ChrTh
Happy Yule!
It's not just the Super Bowl, I'm having car troubles that I'm trying to resolve, there's a hockey game tonight I'm going to, and I got a ton of homework that was due a week ago but I didn't have to do because of the snowstorm ... 
MLDR004 NOW and Again
- Thread starter meldor
- Start date
meldor
Deity
That would put Steve up if he can take it. If not, I guess I can go back to back with NP, I deserve a set up by him...
I was hoping that we would hear from either Belisar or Coffee would come back in before we take the next one on. I would like to step back up to deity or leave it at semi and take on two at a time instead of one. I think the tech situation in diety was made worse by the changes, particularly the science leaders. Now an AI can use the Science Leaders to rush too far ahead. Let's talk about it and which civ we want.
I was hoping that we would hear from either Belisar or Coffee would come back in before we take the next one on. I would like to step back up to deity or leave it at semi and take on two at a time instead of one. I think the tech situation in diety was made worse by the changes, particularly the science leaders. Now an AI can use the Science Leaders to rush too far ahead. Let's talk about it and which civ we want.
Coffee
Cdn Expat
Hello. 
Say listen I'm enjoying lurking now and only playing some solo games infrequently. I don't feel that I want to go beyond this level of civ activity.
My nickel, I think you guys should try AWDG. Perhaps communism for the end game. From the discussion in "The cultured Communists" SG it looks like this government with the Special Police HQ could keep pace with AI science. The GL + Communism + bombers as the general idea. The Sumerians look interesting. One final note, the game generates fewer resources and luxuries. IIRC this happened in early PTW also and it is a glitch.
Say listen I'm enjoying lurking now and only playing some solo games infrequently. I don't feel that I want to go beyond this level of civ activity. My nickel, I think you guys should try AWDG. Perhaps communism for the end game. From the discussion in "The cultured Communists" SG it looks like this government with the Special Police HQ could keep pace with AI science. The GL + Communism + bombers as the general idea. The Sumerians look interesting. One final note, the game generates fewer resources and luxuries. IIRC this happened in early PTW also and it is a glitch.
Arizona_Steve
King
Just put me at the end of the list then... I wouldn't want a repeat of LotR12 now, would I?...
Oh... and "got it"...
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
If we do AW, we should probably start on E, not DG.
And don't worry Steve, I doubt it'd happen again ...
And don't worry Steve, I doubt it'd happen again ...
Arizona_Steve
King
(0) 1715AD
I have no idea what the tech steal probabilities are, but with nearly 2,500 gold in the bank we can afford either an immediate or careful tech steal from Arabia. I try immediate, and our spy is caught. Replanting a spy there fails, so I'll have to wait until next turn.
IBT:
Lots of stuff builds. I switch a couple of cities to fighters to get us some defence against Arab bombers.
(1) 1720AD
I decide to head straight for the Arabic core and raze it to the ground. I bring together all artillery, three infantry armies and a lot of hussars on a mountain two tiles to the East of Basra.
Once again I am unable to replant our spy.
IBT:
Graz completes Battlefield Medicine. At 87 shields per turn it can build a fighter per turn.
(2) 1725AD
I note that TOW infantry have appeared. One defends a radar tower next to Basra. He gets bombed down to 1 hitpoint. After attaking the city with Arillery, I kill off the TOW with a hussar army, and pillage the oil under the (now destroyed) radar tower.
I try again to replant our spy, with no success.
(3) 1730AD
Again I bomb Basra, reducing it to size 3, and killing a redlined Mech Infantry with a bomber. A hussar army next to the city has an easier time killing the two redlined mechs in the city than the last remaining tank, but the city is razed.
This time I succeed in replanting our spy. To top it off I then attempt a careful steal of Radio, and succeed, getting us into the Modern Age. The Arabs are up Rocketry and Computers.
(4) 1735AD
I start the bombing campaign on Muscat with those artillery that are in range (plus a number of bombers). There will be many more artillery available next turn. Apart from destroying a number of buildings and a destroyer in port, I am only able to knock the population down to 17 from 18.
IBT:
The Arabs switch their attack from Yekaterinburg to Novgorod and take the city with a stream of tanks and Mech Infantry. We lose four bombers as a result
(5) 1740AD
I get round to cleaning up pollution in our homeland, and readjust a couple of starving cities.
I kick some MI butt in Muscat, bombing the city down to size 9 and killing three MI with bombers. A hussar army is within range, and takes out the last redlined MI, and the city is razed.
IBT:
I am totally brain dead right now, as I leave Eisenburg inadequately defended and it gets captured.
