1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Kael, May 18, 2006.

  1. The Rebel 1000

    The Rebel 1000 Lord Love a Duck!

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    Oregon
    The AI in this game seems to be forced towards barbarian expansion and development more than the civilizations themselves!!! I set up a game as Bannor, and I met the Grigori and the Hippus, and barbarians. Whoo-hoo, did I meet barbarians!!! I made an expansion quite fast, which was good because the damn barbarians wouldn't leave me alone for crap!!! At times it seemed like I would lose, but I only lost the city once, and then it was retaken in the same turn by an adept. There were two barbarian cities that were spamming warriors in pairs, faster than I could count them! I found this complete and utter :):):):):):):):), so I went to the worldbuilder to sort it out. THE NEXT TURN THEY WERE IN THE SAME PLACE. SAME UNITS. EXACT SAME POSITION. After about five rounds of this, I made an expansion farther away with two of my warriors, to get the death mana in the broken scuelter or however you spell it (yes, that's right, I'm playing as Bannor with death mana. The summons are damn useful.). I saw two barbarian cities again, one in a different place (only because the Hippus took the area where one was) and just as garrisoned as if my presence wasn't even noticed. At this point, I was really mad at the AI. Seriously, why are the barbs that important?? If the civilizations survive it all (I lose a good civ or two each normal game I play) nad settle the important areas, then it won't even matter!! Why make them that insistent and annoying and imbalanced? If I could spam units like that, I'd win the games in an instant! Obviously a lack of opinions were provided on this topic when the patch was being made. After a few more out-of-the-blue barbarian attacks on my new expansion, I gave up giving them slack and quit the game.
     
  2. The Rebel 1000

    The Rebel 1000 Lord Love a Duck!

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    Oregon
    Post came on another page, I stayed on the same page, I summarized it in this and I can't get rid of it.
     
  3. Breunor

    Breunor Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,388
    Location:
    Earth
    I suspect it is a matter of experience. I find the current version of BtS quite a lot harder than FfH. In BtS, I was a monarch/emperor player. In FfH, I'm an immortal/emperor player.

    I think most experienced FfH players feel this way; the reason this occurs is that FfH has a lot more 'stuff' than regular BtS and it is much easier for the human player to understand how to integrate it all. However, for new players to FfH these extra features can be daunting. Stick with it, most of us find that the rich array of choices not only makes play stronger but also more enjoyable.


    I think most of the FfH community doesn't feel that the catapults are very strong. They are very slow. Because they aren't living, they cannot be 'hasted' with the haste spell.

    If you are finding that the artillery is pounding you, you probably aren't building enough mobile troops or raods within your empire (or simply not enough troops!). Try to grab some cavalry (like regular BtS) or the recon line - they should take the artilley out. Note that artilley is very weak on defense, you kill the escorts, they are toast.

    Note that the dwarven trebuchets are killers, but they are suppsoed to be. Try the same tactics though.


    Teching is important. While horsemen can beat catpults and theri stacks, horse archers will annihilate them! Of course, similar results happen to other parts of the tech line. If you have mages, catapults will be wasted by fireballs and worse.

    So catapults just aren't that powerful. However, they WILL take you down if you are behind in units so, like BtS, you must have a strong military and be ready to respond.


    FfH can be polarizing, the natural fight between good and bad guys is more likely. There is a lot of 'flavor' in this mod. The key to winning - have a powerful military!

    Note that FfH is more 'military' based than BtS. So, yes, the advantage of higher tech is lower in FfH than in BtS.

    Only the Grigori get adventurers. The adventurers are the Grigori 'thing', every Civ have special advantages. In BtS, you have a unique unit and building that is somewhat stronger. In FfH, your Civ has HUGE advantages in some areas that you have to use. Don't try to win with the Calabim without building vampires!

    A recent poll listed the Grigori as one of the weaker Civ's, for which I agree. Your tactics are good - get the adventurers upgraded to axemen and conquer with them, good going! Learn the same tricks for the other Civ's and then move up a levelor 2!

    Adepts don't get a +1/turn, they get sporadic XP's with time. If your adepts were upgraded Grigori Adventurers, then they should be getting the +1; note, however, it stops at 100 XP's. Note that adepts will get XP's from combat but it has to be direct combat - spells and summons that hurt or destroy the enemy do not add XP's.

    The civilopedia is out of date. It hasn't been upgraded because of large changes to the game. However, make sure you go intot he FfH subforum, there are literally hundreds of pages of help of all kinds.

    The link is here:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=190

    Because we think it is great. It is hard to get started, but that is becuase it has a rich detail of lore, strategy, and ideas that I find absolutely unique; and the numbers seem to indicate others do to.

    So I recommend that you go on the subforum, look at the strategy articles, read some of the key postings, and try it. Most people find they like it, as I said I find it to be without peer.


    Best wishes,

    Breunor
     
  4. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,867
    Location:
    In transit
    I found the AI in ffh to be somewhat stupid in certain areas. In many of them, Rise from Erebus fixes or improves the behavior of the AI. That's one of the reasons I moved to RifE.
     
  5. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    14,450
    Location:
    Crestview FL
    I'd just like to say, most of that AI work is not my own. It's either from FF, or from a modmod...modmod. :lol: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=334473
     
  6. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,867
    Location:
    In transit
    Whatever the source, it's definitely a step up from FFH itself.

    I'm not trying to be critical of FFH... with those efforts where would we be.

