Mistfit’s Quick Domination Attempts

[superslug]

(Question: when you have AI respawn on can you only eliminate them once? Second time they are gone for good?)

I don't honestly recall the particulars (it may even vary by patch/version if changes were ever made), but there have been times I've seen the AI respawn twice. IIRC, it depended largely on if there was a space they could resettle.

Is respawn part of your strategy? If it's annoying it is an optional setting by HOF standards, so you could disable it if you so choosed. As a matter of fact, I've only recently found a reason to turn it on...

 

[bed_head7]

Ginger_Ale posted in another thread that if there is a 5x5 space in which to respawn, the AI will respawn.

 

[superslug]

Ah! That's what I couldn't remember. I was getting mentally confused with 2x3, which I think is the minimum space the AI will use to decide on a city founding via Settler.

 

[Smirk]

1.) I tried hand building the ToA from scratch in my second city but this takes away from building cities so it seems that I am going backwards.
2.) I've started to build granaries in my 1st couple of cities that have a chop available and I think that this helps.
4.) Goodie huts: I can really see the use of popping them after I get a settler from them. The only thing I can get is tech. Really I want to have available as many as possible to research to try for a SGL.
5.) Go for CB as it is least expensive then Wheel pretty cheap and it shows horses. Then Buy Alpha from the AI. ? Next go straight for the Republic slingshot. Then Up the ladder for the Tech that give ToA.

I would only attempt building ToA by hand if you are not hurting your growth by doing it. Same goes for a barracks, I built one in my game because the city in question had good production, but nothing special in the form of food bonuses. If that weren't the case I would just do this further from the capital and deal with the higher corruption in other ways, pop rushing for instance. Course higher difficulties and bigger maps force you to use more resources so results vary.


The goody huts have a formula for spawning a settler, if you have more than 1 city you will not likely get one. Its based on the average number of cities, where you have to be lower or equal to it (this is also why you can't get one the first turn, AI have 0 cities). Also you cannot have a settler building or one walking around.
I think the window of oppurtunity starts the second turn and ends when you're done building warriors, for me I think this is at most 8 turns, (2-10). Beyond that I would abandon the game unless its spectacular in other ways. And in that case you'll just have to switch your settler in production before popping.

I do Burial, Wheel, then Mysticism (the last two can be interchanged), and then decide whether the map is worth it to continue assuming I haven't gotten a leader. If I have got the leader then I pop all the remaining huts and then go from there, but typically its either Writing or Poly.

 

[Mistfit]

Is respawn part of your strategy? If it's annoying it is an optional setting by HOF standards, so you could disable it if you so choosed. As a matter of fact, I've only recently found a reason to turn it on...

Yes I have been playing with it on. Playing the Inca's and using the Chasqui Scout I have found I can pick up typically 2 cities from the AI very early on. What I do is find the city (typically with the free scout) and once I have a Chasqui Scout built I head that way and set up outside the cultural borders. Then the next turn I move in and attack if there is a rWarrior in residence. I have found that the AI will not build spears until they are under attack. If the attack fails I give up because IBT the AI will produce a spear and then I have very little chance of taking the city. I have also found a few capitals completely unguarded and walked in and taken it from them. Once the capital moves they are given around 100 gold and some units and a settler so really they spawn 2 cities for me to take later on. After the IBT after I have taken the city the AI takes peace for their newly found 100 gold. I've not had a game where I've been able to do this to all three AI in the game but I have done it to 2 of them. After I have done this once though I can no longer attack with the Chasqui Scout because there will always be a Spear in residence. What I need to remember is to make sure to wait to do this after I have Republic in hand to get my GA.

 

[Mistfit]

Ok, I've played 12-15 games without getting one single SGL I'm going to change my game set up to try to alleviate the need for ToA. My plan....Use the Celts.

REL and AG.
Religious for cheap temples
Ag for better growth

Plan:
Stay in Despotism for the entire game
Settle city
Wait 10 turns
Pop Rush the Temple

Best case senerio:
Get a SGL and get the Pyramids

I'll be back in a couple of days after I find maps and finish either GOTM or COTM (I've started both and am not really interested in finishing both so I'll have to look to see which one I can complete quicker)

 

[MOTH]

I have been playing fast tiny conquests in PTW with the Aztecs and I came across this map while playing a Warlord level with no respawn and no barbs (or huts). I'm Aztec with English and America as AIs. I got a 560bc Domination win in a bit more than 4 hours playing time.

I'm setting up Mapfinder now to find some good starts on Regent level.

There was one more Cow and an Ivory in the fog. I settled at RCP4 do to the mountain blocking one of the better RCP 3 spots. Never had a second core as I was pretty central to start with.