The blasted Arabs manage to build two cities on out "french" island, in addition to landing a mech infantry and a TOW. And there is no airport on the island either!
(6) 1745AD
I continue to be worried about Fez. At size 16, it's sure to flip to the Arabs, so I rebase all bombers that are sitting there, and abandon it.
I shift some artillery around and redline the two mech infantry defenders in Eisenburg and a tank sitting outside. A single hussar army disposes of the three of them, and Eisenburg is ours again.
Novgorod is bombed and two hussar armies take the city.
(7) 1750AD
Troop consolidation. A settler is moved in to replace Fez.
Another careful steal from the Arabs nets us Computers.
Bad Gastein is founded next to what was Arab oil. There is an infantry army to guard it.
Neusiedl founded to replace Fez.
Finally remember to rush the airport at Guessing (on the French Island).
(8) 1754AD
Mostly bombing.
(9) 1756AD
With a bunch of mech infantry airlifted in from the mainland, I start bombing the two Arabic cities on the ex-French landmass. With both cities empty of troops, I auto-raze them with mechs. A couple of cities are changed to settler to replace the Arabic blight.
(10) 1758AD
A bunch of troops turned up during the interturn. Three mechs, two tanks and two TOW. These are all redlined with artillery. Hussar armies are used to dispatch the mech infantry, then I use elite units to attack the tanks and TOW. No leaders though.
We have enough money for a safe tech steal, and the Arabs have Rocketry available.
The vast majority of our bombers and fighters are in Novgorad, so that Meldor can use them to bomb the crap out of Arabia. After playing with them, I'm starting to agree that they are overpowered, especially with the lethal bombard. I saw one bomber take three hitpoints off a mech on several occasions.
Meldor's turn to play with the uber-bombers...
I have no idea what the tech steal probabilities are, but with nearly 2,500 gold in the bank we can afford either an immediate or careful tech steal from Arabia. I try immediate, and our spy is caught. Replanting a spy there fails, so I'll have to wait until next turn.
IBT:
Lots of stuff builds. I switch a couple of cities to fighters to get us some defence against Arab bombers.
(1) 1720AD
I decide to head straight for the Arabic core and raze it to the ground. I bring together all artillery, three infantry armies and a lot of hussars on a mountain two tiles to the East of Basra.
Once again I am unable to replant our spy.
IBT:
Graz completes Battlefield Medicine. At 87 shields per turn it can build a fighter per turn.
(2) 1725AD
I note that TOW infantry have appeared. One defends a radar tower next to Basra. He gets bombed down to 1 hitpoint. After attaking the city with Arillery, I kill off the TOW with a hussar army, and pillage the oil under the (now destroyed) radar tower.
I try again to replant our spy, with no success.
(3) 1730AD
Again I bomb Basra, reducing it to size 3, and killing a redlined Mech Infantry with a bomber. A hussar army next to the city has an easier time killing the two redlined mechs in the city than the last remaining tank, but the city is razed.
This time I succeed in replanting our spy. To top it off I then attempt a careful steal of Radio, and succeed, getting us into the Modern Age. The Arabs are up Rocketry and Computers.
(4) 1735AD
I start the bombing campaign on Muscat with those artillery that are in range (plus a number of bombers). There will be many more artillery available next turn. Apart from destroying a number of buildings and a destroyer in port, I am only able to knock the population down to 17 from 18.
IBT:
The Arabs switch their attack from Yekaterinburg to Novgorod and take the city with a stream of tanks and Mech Infantry. We lose four bombers as a result
(5) 1740AD
I get round to cleaning up pollution in our homeland, and readjust a couple of starving cities.
I kick some MI butt in Muscat, bombing the city down to size 9 and killing three MI with bombers. A hussar army is within range, and takes out the last redlined MI, and the city is razed.
IBT:
I am totally brain dead right now, as I leave Eisenburg inadequately defended and it gets captured.
The blasted Arabs manage to build two cities on out "french" island, in addition to landing a mech infantry and a TOW. And there is no airport on the island either!
(6) 1745AD
I continue to be worried about Fez. At size 16, it's sure to flip to the Arabs, so I rebase all bombers that are sitting there, and abandon it.
I shift some artillery around and redline the two mech infantry defenders in Eisenburg and a tank sitting outside. A single hussar army disposes of the three of them, and Eisenburg is ours again.
Novgorod is bombed and two hussar armies take the city.
(7) 1750AD
Troop consolidation. A settler is moved in to replace Fez.
Another careful steal from the Arabs nets us Computers.
Bad Gastein is founded next to what was Arab oil. There is an infantry army to guard it.