    I just personally find the AI to be half of what makes the game enjoyable. It's a back-end "hidden" area of a mod which isn't very obvious, and is often ignored or takes second seat to more obvious improvements such as new units, graphics, or game mechanisms. Yet, the AI has MUCH more of an impact on the game experience than those things.
     
  7. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    8,726
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    It's just that AI is pretty hard to make good. :)
     
  8. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    14,450
    Location:
    Crestview FL
    Agreed. And Sephi has done alot in that regard. ;)
     
  9. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,867
    Location:
    In transit
    Yeah. A lot of good things in life are hard to do. Which is why I said that I wasn't denigrating FFH, but giving kudos to RifE.
     
  10. The Rebel 1000

    The Rebel 1000 Lord Love a Duck!

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    Oregon
    Can anyone help me out of this scrape in a game in FfH?

    I'm playing bannor, I have tower of necromancy, and my empire is divided into two parts, seperated by the Malakin, which have the Ashen Veil (they converted for unknown reasons, probably because of Sheim interference. The Veil has almost no precence in their cities.). I am battling the Sheim in the north, which have gotten in trouble with the Khazad and are spamming pyre zombies as a counter for his champion spamming. I have taken a city from the Sheim and all my units are wounded from pyre zombie splash. My army is divided into one or two champions, mainly consisted of demagogs, and there is a catapult in the mix. The Sheim lie across a channel that seperates me and the Khazad as well. The Sheim have no navy.

    The Clan of Embers is by my western empire, on the other side of the Malakim. The tiles are miainly consisted of desert and flood plains (strange combination, no?). I am at war with the Clan. They attempted to assault my city that acts as a cork to keep them out of my lands. They were unsuccesful in their assault. I took out two of the three fleeing shaman. I started massing demagogs by the Malakim, waiting for the caravel's arrival to be transported to the war in Sheim lands. Things changed and they are now by a Clan city, which lies across a large bay. The city is filled with archers, but my army should be able to take them out, as they are outnumbered and I have brought along a catapult. I have many forms of mana, but my most wanted, life mana, lies beyond my reach, as I am teching up to berzerkers. I am a bit lost on what to do in the immediate future.
     
  11. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,867
    Location:
    In transit
    Safest? Make peace with one of the two you're at war with and focus all your efforts on the other.

    If you have lots of towns now would be the time to use your world spell and you could probably take out both of them.

    Most fun would be to make peace with both of them (or not) and take out the Malakim and consolidate your empire. By the time you're done I'm sure you'll be fighting again with the Clan or the Sheaim, so things will proceed from that point.
     
  12. The Rebel 1000

    The Rebel 1000 Lord Love a Duck!

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    Oregon
    I think that is a good idea, but the Malakim have had little else to do, so they have teched up a bit. My demagogs will die if I make peace, so I will maybe take a city from the clan and make peace then.

    Anyway, for some reason I can't enter diplomacy with the Sheim, but I have decided to back off a bit and let the Khazad take it from here. No progress was being made, and if the Sheim decide to come oversea, I will simply sink their ships with the caravels and frigates that I have been using to transport demagogs to the Khazad city in the immediate vicinity.

    I have gotten berzerkers, and I am able to get life mana to take out the zombies later, so I will see what happens with the Clan and hope that Decius doesn't use his arquebuses on me...
     
  13. The Rebel 1000

    The Rebel 1000 Lord Love a Duck!

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    Oregon
    JESUS! What is the deal with the overcouncil treaty 'adopt civic'? I had absolutely no idea what it was. It canceled my crusade and virtually all my military abandoned me in spite. Screw that game. It's over. GG.
     
  14. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,612
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    So where do you download this RiFe mod? I can't seem to find it... although I have found some other cool stuff.
     
  15. Breunor

    Breunor Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,388
    Location:
    Earth
    Don't joint he overcouncil if you are the Bannor! Its just a matter of learning the tricks, the same thing happened to me (and to msot FfH players). Just reload an autosave from before, or simply change civics to get out of the overcouncil and bring crusade back.

    Best wishes,

    Breunor
     
  16. The Rebel 1000

    The Rebel 1000 Lord Love a Duck!

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    Oregon
    Thanks. I wouldn't have gotten the autosave part of that. Good thing you told me before I started another! I am the leader of the overcouncil, so I don't think that it poses much of a threat, as there are only 2 members, including myself. As such, it is obvious that I am in the lead when it comes to power in the overcouncil, as the other member is Cardith Lorda of Kuriorates. He doesn't have any towns other than his 'core' cities, so I vastly outnumber them. Thanks for the help, Breunor, and a happy new years to all!
     
  17. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    8,726
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    Overcouncil power does not work like it does in the Vanilla game, you get 1 vote point for being a member, and additional points from other sources, like Chalid and the Malakim UU. And possibly the Empyrean shrine?
     
  18. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    14,450
    Location:
    Crestview FL
    Follow the link in my sig. ;)

    That is one of the main reasons I moved Crusade to a membership civic. Can't be in a council AND in a crusade in RifE. ;)
     
  19. The Rebel 1000

    The Rebel 1000 Lord Love a Duck!

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    Oregon
    Well, it kinda works like the U.N. in vanilla civ, how the whole voting system works, but there were only two members, so I was in no danger of being forced into an unwanted treaty, but I had no clue what the civic was, and the way I figured it, it was a 1 in 5 chance that it was crusade that would be canceled. Oh well, back to killing orcs...
     
  20. The Rebel 1000

    The Rebel 1000 Lord Love a Duck!

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    Oregon
    Wait a second...

    That would mean that everyone in the overcouncil would get crusade!
     

Share This Page