ChrTh
Happy Yule!
If we go with Conquest (I'm not against it), we may want to wait until we've conquered the remaining Iroqi cities so that we have a nice base to attack from...I don't think that'll get us Domination if we do so.
MLDR003 - NOW in the big D
- Thread starter meldor
- Start date
I'm all for Conquest too.
Btw, Meldor, as I have stated before I had several games where the AI researched Combustion before SciM, one was ST2.
This was the main reason I suggested using our leader to have chances for a new one.
As it turned out we would have got another with close to 99% probability.
This is, however, just a minor thing because we had nothing vital to rush.
Even our palace might be located more appropriate in Istanbul than it would be in Edrine.
Just something to consider for future strats.
We chose the save way and did nothing wrong.
Btw, Meldor, as I have stated before I had several games where the AI researched Combustion before SciM, one was ST2.
This was the main reason I suggested using our leader to have chances for a new one.
As it turned out we would have got another with close to 99% probability.
This is, however, just a minor thing because we had nothing vital to rush.
Even our palace might be located more appropriate in Istanbul than it would be in Edrine.
Just something to consider for future strats.
We chose the save way and did nothing wrong.
meldor
Deity
Yes, I have noticed with increasing chagrin, that it has been a long time that our leader has sat while we waste elite victories. We played it the safe way and it seems we should have been more agressive. It also cost us shields when I had to shave dump some of them off the prebuild. I will put it into the "lessons learned" folder. Next game, I will go with using it and then it will go the other way. That is what makes the game interesting even after playing it this long. I am constantly coming across ways in which the AI suprises me in things it does, if for no other reason than pure random chance. Shows what a fine game the developers have put together.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
I've been thinking about this, and my only concern with going for a Conquest victory is that it'll take a few extra turns to do it...not that that's a problem, but I suspect that with C3C imminent, a lot of SG players in non-C3C games are going to be 'distracted' by the new toy. I won't be one of them, since I'm waiting for :santa: , but I'm just concerned that all the SGs, not just this one, will start to fall apart discipline-wise.
That said, I fully support
That said, I fully support
Coffee
Cdn Expat
I see that in C3C the ability to rush great wonders with leaders has been removed. They can still rush the small wonders however.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
I know I saw that this morning and I did a
:suicide: ... but I do think it's a great *balancing* idea, personally.Preturn: We are in really good shape.
With tanks still "a few" turns away we will continue building Sipahis and artillery.
Glad NP left me with a few combat settlers, but greedy me, I still need more, so I swap
a few corrupt cities to settler production.
I see we have still barracks on our continent, so I sell them.
I plant a spy in Carth, they have a strong military compared to us, mainly infantry (170),
only 20 cavs, but 20 ironclades.
I see we can hire even more tax-collectors in hopelessly corrupt cities without aqueduct, increasing
"from taxmen" income to 83 gpt. On the other side, I increase food production in size 7+, corrupt
cities for drafting infantry. I notice that NP left a few Sipahis on our home continent in case
Hanni is planing something stupid.
Begin upgrading the rest of our cannons and a bunch of vet-rifles to infantry.
I notice we still need more transport capacity and order 4 new galleons.
IT: A single Iro cav retreats after attacking Swift Crossing.
Uskudar finishes a Stock Ex. and Kafa it's factory, starts a bank.
Some new units finished and a lot of boarder expansion, NP's libraries towards domination
1405: That's what I like in war games: The diplo check at the beginning of the turns
is less and less time-consuming because less and less opponents are left.
I kill the redlined cav and get an elite inf.
20 artillery units bombard Tonawanda and reduce it from size 13 to size 8
All but one defender (5, one is a cav) are redlined and then killed by our Sipahi without casualties.
I connect Ankara and Spicy Greek with Swift Crossing per railroad.
I move the next combat settler, covered by 5 inf. towards Niagara Falls and their capital Salamanca.
I don't draft this turn because we still lack the transport capacity to ship all of our troops, rush 2 galleons.
Send a lot of workers in the New Arizonaville region to improve our last productive tiles.
I decide we need a spy in Tenochtitlan too. The Aztec military is weak, only one third of Hanni's
and practically no navy (2 ironclades).
IT: The Arabs sink an Iro Frigate.
Another cav attack ends with a dead Iro, cav is just not suited agaisnt inf.
The Iros send two rifles and a settler.
1410: The Aztecs got Combustion, but I noticed that they have no Oil, good.
It's a bit expensive so I don't buy it yet.
The combat settlement Riza gives us acces to both Salamanca and Niagara Falls.
I have 31 art. available for the bombardement of Niagara and redline all 6 defenders,
use the rest of the art, to redline the two rifles on open ground.