Neusiedl founded to replace Fez.
Finally remember to rush the airport at Guessing (on the French Island).
(8) 1754AD
Mostly bombing.
(9) 1756AD
With a bunch of mech infantry airlifted in from the mainland, I start bombing the two Arabic cities on the ex-French landmass. With both cities empty of troops, I auto-raze them with mechs. A couple of cities are changed to settler to replace the Arabic blight.
(10) 1758AD
A bunch of troops turned up during the interturn. Three mechs, two tanks and two TOW. These are all redlined with artillery. Hussar armies are used to dispatch the mech infantry, then I use elite units to attack the tanks and TOW. No leaders though.
We have enough money for a safe tech steal, and the Arabs have Rocketry available.
The vast majority of our bombers and fighters are in Novgorad, so that Meldor can use them to bomb the crap out of Arabia. After playing with them, I'm starting to agree that they are overpowered, especially with the lethal bombard. I saw one bomber take three hitpoints off a mech on several occasions.
Meldor's turn to play with the uber-bombers...
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
I got it. I'll post what I get done today, and finish up tomorrow.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Turn 0 -- 1758 AD
(BTW, game is now on 1.15)
I raze Stockholm, and pillage the nearby Oil. Unfortunately, there's another near Kufah...
I capture Vladivostok.
I capture Moscow, netting the Temple of Artemis....and Sun Tzu...and Smith's...and Universal Suffarage. I win
I try to steal Rocketry carefully, but fail. Spy not caught, though.
Arabs are down to 61 Mech Inf, 16 Inf, 26 TOW, 8 Arty, 1 Tank, 1 Bomber
IT:
Ineffectual counterattacks by the Arabs (although I do lose a Mech Inf in Moscow)
Turn 1 -- 1760 AD
Aarhus gets the London treatment
Aarhus is razed.
Leinz is built nearby
Guntramsdorf and New Vienna are built to culture-lock Auld France
Stopping here for now. We're at 62% of the world. I'll keep a sharp eye and not let it go to 66%.
(BTW, game is now on 1.15)
I raze Stockholm, and pillage the nearby Oil. Unfortunately, there's another near Kufah...
I capture Vladivostok.
I capture Moscow, netting the Temple of Artemis....and Sun Tzu...and Smith's...and Universal Suffarage. I win
I try to steal Rocketry carefully, but fail. Spy not caught, though.
Arabs are down to 61 Mech Inf, 16 Inf, 26 TOW, 8 Arty, 1 Tank, 1 Bomber
IT:
Ineffectual counterattacks by the Arabs (although I do lose a Mech Inf in Moscow)
Turn 1 -- 1760 AD
Aarhus gets the London treatment
Aarhus is razed.
Leinz is built nearby
Guntramsdorf and New Vienna are built to culture-lock Auld France
Stopping here for now. We're at 62% of the world. I'll keep a sharp eye and not let it go to 66%.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Turn 1 continued
Clean up some messes
IT:
We lose a Hussar to a TOW
TUrn 2 -- 1762 AD
I bomb a destroyer until it sinks
An elite Hussar kills the last tank that the Arabs possess, and he's rewarded with a GL! I create a Mech Inf army
Medina is given the London treatment, but there aren't any troops in range this turn.
I attempt to steal tech, and our spy is caught. I try to plant a new spy, and fail.
IT:
Nada
Turn 3 -- 1764 AD
Oh no! A Bomber is shot down over Medina! I think it was a Stealth Fighter...
Attempt to plant a spy fails
Medina is bombed and razed. New Graz is founded nearby.
Birka is razed.
We take St. Petersburg, and get the Mausoleum of Mausallos. BTW, the commerce bonus for an old wonder doesn't get eliminated when you conquer a city
Bergen is razed.
The Arabs are now denied horses and RUBBER.
Ok, that's all I have time for tonight...I'd pass it on, but I'm having too much fun Whatever I get done up until Thursday night (my time) I'll pass it on at that point.
We're at 63%. Arabs have no Rubber. GAME OVER, MAN!
Clean up some messes
IT:
We lose a Hussar to a TOW
TUrn 2 -- 1762 AD
I bomb a destroyer until it sinks
An elite Hussar kills the last tank that the Arabs possess, and he's rewarded with a GL! I create a Mech Inf army
Medina is given the London treatment, but there aren't any troops in range this turn.
I attempt to steal tech, and our spy is caught. I try to plant a new spy, and fail.
IT:
Nada
Turn 3 -- 1764 AD
Oh no! A Bomber is shot down over Medina! I think it was a Stealth Fighter...
