Missle Silos

[sir_schwick]

One element of Civ 3 Nuclear war that bothers me is that ICBMs are immobile. I'm not arguing that once they are installed, they don't move. I am arguing that you do not see any Titan missle silos in New York City. Most of the nuclear missle silos are in the desert and abandoned areas. One of the primary aims of espionage during the Cold War was figuring out where the other guys missles were, because that was the first target in a first strike.

Here is my suggestion to keep ICBMs immobile, but not in citys. Whenever you build an ICBM, you 'install' it in any square in your territory. Only you would be able to see those locations. Even if units not from your civ pass over or thorugh the square, they will not see it(I can't find any silos in the MOhave desert if i looked). The only way to find others silos is through espionage. When you spy you can choose to 'locate silo'(a little less expensive). If successful, your spy will locate 1 square containing silos(you'll only see one, but there could be more). This way you can't just bomb the crap out of the other guys cities and expect to get his nuclear force.

 

[E-Raser]

Good Idea imo.

 

[sir_schwick]

I also forgot, now the only part of the Strategic Triad that is left is bombers. You should be able to build Nuclear Bombers, which can attack with 2 tactical nukes within their operating radius. I'm not sure whether the Nuclear Bombs shoudl be seperate units, or integrated into the Bomber.

 

[Suki]

I'm not sure whether the Nuclear Bombs shoudl be seperate units, or integrated into the Bomber.

obviously you make the whole thing modular, have neuclear bombs as a seperate unit. Anytime you want, inside one of your cities, you can attach a neuclear bomb to a bomber, long or short range missile, artillery piece, warrior.. the unit looks normal to your enemy but has a big radiation symbol on it in your view. and when you attack something with your neuclear enabled unit you get the question (activate neuclear capabilities [y/n] ?)

 

[sir_schwick]

obviously you make the whole thing modular, have neuclear bombs as a seperate unit. Anytime you want, inside one of your cities, you can attach a neuclear bomb to a bomber, long or short range missile, artillery piece, warrior.. the unit looks normal to your enemy but has a big radiation symbol on it in your view. and when you attack something with your neuclear enabled unit you get the question (activate neuclear capabilities [y/n] ?)

Reminds me a lot of Nerve Gas Pods in SMAC(loved those things a bit too much). Awesome idea! What about when the unit is killed, do you get an option to auto-detonate the nuke or does it get captured, or does it accidentally go off if the enemy doesn't have fission?

 

[Colonel]

One thing to add with all nuclear ideas is the ability to launch all of them, also have nuclear bombers have a option to go on nuclear patrol where its goes and bombs pretermined targets inside enemy terriotory if you get nuked-also you could launch your land based missles to.


with that nuclear bomber idea you could create a new aspect to the game. International incidents, where you bomber was on patrol-read above-and could crash in enemy terriotory(or freiendly territory) and have a 25% chance of nuclear explosion

so what do you think of these ideas

 

[Bibor]

Well actually you are referring to a not-so-pleasant part of our history. Hope it never happens again.
Bombers armed with several nukes flying over our heads at 30,000 feet? No thanx.

That's kind of a wish like "Can we collect captured workers in concetration camps"?



-kirby

 

[Colonel]

what you just said is almost like saying can we look at this nice part of history but not this Bad part

Anyways the Nuclear patrol is a good idea and its not to hard to implament

 

[sir_schwick]

I agree that the nuclear stand-off during the Cold War was something we would rather not repeat, nuclear power is a defining factor of the modern world.

The patrolling idea would require an overhaul of the recon and airforce system, which I would like to see. Could also lead to incidents like the U2 Mike Powers incident in 1962.

Here is what I would like to see. Whenever you build nukes, you decide what their target is. You can use a button to change that target at another time. You would even have a Strategic Defense Advisor who would have all targets and warheads listed. If you are attacked, you can respond immediately. The game sort of goes into a temporary real-time slow motion mode. Everyone now has a chance to fire off whatever warheads they want too. LIke in Wargames, little lines will start being drawn across the map were missles are going. Bombs will explode wheneve rthey reach targets. Once the shooting is over, game goes back to where it was.

 

[Colonel]

I like this idea but what about after a mass nuclear war then what the game is over, as most likely there would be massive global warming, unbearable poultion, and so.

As for Patrol idea (one I already stated in a different thread the need for spy planes), a bomber wouldnt be seen doing this it would just be assumed it was- and you wouldnt get a view of the area they are patroling-as they arent looking to see but to be there-you would only see the bombers if and when you used them

As for the extra advisor screen for nukes, would it only pop in once you have discovered Nuclear weapons

And there is a thing with advisor screen- dont include tactical nukes in this but keep them as they are now so they can be used in combat as they are now without total nuclear war

Next, with the screen you should be able to pick out one nuke or one bomber and use them like that as well as a total use of all of them

Finally i think in this advisor screen you should group certian weapons so you can choose to use all weapons aimed at one civ but not at another so if you choose to attack X country but not Y country you dont have to------------So in the advisor screen you would choose which advisor then once in the NUclear guy you would have one choose to launch all nukes and then a list of civs, when you clicked on a certian civ you would have a choose at the top saying launch all aimed at that civ, below this a list of all missles and bombers-once you picked one you would get a yes or no messege to order that one to attack

so is this good or no

 

[Stid]

it would save alot of time in a nuke war if targets were predetermined and would look great seeing them all come down on a country within the space of a couple of seconds adding that extra effect.

