Military Tactics T94-T120

[damnrunner]

Kaleb - I think you are right about the healing. They attacked two turns ago. At the end of last turn their units that stayed put healed. At the end of this turn, their units that stay put again will heal again.

I am less worried about them moving units to the hill 1E of TKY. Any units they move will not get the benefits of healing. I am also wary of splitting off one mace from our stack. They could attack it with their full strength LB in Zero which should give the mace enough damage to easily get killed with 1 or 2 more follow up attacks.

For this reason I think we move the whole stack 1N. They will move the hill LB into TKY and probably move the unprompted LB in Zero to the hill. I don't think they will move any other units as they won't heal if they do. Attacking us would also be pointless as they would take very high losses (RNG willing).

Next turn we can combine our two stacks at the tile 1S of TKY.

On the following turn that would give us 2 cats, 3 maces, 1 ele, 1 HA - vs. 2 LBs and 1 spear. They will probably chop one more unit (maybe 2) in this period of time - but they can't really bring up any other units other than chariots.

If they don't move units out of Zero this turn they won’t get to TKY in time. But if they do move out of Zero this turn - it will take them 2 turns to get to TKY during which they won't heal any.

 

[damnrunner]

Wood III units heal - info taken from http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/promotions


Abilities
+2 First Strikes
+50% Forests/Jungle Attack
Heals Units in the Same Tile Extra 15% Damage/Turn

 

[Kaleb]

In stack1 I'm suggesting 1mace goes 1N with WE and HA. The other mace goes NW. If we don't split off a mace SAN can afford to leave their lbow on the hill. If they chop another lbow in TKY they'll be able to do this mind you.

Zuurstof is wood3 and last time I checked he had 2 first strikes but no healing ability. Check it in SP to be sure.

 

[Kaleb]

Kaleb - I think you are right about the healing. They attacked two turns ago. At the end of last turn their units that stayed put healed. At the end of this turn, their units that stay put again will heal again.

I am less worried about them moving units to the hill 1E of TKY. Any units they move will not get the benefits of healing. I am also wary of splitting off one mace from our stack. They could attack it with their full strength LB in Zero which should give the mace enough damage to easily get killed with 1 or 2 more follow up attacks.

For this reason I think we move the whole stack 1N. They will move the hill LB into TKY and probably move the unprompted LB in Zero to the hill. I don't think they will move any other units as they won't heal if they do. Attacking us would also be pointless as they would take very high losses (RNG willing).

Next turn we can combine our two stacks at the tile 1S of TKY.

On the following turn that would give us 2 cats, 3 maces, 1 ele, 1 HA - vs. 2 LBs and 1 spear. They will probably chop one more unit (maybe 2) in this period of time - but they can't really bring up any other units other than chariots.

If they don't move units out of Zero this turn they won’t get to TKY in time. But if they do move out of Zero this turn - it will take them 2 turns to get to TKY during which they won't heal any.

Check screenshots! If whole stack moves 1N it block units moving out of Zero on the road. The mace splitting off will be 1w of the stack and can't be reached b any units from Zero.

Did you mean to say "move whole stack 1NW"

If we do this they will move their new, full health lbow in Zero to the hill which will:
A) prevent our HA from going for Dragon's tears and
B) allow them to get an extra lbow in TKY.

 

[damnrunner]

Check screenshots! If whole stack moves 1N it block units moving out of Zero on the road. The mace splitting off will be 1w of the stack and can't be reached b any units from Zero.

Did you mean to say "move whole stack 1NW"

If we do this they will move their new, full health lbow in Zero to the hill which will:
A) prevent our HA from going for Dragon's tears and
B) allow them to get an extra lbow in TKY.

Thanks for editing my misstatement. I meant move NW. Unless others raise objections i will go with your plan.

 

[Kaleb]

If we move stack1 NW then it will look like this:

Spoiler :

the yellow circles represent where our two stacks will be. the blue circle where we want our HA to be if we want to have a shot at DT (or threaten a strike)

You can see in the shot what SANCTA have in zero. Doing this moves means they can move their full health lbow out of Zero to the hill, and move the lbow on the hill (that has 1 promotion still) into TKY. Meaning they will have at least 2lbows in TKY (and maybe a third with the chop).

The lbow in Zero meanwhile will have 2 turns to heal meaning it will be on full strength by the time we could attack if we decided to go back to Zero.

