisions before us.
1) What to do with the GS, he can pop SciMeth, but not fun of this, we could spare him for GA
2) Who is next target? I guess in 5 turns we will be ready for next attack, the troops are in the west, have to move to medina and heal.
3) Religion... the more I think about it going Budh looks like good thing.
4) Spread a bit more budh?
5) When to stop building cuirs and start WE's? We can give away horses to either of Mansa or Bismarck, we have only 1 source so that's clear.
6) Will we use the GG for the 20 exp Elephant?
I decided to stick with the former strategy of wiping the floor with Saladdin. Soo first healup our army and then kill 2 last cities.
I pillaged Saladdin's ivory for safety
Spoiler :
Ok I know it isn't optimal, but I killed 7/9 of attackers from new capital
Spoiler :
losses were acceptable
Spoiler :
the city should fall next turn
And as expected city falls without losses
Spoiler :
has good infra
Spoiler :
We got another GG
Spoiler :
didn't settle him or anything...he just waits
Pacal wants OB, didn't také
Spoiler :
And MM wants us to attack Justy... doesnt work
Spoiler :
We have connected the ivory ;-)
Spoiler :
so we just have to give away horses...
Final battle with Sal begins!
Spoiler :
5 against whatever
And saladdin is no more
Spoiler :
So we have couple of decisions before us.
1) What to do with the GS, he can pop SciMeth, but not fun of this, we could spare him for GA
2) Who is next target? I guess in 5 turns we will be ready for next attack, the troops are in the west, have to move to medina and heal.
3) Religion... the more I think about it going Budh looks like good thing.
4) Spread a bit more budh?
5) When to stop building cuirs and start WE's? We can give away horses to either of Mansa or Bismarck, we have only 1 source so that's clear.
6) Will we use the GG for the 20 exp Elephant?
Maybe as we wait for rifles and cavs, now is a good moment to gift away our horses and get those ballistas built. However, I'm also fine to postpone that until after the next campaign... Korea looks like the most natural target to me. We can capture 2 cities on turn of DoW (one from German soil). Personally I wouldn't bother much with bud. I'd like rax+stable in Mecca. 
It's a bit lame, but a GG definitely looks like the best way to get 20 xp on a ballista. Who is up?
It's a bit lame, but a GG definitely looks like the best way to get 20 xp on a ballista. Who is up?vranasm
Deity
Maybe as we wait for rifles and cavs, now is a good moment to gift away our horses and get those ballistas built. However, I'm also fine to postpone that until after the next campaign... Korea looks like the most natural target to me. We can capture 2 cities on turn of DoW (one from German soil). Personally I wouldn't bother much with bud. I'd like rax+stable in Mecca.
well probably Lymond...
I initially wanted to play few more turns, but now have something other to do.
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Ok...took a look at the save and it seems like we are in pretty good shape here. I assume we are going for a Conq/Dom type win which should make short work of things. Diplo might certainly be an option as well. Space usually seems out...ha...unless the variant itself calls for it.
Anyway:
1) I'm inclined to hold off on Ballista production at present or at least until current production takes its course. I think we are in good position to take out a couple of AIs right now, especially with Wang/Mansa at war with Just.
2) My first thought was Just, but it is not currently a clean path to his land. Mansa on the other hand is quite accessible. He also offers a couple of nice wonders, including MoM. We might consider making a play at Econ for the GM and then use the GS/GM combo for a MoM GA after we take Tim. Wang is an option, but his protective Grens will be a nuisance and he doesn't really offer much. We might even just let him live. All the other AIs should be a walk over and win the game for us.
3) Even if we don't decide to go Econ or even get the GM, we can probably pump out another GP fairly quick by running a GE and maybe an artist or something other than scientists, so MoM would still be nice.
4) I'm fine with saving the GG to upgrade a Ballista. The unit is really past its prime anyway at this point.
5) Back to Mansa. Looks like there is a nice strategic opening via Biz's land such that we can send the stack down through Germany and enter Mali on first turn of war to create a fork on Kumbeh and Tim. Taking those two cities fast should cripple Mansa bigtime and he might just cap out to us, if we want that.