We kill the six defenders and the 2 additional rifles,
but lose 2 Sipahi in the process. We get 3 more cannons for upgrading and two more slaves.
The attack on Cattaraugus is no problem, we kill all 4 defenders by losing 1 Sipahi, bothe cities are razed.
Next turn I'm sure we get their capital, just no more artillery available this turn.
I draft about 10 inf. this turn so that we get at least something out of our corrupt cities.
This allows replacing the vet-inf on our home continent and strengthens our military numerically,
allowing our core-cities producing only art. and Sipahi.
We still have no spare galleon to get the 4 rifles between the northern Cart. cities back,
I fortify them on a unused hill.
IT: Hanni at our portas, he demands wines. I reallize that it would be better to finish of
the Iros before taking it to him. Because his military was still described as strong (all those inf.)
he may declare if I don't give in. I give him the wines by the following consideration:
We get a 20-turns insurance policy and can esaily finish off the Iros and maybe even the Aztecs.
Our reputation with him seems trashed anyway.
The Iros land 3 cavs at the island, pollution near Antalya.
1415: I kill all 3 Iro-cavs on the island.
The bombardement of Salamanca, 32 art. are needed to redline 8 rifles and a cav.
We then take them out with Sipahi, losing one and get the Pyramids and Newton.
We also get 5 new worker and 2 cannons.
IT: We lose a fortified inf. to a Iro cav.
Hanni moves his 100+ ironclades near Salamanca.
A Barb camp appears in the former Iro-land north.
1420: Caesarea finishes factory, starts aqueduct.
The Aztecs, not Hanni got SciM.
We steal it carefully and now I can use my own GL
Set Jaipur to ToE and rush it. The only thing that annoyes me is that I can not get Combustion
because Hanni won't accept gpt and I have not enough cash left this turn.
I take our the Barb camp and get 25 gold, next I kill the cav that attacked us in the IT.
IT: The Arabs and the Iros sign a peace treaty.
The Iros really want Salamanca back and attack it with 5 cavs. 2 die, one kills one of
our defenders and 2 retreat. They land the next two cavs on our island, one is killed by
the Aztecs. Urfa finishes it's factory, Steveopolis it's marketplace, starts bank.
Jaipur finishes ToE and we get AT and Electronics, begin min-research on Radio.
With tanks still "a few" turns away we will continue building Sipahis and artillery.
Glad NP left me with a few combat settlers, but greedy me, I still need more, so I swap
a few corrupt cities to settler production.
I see we have still barracks on our continent, so I sell them.
I plant a spy in Carth, they have a strong military compared to us, mainly infantry (170),
only 20 cavs, but 20 ironclades.
I see we can hire even more tax-collectors in hopelessly corrupt cities without aqueduct, increasing
"from taxmen" income to 83 gpt. On the other side, I increase food production in size 7+, corrupt
cities for drafting infantry. I notice that NP left a few Sipahis on our home continent in case
Hanni is planing something stupid.
Begin upgrading the rest of our cannons and a bunch of vet-rifles to infantry.
I notice we still need more transport capacity and order 4 new galleons.
IT: A single Iro cav retreats after attacking Swift Crossing.
Uskudar finishes a Stock Ex. and Kafa it's factory, starts a bank.
Some new units finished and a lot of boarder expansion, NP's libraries towards domination
1405: That's what I like in war games: The diplo check at the beginning of the turns
is less and less time-consuming because less and less opponents are left.
I kill the redlined cav and get an elite inf.
20 artillery units bombard Tonawanda and reduce it from size 13 to size 8
All but one defender (5, one is a cav) are redlined and then killed by our Sipahi without casualties.
I connect Ankara and Spicy Greek with Swift Crossing per railroad.
I move the next combat settler, covered by 5 inf. towards Niagara Falls and their capital Salamanca.
I don't draft this turn because we still lack the transport capacity to ship all of our troops, rush 2 galleons.
Send a lot of workers in the New Arizonaville region to improve our last productive tiles.
I decide we need a spy in Tenochtitlan too. The Aztec military is weak, only one third of Hanni's
and practically no navy (2 ironclades).
IT: The Arabs sink an Iro Frigate.
Another cav attack ends with a dead Iro, cav is just not suited agaisnt inf.
The Iros send two rifles and a settler.
1410: The Aztecs got Combustion, but I noticed that they have no Oil, good.
It's a bit expensive so I don't buy it yet.
The combat settlement Riza gives us acces to both Salamanca and Niagara Falls.
I have 31 art. available for the bombardement of Niagara and redline all 6 defenders,
use the rest of the art, to redline the two rifles on open ground.
We kill the six defenders and the 2 additional rifles,
but lose 2 Sipahi in the process. We get 3 more cannons for upgrading and two more slaves.
The attack on Cattaraugus is no problem, we kill all 4 defenders by losing 1 Sipahi, bothe cities are razed.