The only things SANCTA can really attack us with are 2 full strength lbows and a Str 4 C2 Shock Axe (I can't imagine them using the spear!)

 

[Kaleb]

would have liked more discussion but we can't hold up game indefinitely so I've done the turn...

let's see what SANCTA do...

 

[Indiansmoke]

we had the dicussion kalleb..don't worry unless you spilt stack we are fine

 

[Kaleb]

I did move one mace NW - we've got C1 Mace, C1 Shock WE and C2 HA in a stack. what are they going to hit that with?

 

[damnrunner]

I am happy with the move. Fingers crossed. We don't get nuked again.

 

[donsig]

I am also happy with the move. If SANCTA gets lucky again we'll sacrifice the guy reading the chicken livers.

 

[Indiansmoke]

well they ca hit with longbow,mace will defend, get to 2 health and then they will kill the ele and the HA with the 2 spears...very propable the way RNG goes fo them...lets hope we get lucky this time.

 

[Kaleb]

you mean hope we aren't unlucky again! the WE is as strong as the Mace vs longbow so that might defend btw

if we are going to keep getting that kind of rotten luck we may as well give up now!

 

[Indiansmoke]

BTW why did you move our tririme back? Now they can move in and use blockade..cannot remember how many tiles blockade reaches but it might reach our seafood!

 

[Kaleb]

if they attack and kill our Trireme we've got nothing to come back with for a few turns. They've got 50-50 odds on the attack. Considering they attacked with 33% odds before I can see them having a go. If they do blockade they have to move in and

I did ask about what to do about the Trireme but no-one said anything!! Not the first time I ask "what shall we do about X" ... no reply ... I move X to Y ... "why did you move X to Y?"

Blockade is 4 tiles IIRC.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I missed the tririme thing, I thought it was obvious we were going to leave it in place...sorry about that

 

[damnrunner]

What is the news - did we get screwed again?

 

[Kaleb]

We got screwed. All of stack 1 units and HA dead. The usual crap - 25% odd wins, only losing throw-away units.

Smells very fishy to me. There is an exploit that SANCTA could be using to help them get these results and the pattern with which they attack the frequent loggin-in and out points towards them using this exploit.

I'll try and explain how it works when I get the time.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I Read your post on the possible exploit, as well as Donsigs response... Seems like we can't prove anything except that we lost... possibly a result of an untraceable exploit, possibly a result of an extermely well planned attacks /suicide attacks and possibly a result of some lucky RNG's...

Either way, I would again repeat that I would like the team to reconsider withdrawing so that we can engage SANCTA with a much larger/more powerful force... one that is not as vunerable to SANCTA skill/luck/exploitation etc, whatever.

My problem at this juncture is, that our team was divided on several key issues, including:

1. Expansion
A. Sacrifice economy to Spam settlers and reach the bottle-neck first or;
B. Keep economy stable to stay ahead in tech, while expanding more slowly.

2. Military
A. Focus more on production and military units, assuming that we would be at war before Rifling or;
B. Focus more on economy and tech, assuming that we probably would not be attacked before Rifling

3. War with SANCTA
A. Building a large army and preparing to attack SANCTA before Construction or;
B. Holding off on our preparations for war with SANCTA, until Rifling

4. Relations with Saturn
A. Bringing Saturn in as a full partner in a 4 way alliance to isolate SANCTA, or;
B. Trying to slowly integrate Saturn through a side deal, while trying to keep the 3 way alliance secret

5. Cavalieros war-time role
A. Leveraging our commece to take the role as the military power of the alliance, or;
B. Accepting a role as the brains of the alliance, while assuming that Cavalieros would be the brawn

It seems to me that our team decided to go with option B on all counts, and option B was unsuccesful (so-far) on all counts. I am not trying to place any blame on anyone or engage in any pointless told you so's, or anything like that. There is no guarantee that any of the option A's would have been successful either, TBH...

The whole point is, that I am concerned that the way we have conducted this war so far has been at least partially motivated, (either consciously or subconsciously) by a honest desire (possibly even desperation) to vindicate all the 'option B's' we have chosen. Let's just admit that we need a new strategy (as a team), and find a way to back off from the war (at least temporarily).

 

[Indiansmoke]

How many times did I say to not split the stack?
Oh well never mind...it is just a game after all

But from now on you listen OK?