6) We could bribe Germany on someone. I'm thinking Wang or possibly Just. Not Mansa though. Biz vs. Wang might slow Wang down a bit. It could backfire as I assume Wang is stronger, although he may have the bulk of his army closer to Byz.
7) Other than basic infra in newer cities, I really see no other builds other than units. Mainly CUrs and some MP for new cities.
8) Grocers seem to be useless this game resource was, although we may want one in our cap eventually for more income.
9) I'll spread more Bud, of course
Tech: Make a play for Econ, finish Rep Parts > Rifling
Anyway:
1) I'm inclined to hold off on Ballista production at present or at least until current production takes its course. I think we are in good position to take out a couple of AIs right now, especially with Wang/Mansa at war with Just.
2) My first thought was Just, but it is not currently a clean path to his land. Mansa on the other hand is quite accessible. He also offers a couple of nice wonders, including MoM. We might consider making a play at Econ for the GM and then use the GS/GM combo for a MoM GA after we take Tim. Wang is an option, but his protective Grens will be a nuisance and he doesn't really offer much. We might even just let him live. All the other AIs should be a walk over and win the game for us.
3) Even if we don't decide to go Econ or even get the GM, we can probably pump out another GP fairly quick by running a GE and maybe an artist or something other than scientists, so MoM would still be nice.
4) I'm fine with saving the GG to upgrade a Ballista. The unit is really past its prime anyway at this point.
5) Back to Mansa. Looks like there is a nice strategic opening via Biz's land such that we can send the stack down through Germany and enter Mali on first turn of war to create a fork on Kumbeh and Tim. Taking those two cities fast should cripple Mansa bigtime and he might just cap out to us, if we want that.
6) We could bribe Germany on someone. I'm thinking Wang or possibly Just. Not Mansa though. Biz vs. Wang might slow Wang down a bit. It could backfire as I assume Wang is stronger, although he may have the bulk of his army closer to Byz.
7) Other than basic infra in newer cities, I really see no other builds other than units. Mainly CUrs and some MP for new cities.
8) Grocers seem to be useless this game resource was, although we may want one in our cap eventually for more income.
9) I'll spread more Bud, of course
Tech: Make a play for Econ, finish Rep Parts > Rifling
vranasm
Deity
thanks for the plan L.
I wanted to point out that when you just edit the thread isn't bumped so couple of us could miss your plan.
Actually happened to me, it was only because I thought it's 2 days already I probably should do friendly bump that I catched the plan.
Another thing on mind is that we can trade off horses only to MM or Bismarck, so we shouldn't kill both before we build our WE's.
I thought getting Bismarck would be better (Mids for our economy), but MM should work too. The situation between them is pretty similar... both are drawn from north to south in narrow corridor.
I wanted to point out that when you just edit the thread isn't bumped so couple of us could miss your plan.
Actually happened to me, it was only because I thought it's 2 days already I probably should do friendly bump that I catched the plan.
Another thing on mind is that we can trade off horses only to MM or Bismarck, so we shouldn't kill both before we build our WE's.
I thought getting Bismarck would be better (Mids for our economy), but MM should work too. The situation between them is pretty similar... both are drawn from north to south in narrow corridor.
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Wow...I did not even think about the edit not bumping the thread. I shoulda known. I"ll keep that in mind in the future.
Biz seems worth keeping around in terms of diplo and bribes. I like keeping the AIs in a constant state of war in games like this. Taking Biz first limits our options when we can simply get him in on the action. Plus, Mansa has better shinies.
It'd be nice to seal off and secure the west I think to create on front.
Biz seems worth keeping around in terms of diplo and bribes. I like keeping the AIs in a constant state of war in games like this. Taking Biz first limits our options when we can simply get him in on the action. Plus, Mansa has better shinies.
It'd be nice to seal off and secure the west I think to create on front.
I missed the plan indeed.
I guess the position is such that any target will work... I'd still go for Korea, but MM is fine too, at least prefer him over Biz as a target right now. Rest of plan sounds fine too, go for it!
I guess the position is such that any target will work... I'd still go for Korea, but MM is fine too, at least prefer him over Biz as a target right now. Rest of plan sounds fine too, go for it!
We could always just pillage our own horses if needed.
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