Next turn I'm sure we get their capital, just no more artillery available this turn.
I draft about 10 inf. this turn so that we get at least something out of our corrupt cities.
This allows replacing the vet-inf on our home continent and strengthens our military numerically,
allowing our core-cities producing only art. and Sipahi.
We still have no spare galleon to get the 4 rifles between the northern Cart. cities back,
I fortify them on a unused hill.
IT: Hanni at our portas, he demands wines. I reallize that it would be better to finish of
the Iros before taking it to him. Because his military was still described as strong (all those inf.)
he may declare if I don't give in. I give him the wines by the following consideration:
We get a 20-turns insurance policy and can esaily finish off the Iros and maybe even the Aztecs.
Our reputation with him seems trashed anyway.
The Iros land 3 cavs at the island, pollution near Antalya.
1415: I kill all 3 Iro-cavs on the island.
The bombardement of Salamanca, 32 art. are needed to redline 8 rifles and a cav.
We then take them out with Sipahi, losing one and get the Pyramids and Newton.
We also get 5 new worker and 2 cannons.
IT: We lose a fortified inf. to a Iro cav.
Hanni moves his 100+ ironclades near Salamanca.
A Barb camp appears in the former Iro-land north.
1420: Caesarea finishes factory, starts aqueduct.
The Aztecs, not Hanni got SciM.
We steal it carefully and now I can use my own GL
Set Jaipur to ToE and rush it. The only thing that annoyes me is that I can not get Combustion
because Hanni won't accept gpt and I have not enough cash left this turn.
I take our the Barb camp and get 25 gold, next I kill the cav that attacked us in the IT.
IT: The Arabs and the Iros sign a peace treaty.
The Iros really want Salamanca back and attack it with 5 cavs. 2 die, one kills one of
our defenders and 2 retreat. They land the next two cavs on our island, one is killed by
the Aztecs. Urfa finishes it's factory, Steveopolis it's marketplace, starts bank.
Jaipur finishes ToE and we get AT and Electronics, begin min-research on Radio.
1425: I kill the two redlined cavs at Salamanca and the last on the island.
A new combat settlement, Bunker Hill gives us acces to Allegheny.
We redline the 4 defenders with art and bombard the city down to size 6.
For the first time I try leaderfishing, but no luck by killing the 4 units.
We get 3 slaves and a new gun and raze the town after our new inf/settler spearhead
is in place for the next turn.
Because the Aztecs seem to have destroyed one of the small Iro-towns they are down to their
new capital St.Regis and the small town Centralia.
IT: 2 Iro rifles advance at Bunker Hill.
We complete Hoover in Sinop, MFG production increases dramatically and we are Nr.1, Sinop -> factory.
Resistence in Salamanca reduced and the city riots.
1430: A good turn begins with a combat settlement, Hiawatha's End will finish them off.
I bombard St.Regis and redline the 4 defenders, already regulars.
The second elite victory gets us GL ORHAN, was about time.
I take out the two rifles at Bunker Hill after bombarding them with art, get a new elite UU.
Now only Centralia left.
Now I have to stop and ask the team: I will finish off the Iros next turn and we have to
agree on our next victim. Hanni is still strong and will give us Combustion and 310 gpt for
Atomic Theory. This would help us AND slow down the tech pace too.
Additionally we still ship him the wines he demanded.
The Aztec military is a joke, 4 cavs, 1 ironclade, just inf.
Based on this facts I vote for overrunning Monty (no MPP with the Arabs any more)
and finish Hanni later, maybe already with the help of tanks because he has already 200 inf.
With factories and Hoover in place we can only grow stronger in 10 turns.
Suggestions?
Belisar
The situation:
A new combat settlement, Bunker Hill gives us acces to Allegheny.
We redline the 4 defenders with art and bombard the city down to size 6.
For the first time I try leaderfishing, but no luck by killing the 4 units.
We get 3 slaves and a new gun and raze the town after our new inf/settler spearhead
is in place for the next turn.
Because the Aztecs seem to have destroyed one of the small Iro-towns they are down to their
new capital St.Regis and the small town Centralia.
IT: 2 Iro rifles advance at Bunker Hill.
We complete Hoover in Sinop, MFG production increases dramatically and we are Nr.1, Sinop -> factory.
Resistence in Salamanca reduced and the city riots.
1430: A good turn begins with a combat settlement, Hiawatha's End will finish them off.
I bombard St.Regis and redline the 4 defenders, already regulars.
The second elite victory gets us GL ORHAN, was about time
.I take out the two rifles at Bunker Hill after bombarding them with art, get a new elite UU.
Now only Centralia left.
