Minor Leaders

Valkrionn · Jul 28, 2009

Vermicious Knid said:
So 2 traits + Emergent? Excellent, we are already breaking our new rules!

Well, the one trait doesn't actually do much. If we wanted to, we could eliminate it, and make the promotion autoacquire for Jotnar with the Veinhunter trait. I'd rather leave it, just so it's obvious what you're getting. :lol:

Opera said:
Valk, what about the "less maintenance building" we talked about in my thread for Imperialistic?
I wanted to make Imperialistic a trait mimicing huge empire with a powerful capital, so I thought it could allow supplies to be build in the capital.

(That's not enough, but that's an idea)

I like that one too... Had forgotten about it. :lol:

Now I'm not sure what to use... :crazyeye:

Darksaber1 · Jul 28, 2009

Okay, I now have 2 possible art works for Telias:

http://www.jaestudio.com/portfolio-characterdesign2.htm: the second from the left
and
http://www.jasonchanart.com/gallery/2005/fanart/humans_big.jpg, the woman.

I like the first one most, but it's not quit what I was thinking of. I was thinking more of a Tactitian look, but it's hard to find art for a woman in Fantasy art that isn't either a mage, are with alot less clothing then normal.

Opera · Jul 28, 2009

What art are you searching exactly? I can try to find something

(the first art is the one of Kamen Sandou (sp?), a Great Bard, btw)

Tasunke · Jul 28, 2009

well, Imperialist trait could either gain an additional -10% maintanence or allow the building of a fairly cheap courier building, reducing city maintanence by 10 or 15%.

In addition, a very bold move would be create a supply wagon unit, 0str and 2 move. every natural resource can only be "gathered" by a supply wagon ONCE, and adds a resource specific promo to that wagon. Then the wagon must return to capital (maybe any city, but I'm thinking capital) and sacrifice itself to create either a permanent building or greatperson with altered stats, say +2 food for rice, +1 food +1 hammer for cow, +1 hammer for horse, +2 hammer for copper. That sort of thing. But each resource can only be gathered once. Now, also the capital, and only the capital, can create the supplies unit, so new imperial cities can gain buildings faster. Of coures supplies and supply wagons have some risk involved, they can be attacked/sabotaged, and resources can only be gathered once. So if u gather a resource, and that wagon dies, you've lost the potential gain forever. (maybe until birthright regained, it could reset it maybe)

Darksaber1 · Jul 28, 2009

Opera said:
What art are you searching exactly? I can try to find something
(the first art is the one of Kamen Sandou (sp?), a Great Bard, btw)

Something along the line of a military commander, or atleast that can be passed off as a Tactician, or something like that.

KillerClowns · Jul 28, 2009

Opera said:
What art are you searching exactly? I can try to find something
(the first art is the one of Kamen Sandou (sp?), a Great Bard, btw)

Of course, I think leaders get priority over GPs. If nothing better is found, we could always just find a new Great Bard pic.

Opera · Jul 28, 2009

Darksaber1 said:
Something along the line of a military commander, or atleast that can be passed off as a Tactician, or something like that.

The pic you like isn't fitting well, then. She's more like a selfless healer than a Blank Banner strategist. Hmm, I'll try to find something. Either don't move or just tell me you want to use that one, so that I won't lose my time

KillerClowns said:
Of course, I think leaders get priority over GPs. If nothing better is found, we could always just find a new Great Bard pic.

Of course, of course, I was just stating that

Darksaber1 · Jul 28, 2009

No, that was just the most fitting one I could find. I you could find something, I'd greatly appriciate it.

Opera · Jul 28, 2009

Okay, sooo...
http://www.raymondswanland.com/Pages/Illustration Gallery/Illustration22.html; This one I like a lot. Only problem is that she's a bit small in the whole picture.
http://www.tascha.ch/content/mambot...mages/0.stories.gallery_commissions.queen.jpg; this one is beautiful but may not fit your idea of tactician.
http://janaschi.deviantart.com/art/Blumen-92300994; I think this one would be very good for an Elohim commander, even of the Blank Banner.
http://hellstern.deviantart.com/art/I-allways-know-77825211; this one might not fit an Elohim. And you may not like the bare midriff.
http://lamp.otaku.ru/en/galleries/soulu/fanart/eva_fanart_Eirika.jpg.view; pretty too. Note that she's crying though.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=681810; this one may look more "fighter" than "tactician".

