Minor cults

[Apepis]

I'd like to make a mod to FFH2 with 4 minor cults using religions mechanic (and acting as religions in-game), but without the ability to select them as state religions (like Cult of the Dragon). It would be good, if they weren't even appearing in religions menu. Anyone knows how to do this?

Those cults are:
- Brotherhood of the Serpent, worshipping Sucellus as Snake Oroboros; philosophicly inclined, pacifistic cult of healers;
- Tablet Mortis, which worships Arawn and gathers necromantic knowledge;
- Orichalk Forge - cult of enchanters and elementalists praising Nantosuelta and Oghma;
- The Red Hand - paramilitary cult teaching that a person is free only when it can defend itself;

In fact, the cults are almost done, but I can't force them not to become state religions. It's very stupid, when AI adopts a cult, which is supposed to be minor.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Tablet Mortis doesn't make much sense; Arawn abhors necromancy (he is the god of natural death, necromancy is the circumvention of his authority. The few times he has gotten involved in creation is to strike out against these abominations), as do his worshipers (whom he ignore anyway), the Sidar.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of any of these ideas, although I wouldn't mind seeing some more cults in the game.

I haven't tried it, but I believe all you need to do is change bCult from a 0 to a 1 in order to make it not appear on the religion menu, and be unadoptable. (The fact that Kael added this new tag instead of going with the old, pre-BtS method of blocking the religions adoption may imply that he has a few more cults of his own planned)

What I would like is the ability to make certain religions act as unadoptable cults in certain civs (e.g., Vampires being unable to convert to the worship of the Sun god, although mny of their people may pray to him to save them from their masters.), with new negative effects. Although I have no idea how to do this, when I mentioned it before Kael implied that it may be the case in Shadow.

 

[xienwolf]

Now I am wondering: Can a religion have an affect on your city without being your state religion? Other than the unhappy face for certain civics?


Be interesting if some of these cults could work their way into your lands giving you small bonuses or penalties in those cities.

 

[Ekolite]

Tablet Mortis doesn't make much sense; Arawn abhors necromancy (he is the god of natural death, necromancy is the circumvention of his authority. The few times he has gotten involved in creation is to strike out against these abominations), as do his worshipers (whom he ignore anyway), the Sidar.

Err, you sure the Sidar worship Arawn, I'm sure I read somewhere that he sees them pretty much like the necromancers, the have escaped death and so are also a circumvention of his authority. But yeah I agree the necromancer cult wouldn't worship Arawn, I'm pretty sure none of the Gods really support necromancy. The other cults are ok but I'd really like to see the cult of Baal in too (as Ive said many times lol), it should be able to be adopted as a state religion, at least for the orcs. I don't really think any of the current religions really suit the orcs atm.

 

[xienwolf]

I think I remember seeing the argument about the death god somewhere, and I am pretty sure that the Sidar were stated to worship him, but he does dislike that they don't die like good little people. However, he seems to pretty much think that about ANYONE over the age of 1 second, and doesn't acknowledge the Sidar any more/less than he does anyone else claiming to worsihp him.

 

[Apepis]

(...) I agree the necromancer cult wouldn't worship Arawn, I'm pretty sure none of the Gods really support necromancy.

Hmm... Well, it's only a matter of pedia entry. I wanted a cult of necromancers, and so I have them. It could be as well "agnostic" organization, or some kind of arcane secret society. Most important that they dabble in necromancy and disguise it as a mystical way to enlightenment.

xienwolf:
If you adopted state religion, no other religion will give you it's standard bonuses. Of course, you still can build other religion's temples (unless it changes) and train missionaries. Nothing more (again, unless I'm wrong because of recent changes ). That's why I made my cults simple: they don't give anything... except the ability to build certain buildings, and - naturally - found a shrine in holy city. Cult's buildings can be usefull, if you care to build them - e.g. sanctuary, where Brotherhood of the Serpent meets, gives your city 1 free sage and +2 health. But, in fact, the main benefits of heving a cult are benefits delivered by the shrine. In case of mentioned above BotS it would be:

+2 bakers for every city with cult
1 free life mana
+1 health in every city

Of course, cults have also their own missionaries to make their spread easier.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Spoiler :

Shades, men who have traded portions of their soul for immortality, the Grey are detached from the events of the world. Only intervening to protect themselves or striking out to destroy undead (they see undead as aberrations despite their own use of magic to extend their life), they are happy to keep to their hidden cities, out of the eyes, and the wars, of the younger races.

The Sidar civilopedia entry points out the ironies or inconsistencies in Sidar thought; yes, they are extending their lives my unnatural means (consuming their souls) but they still have great reverence for Arawn and like him abhor true necromancy (bring those already dead back to life, or to some semblance of life). Also, it has been stated that the Sidar were worshipers of Arawn, but after being ignored for so long I doubt that many of them are still devout.


It has often been stated that Arawn is indifferent to anything in the world of the living (I don't think he really wants them to die, he just doesn't care). Perhaps that means that he doesn't mind so much if the living keep on living by unnatural means, but stealing the dead from his dominion and forcing them to do your will is inexcusable.

Most gods (especially Arawn) don't support necromancy, but I don't think that Agares minds it. I think AoI seems to imply that Mulcarn may have used it some too (Mokka) . Basically, it is the domain of the evil gods (the god of death is neutral).

 

[thapagan]

The concept of the cult of the dragon, with its negative impact, was one of the cooler parts of FfH, I feel any new cults should follow the mixed blessing concept.

But I could be wrong, Getting a spiffy temple if a cult sets up in your city might be cool also?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yes, Cults need their own religious buildings (which should also have both positive and negative effects), as well as disciples that can spread the religion and build these temples in rival cities.

 

[Ekolite]

This is just a thought but could it be possible to have a secondary state religion (a cult) in a civ. This might make it possible for the cults to have more of an effect on the civ

 

[King Khan]

Couldn't you use cults to replace corporations?
I think they would have to be organic things, not heavily influenced by the player. Spreading naturally and any buildings would have to be built by the people to keep this flavor, much like the pasture building event. And they should be a mixed blessing, or even counter productive in certain cases.

Cult of the Witch King FTW!

Khan

 

[Ekolite]

No, they're making guilds to repace corporations aren't they?

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

The cults could be real minor religions, not showing up on the religious screen. No missionsries, and they give their benefits regardless of the state religion. They could give bonus units, at the cost of sapping a certain resource e.g. hammers, research, etc. Maybe the snake cult could give lizardmen units, enchanter cult giving dwarven mages of great power, etc.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Why no missionaries? I'd much rather them have missionaries, and mixed positive and negative bonuses (probably more negative ones). You could try to spread them to enemy cities to hurt them, but there could be some advantages as well.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

To show the uncontrollably of the cults. You must hope they hurt them and not you. They are cults, not state funded religions.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

hmm, it might be interesting you could built a cult missionary but then it turned barbarian one completed (but were unable to attack and could move trough rival terrain)


I would also like a mechanic where individual units' religions had a small chance of spreading to other units on the same tile and/or to the city in which the unit is stationed.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

hmm, it might be interesting you could built a cult missionary but then it turned barbarian one completed (but were unable to attack and could move trough rival terrain)

I't be cool if there was a single missionary that spread one cult that had already been randomly founded.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

or even if barbarian missionaries spawn randomly from those cities.