Attempt to plant a spy fails
Medina is bombed and razed. New Graz is founded nearby.
Birka is razed.
We take St. Petersburg, and get the Mausoleum of Mausallos. BTW, the commerce bonus for an old wonder doesn't get eliminated when you conquer a city
Bergen is razed.
The Arabs are now denied horses and RUBBER.
Ok, that's all I have time for tonight...I'd pass it on, but I'm having too much fun
Whatever I get done up until Thursday night (my time) I'll pass it on at that point.We're at 63%. Arabs have no Rubber. GAME OVER, MAN!
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Urge to play...rising...
IT:
Nothing...no counterattack at all!
Turn 4 -- 1766 AD
Bombing of Mecca begins. We lose a bomber, but kill off an interceptor. We also kill some planes on the ground. Unable to bomb away any of the ground troops. Will try again next turn.
Trondheim is taken. I keep it in order to position troops for the remaining southern cities
We raze two more southern cities (didn't catch their names)
Madab falls, the South has been eliminated
Rostov is eliminated.
Unable to plant spy.
TO BE CONTINUED!
IT:
Nothing...no counterattack at all!
Turn 4 -- 1766 AD
Bombing of Mecca begins. We lose a bomber, but kill off an interceptor. We also kill some planes on the ground. Unable to bomb away any of the ground troops. Will try again next turn.
Trondheim is taken. I keep it in order to position troops for the remaining southern cities
We raze two more southern cities (didn't catch their names)
Madab falls, the South has been eliminated
Rostov is eliminated.
Unable to plant spy.
TO BE CONTINUED!
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
The South Shall NOT Rise Again!
meldor
Deity
Cherry picking...
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
:shotgun: 
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
Regarding MLDR05, I think I'd rather move back up to deity than make any of the suggested changes to our premise (two enemies at once, or AW). It seems to me there'll be more than enough new challenge in deity NOW without much chance of the Great Library.
Arizona_Steve
King
Actually the Great Library is about the easiest wonder to get on Deity. The AI civs completely ignore Literature.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Turn 4 continued
Clean up some leftover troops in the south
We're at 64% ...
IT:
Nada, except some Destroyer action
Turn 5 -- 1768 AD
I switch tactics...instead of going after Mecca again, I'm going to go after Baghdad. The hope is that by razing it, it'll make the southern cities easier to capture so that I'll get more done this turn. We'll see...
Still unable to plant a spy. But our army is now 'stronger' (before we were 'average')
Bombing of Baghdad begins ... lose 2 bombers to fighters. Raze Baghdad.
Harumph, eliminating Baghdad didn't help the Southern Cause.
Gleisdorf is built near where Baghdad was. Troops find Abu Bakr hiding in a spider hole.
IT:
Our transport kills a destroyer!
Turn 6 -- 1770 AD
Molde riots? With 2 Content Citizens?
Unable to plant a spy
Mecca gets the London treatment...and FALLS (although a couple Hussar armies may have died due to a certain player's overeagerness to destroy Mecca)
IT:
Nada
Turn 7 -- 1772 AD
Before I bomb, I decide to see if I can artillery and conquer Yaroslavl' ... and it's razed without breaking a sweat.
I pillage the only fur to give Arabia a nice little lux hit.
Bombers actually aren't in range of a reachable city, so I take advantage to move them forward to New Graz. New Graz already has a few bombers, so I destroy all improvements on the Wines near Yo Ma Ma. Arabia now has no luxuries
Again I fail at planting a spy
I sacrifice an Auld France Ville in order to prevent an accidental domination victory.
IT:
A tank dies assaulting Gleisburg.
A convoy of 4 destroyers helps protect a transport which lands ONE TANK on our homeland!
Turn 8 -- 1774 AD
Kill the tank on our homeland. Still can't plant a spy.
Operation 'Bomb the lone Oil' is a resounding FAILURE as 4 of our bombers get shot down! ... but I find an extra bomber, and the Oil is denied Arabia.
Yamama is blitzed (they do well, shooting down like 4 bombers with Ack-Ack and jets), and taken. We have Magellan's Voyage! Since it's only Pop 1, I keep it.
Turn 9 -- 1776 AD
No luck planting a spy
Anjar is destroyed
Turn 10 -- 1778 AD
STILL can't plant a spy.
Damascus is destroyed
Khurasan goes down ... two capitals in 1 turn
Ok, I think that's enough
Going forward ... just destroy Arabia I've semi-positioned troops to eliminate Shiraz and Fustat next turn, but meldor, it's your game, so do what you want
Here's what's left:
And here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR4_1778_AD.SAV
Clean up some leftover troops in the south
We're at 64% ...