That's all for now.

Valkrionn · Jul 28, 2009

I think the third one is the best of those, but I'm not sure....

Opera · Jul 28, 2009

I'm pretty much agreeing with you, Valk.

Tasunke · Jul 28, 2009

yea, third one is prolly the best. Maybe the horse one if you were able to crop the picture to center around her, and cut out the top half of the pic.

Darksaber1 · Jul 29, 2009

Yeah, Third one is best. I like it.

Opera · Jul 29, 2009

Great then

Darksaber1 · Jul 29, 2009

Diplo text for Telias, based in part off of the picture:

Spoiler :

KillerClowns · Jul 29, 2009

I like it, Darksaber1. Captures the somewhat cynical tone of the Elohim version of the Black Ops quite well. That said, mind if I do a bit of editing? Sorry, but my Lawful Neutral freshman English professor sort of rubbed off on me, and I'll be gnawing on my arm all day if I don't. Just minor grammatical fixes and spell-checking. (My spell-checker favors American spellings, but since that's what FfH uses anyways...)

Spoiler Telias Diplo with minor grammar fixes/spellchecking :

Korias · Aug 3, 2009

Between all of this, in the hopes that Goodreau hadn't been cut, I do think I've got a way to make him a bit more unique. After all, I was the guy who originally proposed him to Notque.

Cassiel is Phi/Ind/Adaptive/Agnostic. Standard for the Grigori.
Esirce, on the other hand, is Phi/Tolerant/Agnostic/Minor. This is a unique combination.
Goodreau is Financial/Minor/Agnostic. Not a very good combination.

But that was with the older Adventurer Spawning mechanic. With the new one, things can change around a little bit. I'm not exactly sure what the mechanics of the spawning is, but I'm assuming its based on a Percentage Chance and the population of the Grigori Capital.

Fluffwise, Goodreau was a Bannor Merchant who turned to the Grigori after his AV neighbor sacrificed his daughter. From this, we know the following-

He flocked to some ideology that the Grigori hold dear.
He has mercantile skill- he was a Great Merchant, after all.
He would probably hold up the mentality of great heroes supporting the cause of the Luonnotar.
He was shown a degree of hospitality by Cassiel when he first arrived in Grigori lands.

Can we pull a new trait from these fluffy bits? I think we can. There are three game mechanics that we could use to craft a new feature.

Adventurer Spawning
Altar of the Luonnotar
Stability

Why these three? As a merchant, I would suppose that Goodreau would have invested in Grigori Museums, due to their financial and patriotic aspects. An ability that either raised the Spawn Rate or gave a Free Museum or bonus to building them might be a bonus.

Another thing, but more complex, would be to focus on Goodreau's encounter with his deceased daughter, prompting him to focus on the Altar of the Luonnotar. Is it possible to allow him access to a Unique UB of the Museum that gives +1 Priest Specialist? Or perhaps give the capital 1 Free Priest Specialist? Some way to begin generating GProphet points would be the way to go with this one, giving him immediate access to the thematic victory of uniting him with his daughter again instead of waiting for Theocracy.

But Goodreau is also the kind of guy that would thrive on a unified empire. Perhaps under his rule, the economy runs much more smoothly and therefore, cities benefit from double the normal benefit from a connected resource. (IE: A City has access to Corn but corn is not in that city's BFC. The City still recieves a +1 Food bonus. If Goodreau is running the Grigori, that bonus is instead +2 food instead of +1.)

I really dont want to see him disappear, but he is generic as it stands and needs a reworking. I also am re-writing his pedia entry so I'll submit that when I can, between working on my own mod and College visiting.