Now I have to stop and ask the team: I will finish off the Iros next turn and we have to
agree on our next victim. Hanni is still strong and will give us Combustion and 310 gpt for
Atomic Theory. This would help us AND slow down the tech pace too.
Additionally we still ship him the wines he demanded.
The Aztec military is a joke, 4 cavs, 1 ironclade, just inf.
Based on this facts I vote for overrunning Monty (no MPP with the Arabs any more)
and finish Hanni later, maybe already with the help of tanks because he has already 200 inf.
With factories and Hoover in place we can only grow stronger in 10 turns.
Suggestions?
Belisar
The situation:
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
The phrase "KILL THEM ALL!!!!!!" leaps to mind ...
The argument against attacking Azteca next: we'll probably finish them off before the wines deal ends anyway. Our rep is shot, and it's not our fault Hanni demanded the wines (it's not like we did an exploit). They'll still be weak after we've finished off Carthage, while Carthage will only get stronger. I say go get Carthage; but don't trade for Combustion first--get it from the Aztecs (iirc they have it)
The argument for attacking Azteca next: we're going for conquest, might as well steamroll over everything while we can.
The argument against attacking Azteca next: we'll probably finish them off before the wines deal ends anyway. Our rep is shot, and it's not our fault Hanni demanded the wines (it's not like we did an exploit). They'll still be weak after we've finished off Carthage, while Carthage will only get stronger. I say go get Carthage; but don't trade for Combustion first--get it from the Aztecs (iirc they have it)
The argument for attacking Azteca next: we're going for conquest, might as well steamroll over everything while we can.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
..and if we do fight Aztecs next, don't forget they have a city on our island
Coffee
Cdn Expat
I favor attacking the Aztecs next. Nice turns.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Do we turn on research? Perhaps skip Radio and see how fast we can get to Mass Production(only 2 techs away)? If we do a 40-turn gambit, we won't have anyone to trade Radio to anyhow (as we'll have eliminated Aztecs and be fighting Carthage at that time, and Arabia is running last).
EDIT: This is obviously predicated on the notion of fighting the Aztecs first
EDIT: This is obviously predicated on the notion of fighting the Aztecs first
meldor
Deity
I would say to proceed with the Aztecs. We can steal techs from Carthage wven if we are at war so that is OK.
If we go for tanks ourself how long to research it at max? Can we get techs at anything close to 6 turns each?
If we go for tanks ourself how long to research it at max? Can we get techs at anything close to 6 turns each?
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
Strong turns, Belisar. 
I think we should pocket Hannibal's 310 gpt for a few turns while finishing off the Aztecs.
On another topic, have Leaders been given any new powers in Conquests to make up for the loss of Wonder-rushing? If not, then they've been so radically reduced in importance that Firaxis almost seems to be admitting that they were a mistake in the first place (which I don't believe).
I think we should pocket Hannibal's 310 gpt for a few turns while finishing off the Aztecs.
On another topic, have Leaders been given any new powers in Conquests to make up for the loss of Wonder-rushing? If not, then they've been so radically reduced in importance that Firaxis almost seems to be admitting that they were a mistake in the first place (which I don't believe).
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
@NP:
Armies are stronger now, so I believe that's the benefit of them...no-move pillage? Are you kidding me? With the AI refusing to attack a defense army?
Note, though, that Scientific GLs can still build great wonders (thus making me think it's an editor flag, and thus can be modified if you'd like).
Armies are stronger now, so I believe that's the benefit of them...no-move pillage? Are you kidding me? With the AI refusing to attack a defense army?
Note, though, that Scientific GLs can still build great wonders (thus making me think it's an editor flag, and thus can be modified if you'd like).
Coffee
Cdn Expat
According to the readme.txt on the C3C CD, armies get +1 move, so a cav army would get 4 movement points, along with free pillaging, blitz, and faster healing, even in enemy territory. Armies were definitely beefed up. Enough to compensate? Dunno, but it is a bit balancing....
Arathorn
Arathorn
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
Thanks for the information, gentlemen. I see the point about stronger armies and the importance of Great Leaders, but it does seem that most of the drama and interest which Leaders have added to the game will be lost.
meldor
Deity
I think the biggest impact will be on the upper level games. On lowere levels you can get away with using one ro two cities for prebuilds to get the wonders. On the upper levels you will ahve to chose bewtween having a prebuild or giveng up one of your few productive cities for a long period. Without prebuilds it will be almost impssible to grab a wonder. Just as most of the early wonders are ignored, now most of the wonder will be ignored period, except ToE, Hoovers, Internet and maybe UN. The rest would jsut have to hang in standard games.
Matbe we will start another NOWD game under conquests to gage the change in difficutly before going farther up the line.
Matbe we will start another NOWD game under conquests to gage the change in difficutly before going farther up the line.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
I miss Belisar 