 

[Smirk]

Pretty nice, you'd need 4 pop to use all of them so I would settle more closely so those can be used in multiple cities.

 

[MOTH]

With the RCP4 sites that I chose I could share all but 2 of the cattle. BY the time I mined 2 of them I was a 4 turn settler pump. During my GA I was able to be a 3 turn settler pump as I easily had +10 food per turn at size 4 but I couldn't get to 15 spt to when running with +10 food...

 

[Mistfit]

Mini Update:
Celts did not work much better for me than 1st attempt so I moved on to the Sumerians to try for the double SGL.

Nice game Moth!

 

[ionimplant]

it seems you have to get a SGL. if you manage to get a win without a SGL, i guess this record should be easily broken by someone who does get a SGL.
that's one reason why SGL is a bad idea in conquest and i really hate conquest.

 

[Mistfit]

Well I have to take a little break from playing. My Mother-in-Law has taken up residence in our guest room for the next nine days and that is where my computer is I suggested to my wife that my MiL could stay in the garage but that did not go over very well It will however give me a break to think about new techniques

 

[LulThyme]

it seems you have to get a SGL. if you manage to get a win without a SGL, i guess this record should be easily broken by someone who does get a SGL.
that's one reason why SGL is a bad idea in conquest and i really hate conquest.

You can have the same argument about an MGL in non conquest, or a settler from a hut in both versions etc...

 

[Smirk]

I agree about SGLs they are the worst addition through all the versions, even worse than the knee-jerk reactionary fix to pop-rushing that made it useless for about a year and a half.

Of course MGL are as potentially unbalancing, but you need a heavy investment in military and the numbers involved make it such that anyone trying to get them will get them. Also, its pretty difficult to get them early. All of this is out the door with SGL, they come as pure luck (5% or 3%) so while every game won't get one, some games do thus they force any highscoring gamer to play and play until they get one. And above all they come **early**, you can get them in 12-22 turns which is crazy unbalancing for any game where growth is important. (Which seems to be just about every game but quick conquest and 20k, but SGLs are even more important for 20k!)


An easy fix to SGLs, make the chance build up but start really low, like 0.1, double it every tech researched first, this way everyone will get one after X techs, but the early luck can be discounted. For instance if it were .5 you would defaintely get one after 9 techs, which balances AA again, lower would be less likely. (.5,1,2,4,8,16,32,64,*)

Too bad this can't be done.

 

[Mistfit]

Instead of a wasted post I thought I'd tell you that I sould have a bunch of time to get at least 1 submission finalized this weekend with my wife being gone. Now...how to get out of work

 

[Mistfit]

Well It took me about 30 games played through to get 1 SGL. I was thinking that the dang thing was broken on my deck


Domination Attempt:
Small World
Sedentary Barbs
Pangaea 80% Water
Normal Temperate 5 billion
I'm Sumeria
Playing against Byzantines/Korea/England
All Victory (except Wonder) on
Culturally linked on
Respawn off
Allowing flips and scientific leaders (fingers crossed)

Result: 470BC Domination 2691 Score

Start:

This however was the excitement for the game

Nothing like hurrying up a build

And the win

The ToA is really fun. I loved squeezing the Koreans!

I submitted this one and await confirmation
Edit: Now Accepted

I will prolly play another set of this to try to get a bit better time.
Funny thing is my first attempt as the Incans was better than this (without a SGL) but I didn't think it was a good game so I tossed it.

What I learned:
I think that a central start is almost as improtant as getting a SGL if you are stuck at the far end of an island it takes far to long to gett your settlers in place.

For some reason I'm still getting used to how the borders expand once it has the temple in it. I think I can improve on my city placement a bit to maximize the amount of land covered by one city.

I completely forgot to place cities on the coast to grab coastal tiles. I guess I was concentrating on the actual land tiles. Coastal tiles do count towards domination right?

I did not get a early settler from a hut...that would have been a bonus

I'm not sure that my earlier prediction about a pre 1000BC win is possible (by me anyhow) but I think with the right map an early hut settler and a SGL I could possibly get to 750BC or so

 

[LulThyme]

Concerning city placement, once the temple expand, you get basically a 5x5 minus the corners, as in good ol civ 1 and 2, with no special rules...

 

[Mistfit]

There is no exceptions to that rule like there is when you first plant the city?

 

[LulThyme]

In the article forum there is a complete explanation of how borders work...
I think you are referring to the fact that if 2 cities share a common level 2 square but are level 1, then you get that square in your border.
IIRC, thats the only exception to the general rule, and there is no equivalent exception for level 2.

Now the best would be to try and find that article (tell me if you have problems).
It explains way more than you want to know, believe me

 

[DJMGator13]

Well done Mistfit. I'm still slowly plugging away at my first HOF submission.