MagisterCultuum · Aug 4, 2009

What makes you think Godreau has Luonnatar sympathies or supports the antics of adventurers? I certainly don't see that anywhere.

Given that he was a Bannor and a respectable lay follower of The Order before the church refused his daughter a proper burial, I'd expect him to be very familiar with handling centralized governments and regulation than most laissez faire Grigori, and that he could bring such organizational skills to good use. Thus, I think he should gain the Organized Trait.

Valkrionn · Aug 4, 2009

I haven't cut him, I liked the background too much. :lol:

He WAS demoted to Minor, but something like what you described could easily make him Emergent...

The spawn chance is dependent on civic (Apprenticeship gives a boost), and buildings. Each building that originally gave Adventurer points now counts in the spawn chance... So I suppose population DOES count in a way, as the more cities (population) you have, the more of these buildings there are.

I like the Adventurer boost. Makes him different from Esirce, as he's actually HURT there with Conqueror. I also like the priest specialist idea, mostly because it gives them a way to use the victory... Very easy to give him his own UB's.

The third idea, though... I don't think I can do that one, sadly.

Korias · Aug 4, 2009

MagisterCultuum said:
What makes you think Godreau has Luonnatar sympathies or supports the antics of adventurers? I certainly don't see that anywhere.

Given that he was a Bannor and a respectable lay follower of The Order before the church refused his daughter a proper burial, I'd expect him to be very familiar with handling centralized governments and regulation than most laissez faire Grigori, and that he could bring such organizational skills to good use. Thus, I think he should gain the Organized Trait.

The reason why I feel that Goodreau supports the Luonnotar would be the whole idea of reuniting with his daughter. After all, I'm thinking that the whole sequence where they reunited at the end of Cassiel's pedia entry, and that focusing on bringing the Luonnotar back would help him reunite with his daughter. Combined with a refocused Zeal that he was seen to have as a member of the Order, that may be why going through that thematic road might be evidence enough to ensure his use as a leader.

As for the Adventurers, Goodreau would probably either invest in the Museums, or be the one to dispense pay to the adventurers to deal with problems. Such is the bonus for having large piles of gold and Adventurers to recruit into the Grigori Army. The issue with this is that there isnt much reference to him- just Cassiel's pedia entry, and whatever his Great Person quote is. But that leaves gaps for us to determine what exactly his course of action would be, and whether he would invest in heroes for the Army.

As for being Organized due to his skill in regulation from his Bannor days, I'm inclined to disagree. He was a Merchant, but he's lost all faith in the Bannor due to their insisting that he is the one who was being punished and that he needs to pray more. I would assume that something such as that, causing him to seek political and religious asylum in a foreign land would render his faith in any formalized system of government shaky at best. While Organized would be a good trait, I want to see if there's a way to make him unique.

@Valkrionn: Glad to hear it!

With Adventurer Spawning as the focus, if we make it so it affects the spawn rate directly, it becomes a more powerful late game ability, but if we simply give a Museum in every city, it becomes a early on thing but loses its oomph later on unless you go on a conquest.

With the Priest Specialist, its specifically designed to either give you a jumpstart into generating Prophets for the Altar, or give you an alternative to the hack-and-slash method of the Grigori's Adventurers, depending on whether you make it 1 Specialist in the Capital or a slot on the Museum.

And the Doubled Benefit, I wouldnt have the slightest clue on how to accomplish that either. It just seemed like a different way to show Goodreau's expertise in large scale economics, all the cities receiving a greater benefit from wise planning.

I hope this helps somewhat- you're probably still trying to fix the issues of the 3.19 patch, and subsequently the FF 0.51 patch. Best of luck to you with that, as that goes straight over my head.

Minor Leaders

The Hamster King

Secret Emperor

Deity

Crazy Horse

Secret Emperor

Emperor

Deity

Secret Emperor

Deity

The Hamster King

Deity

Crazy Horse

Secret Emperor

Deity

Secret Emperor

Emperor

King

Great Sage

The Hamster King

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