IT:
Nada, except some Destroyer action
Turn 5 -- 1768 AD
I switch tactics...instead of going after Mecca again, I'm going to go after Baghdad. The hope is that by razing it, it'll make the southern cities easier to capture so that I'll get more done this turn. We'll see...
Still unable to plant a spy. But our army is now 'stronger' (before we were 'average')
Bombing of Baghdad begins ... lose 2 bombers to fighters. Raze Baghdad.
Harumph, eliminating Baghdad didn't help the Southern Cause.
Gleisdorf is built near where Baghdad was. Troops find Abu Bakr hiding in a spider hole.
IT:
Our transport kills a destroyer!
Turn 6 -- 1770 AD
Molde riots? With 2 Content Citizens?
Unable to plant a spy
Mecca gets the London treatment...and FALLS (although a couple Hussar armies may have died due to a certain player's overeagerness to destroy Mecca)
IT:
Nada
Turn 7 -- 1772 AD
Before I bomb, I decide to see if I can artillery and conquer Yaroslavl' ... and it's razed without breaking a sweat.
I pillage the only fur to give Arabia a nice little lux hit.
Bombers actually aren't in range of a reachable city, so I take advantage to move them forward to New Graz. New Graz already has a few bombers, so I destroy all improvements on the Wines near Yo Ma Ma. Arabia now has no luxuries
Again I fail at planting a spy
I sacrifice an Auld France Ville in order to prevent an accidental domination victory.
IT:
A tank dies assaulting Gleisburg.
A convoy of 4 destroyers helps protect a transport which lands ONE TANK on our homeland!
Turn 8 -- 1774 AD
Kill the tank on our homeland. Still can't plant a spy.
Operation 'Bomb the lone Oil' is a resounding FAILURE as 4 of our bombers get shot down! ... but I find an extra bomber, and the Oil is denied Arabia.
Yamama is blitzed (they do well, shooting down like 4 bombers with Ack-Ack and jets), and taken. We have Magellan's Voyage! Since it's only Pop 1, I keep it.
Turn 9 -- 1776 AD
No luck planting a spy
Anjar is destroyed
Turn 10 -- 1778 AD
STILL can't plant a spy.
Damascus is destroyed
Khurasan goes down ... two capitals in 1 turn
Ok, I think that's enough
Going forward ... just destroy Arabia
I've semi-positioned troops to eliminate Shiraz and Fustat next turn, but meldor, it's your game, so do what you wantHere's what's left:
And here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/MLDR4_1778_AD.SAV
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
Enjoyed the writeup. 
Isn't it conventional wisdom on this board that if one attempt to plant a spy in a given enemy capital fails, it's impossible to succeed for the next few turns?
Isn't it conventional wisdom on this board that if one attempt to plant a spy in a given enemy capital fails, it's impossible to succeed for the next few turns?
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
It might be ... I thought it was just the same turn. Can anyone enlighten?
Coffee
Cdn Expat
Not sure about the spy, its likely the AI is communist making it much more difficult for you to plant one. I doubt that the odds for success would change from turn to turn. The RNG might have something to do with it, so restarting the game could improve the odds. I found it interesting that you had to replant a spy after capturing the capital however.
Offtopic and on the subject of AW, I have an emperor game going and revolted to communism from republic. Its a small map game and as before I wanted to see the effect on science. Corrupt shields dropped from 188 to 93 -> 50%. Luxury dropped from 10% to 0% Science went up to 70% from 50% to keep the same 8 turns in this case.
Its pretty cool, cash rushing bldg's before communism, building the SPHQ and other such things would boost things some more. That puts comminism in the same league as republic if prepared for correctly. I didn't do that in this game as I am well ahead in tech and already have flight.
Offtopic and on the subject of AW, I have an emperor game going and revolted to communism from republic. Its a small map game and as before I wanted to see the effect on science. Corrupt shields dropped from 188 to 93 -> 50%. Luxury dropped from 10% to 0% Science went up to 70% from 50% to keep the same 8 turns in this case.
Its pretty cool, cash rushing bldg's before communism, building the SPHQ and other such things would boost things some more. That puts comminism in the same league as republic if prepared for correctly. I didn't do that in this game as I am well ahead in tech and already have flight.
meldor
Deity
I finished this one last night but when the game gave the victory screen I found we were missing something else in Pedicons.txt file so I won't be able to post the results until I it fixed. Seems that the program should be smart enough to have a default for these things if they aren't there....