Expanding the nuclear patrol thingee i could only really see an incident if the plane was bombing a target and had to go through a friendly country to get there.a right of passage would allow safe air passage through territorys but runs the risk of an incident if theres no right of passage.Nuclear subs are more hazardous why not create a 5% chance of nuclear explosion at the end of a turn? that would sure create an incident especially if it was in someones territory at the time

 

[Colonel]

5% sounds good but this 5% chance would cover everything from nuclear subs-only if they had nukes-and nuclear bomber going inside enemy or friendly terriotory so there wouldnt be a massive chance o this

this i think would be funny- have the nuclear advisor screen be dark like tinted and seem serious like and red flashing (just for a moment) when you use nukes

 

[sir_schwick]

Exactly Colonel. If you have ever played SuperPower, you will know what I mean by the nuclear target list. The Strategic Defense Advisor would only appear once Manhattan Project was built. Nuclear strikes wouldn't always turn into a nuclear holocaust, but it would force everyone to be careful, cause their could easily be a cascade effect. Nuclear weapons are usually very hard to activate without executive approval. You should have an interception phase of each turn. That is when you calculate if enemy planes show up on your radar. At the first second, the plane is unidentified. YOu can choose to hail it, warn and tail, try and shoot down, or number three with prep for launch. If you wait to act and the UFO doesn't leave, you will find out what nation it is. Then you have also have the option of contacting the other guys president.

 

[Batho]

Anyways, I like the missile silos idea. Hiding them in mountains inside your territory. It might give new uses for fortresses and barricades as you would want to protect these squares.

 

[Bibor]

Missile silos as tile improvement=yes
Nuke bombers that "patrols" your sikes=no

Reason for the latter=no superpower would allow such a thing flying over it's borders. It would become an international incident, most probably meaning a new (nuclear) world war.

If you guys ever watched the movie "Dr. Strangelove, or how I stopped worrying and started to love the bomb", you know what I mean...

-kirby

 

[Colonel]

OK, One thing you do know that up until 1991 the US had nuclear bombers on the edge of Russian air space non-stop 24 hours a day since 1961 and yes it did create a few incidents-one crashed over spain-another in canada-few others.

Anywaysmy ideas for the bombers and patrol werent really meant that you would be flying into enemy air space but staying on the outskirts and only bombing if you gave them that order

 

[sir_schwick]

I do have to agree with Colonel on the history bit. The US Strategic bomber force was prepared to turn all of Russia into Siberia at a moments notice from the President. I think that same kind of twitch reflex response should be avaliable for civ. It would make nuclear war more tense, since everyhting would happen suddenly and you would not alwasy have all the intelligence. Imagine a nuclear detonation happens, but you don't know who set off the bomb(terrorist style attack). You are warned that the other guy is warming up his nukes, what do you do? That is the kind of tension that should exist when everyone is wired with a WWIII button. Also, death to SDI, makes nuclear era too easy.

 

[Colonel]

um i dont know if you changed your mind about the bombers or not- please clearify.
Anyways, I agree the SDI should be gone (at this point in time its unrealistic) and as for noone knows who nuked who- i think that should be set up like a espinoge mission with chance of success-civ2 style-and if you nuke them you dont get caught automatically-but it has a 50% chance first turn-40%chance second turn- and so unless you get caught after 5 turns you get away-this would be ignored if it was icbm or tactical or bomber that did it as it would be seen

Also, this next idea only comes in if they keep the SDI-NO-so the idea is nuclear weapons program-small wonder-for every two turns you lower the chance of success for the SDI-every countries- to shoot your nukes, this stops at a 50% chance of shooting nukes down------this would represent one that we did have nuclear testing, two that nukes arent automatically the best they could be, and three it would lower the SDI chance and unbeatableness

NOTE: SDI present percent chance to shoot down nukes in Civ3 is 75%

 

[sir_schwick]

Bombers should defeinitely be on standby on the edge of enemy airspace. In Superpower you had both conventional and 'strategic' warfare.

Nuking shouldn't be completely anonymous. All you should have is where missles are launched from and aircraft(unidentified) in your territory. Strategic encounters should be in real-time, or at least a WE-GO system. Non-air delivered warheads shouldn't be identified, so you have to make a judgement on who is responsible.

continual nuclear reserach...
Its an interesting idea, but probably too complicated for some and easy to manipulate for others. Its a possiblity though, maybe something you have to maintain a minimum level for in the budget.

 

[Colonel]

One thing--- funny this thread has covered all nuclear warfare

Nuclear Subs-There would be two types of Submarines one that could attack other ships and another that had no defense offense

Nuclear Missle Sub-You would order them to a spot and they would X number of Tactical Nukes and could order to fire all missles on the Nuclear Advisor (read before)
Nuclear Attack Subs-Would attack ships and other subs like normal-includeing enemy nuclear missle subs-but they could carry missles


Thoughts yes no