[MOD] Fall from Heaven II
- Thread starter Kael
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MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
You are not the first person to ask that today. I already answered in post 7068.
If you have the Trojan Rabbit, you can load Acheron on board and move him about (slowly). Then you can ake him to a city to either serve as a defender or to load him on a boat, sail him around as a floating Meteor Storm platform.
Nor'easter
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
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Omegon3 said:
I've captured Acheron twice. Once he had already been promoted to Mobility I. The second time he had enough XP (probably from having killed the first two beastmasters I sent after him) that I was able to give him the Mobility I promotion.
Probably, but it's more fun to move him around and attack cities in person given his strength.
Blasting them with a meteor, then letting Acheron feed works well I've found.You were very lucky though, given that he usually kills one or two beastmasters during the process of capturing him (or some other high-level unit), that (promotion to Mobility I) should have occurred to me.
I've never had the problem of being at peace with the barbarians by the time I get beastmasters. They usually declare war on me far before that (as soon as I get sufficiently "civilized"). This point will occur at different points in the game based upon how fast you progress -- though I've found with their new building that creates two units for every one built that you can reach this level pretty fast (nice building, but it's sometimes difficult to schedule -- especially when I only WANT a single unit in a city). You can also kill your economy pretty fast in this way since cities are super-fast to found.
MagisterCultuum, I asked this question in an earlier post and didn't get a response so I'll try it again... Does the wonder that provides a weaponsmith in every city defeat the ability to get a minotaur (though I still get mobius witches via the "mage guild" wonder)? I've played the Sheaim several times and have NEVER gotten a minotaur (all the other units I do get several of). Alternatively, does this (getting minotaurs out of weaponsmiths) actually work?
Thanks.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I believe it does. I've seen them spawn before, but they are rare. That is mostly because by the time you have those buildings you also have most if not all of the other planar-gate-unit-producing buildings. The way it works is each turn it generates a list of the units a city could spawn (based on the buildings, the number of those unit you already have, the AC, etc), and then randomly picks a unit from the list. If a city can generate more units, the chance for any one unit goes down.
What's a little strange is how many of the other big beasts (another starting with "m" -- I don't have the game currently up and my memory isn't worth sh*t!!) I get. Typically I get the weaponsmiths BEFORE I get the large animal building. HOWEVER, if the minotaurs are dependent on the AC, then that would explain it. I'm pretty much chicken sh*t so don't play with it...
OK... I've asked this question before and I'm going to try again because it freakin' drives me crazy. I have never been able to figure out the rate at which discipline and arcane units earn experience points. It's obvious that discipline units progress MUCH more slowly than arcane units -- especially at the higher point levels. However, what gets me is when I wind up with a unit with more experience that was trained LATER than another unit. For example, my capital typically builds its arcane (and discipline) units almost as soon as I have the ability to train them and I wind up with arcane (and discipline) units at newer cities where they came into the world later.
So... Does ANYONE know the rate and how arcane and discipline units earn experience?
Thanks in advance for anyone that can provide an answer.
So... Does ANYONE know the rate and how arcane and discipline units earn experience?
Thanks in advance for anyone that can provide an answer.
GhostQ
Warlord
I'm not exactly sure about the formula; but I believe every caster has a chance of earning an XP point per turn. The same thing you explained happened to me today; I've built an adept, after he gained about 7 xp, I built another with 2 xp, and without any combat xp the latter had the Archmage title earlier than the former. That's why I'm thinking it's a chance per turn to earn xp; because otherwise it would be impossible for the 2nd one to surpass the 1st one's experience without any combat.
About disciples vs. arcanes; are you sure you didn't have the arcane trait when arcane ones received xp much faster. Or maybe you were just unlucky with the xp earn rolls with the disciples that time. And I believe Paladins, Paramanders and the like, I mean disciple units who fight and don't cast spells don't earn xp while sitting on their backs. If the xp is indeed received via rolls for casters, maybe it is intended disciple casters get slower xp(have a lower chance) than arcane ones and that's the reason. But, imho, that shouldn't be the case as arcane casters are more powerful. Anyway, I hope I was able to help you.
Kael
Deity
It starts with a value equal to 0 minus the units current xp.
Then it goes through all the units promotions, there are a few that effect xp:
Arcane (from the trait): +10
Channeling 1: +20
Channeling 2: +30
Channeling 3: +40
Unholy Taint: +20
It adds those up then applies a percentage chance equal to that number of giving the unit an experience point.
So if we had an Amurite adept with 7 xp. He would have the Arcane trait and the Channeling 1 promotion. That given him -7 + 10 + 20 = 23% chance of getting an xp that turn.
If we had a non-arcane trait Archmage with the Unholy Taint promotion and 45 xp that would give him -45 + 20 + 30 + 40 + 20 = 65% chance of getting an xp that turn.
Then it goes through all the units promotions, there are a few that effect xp:
Arcane (from the trait): +10
Channeling 1: +20
Channeling 2: +30
Channeling 3: +40
Unholy Taint: +20
It adds those up then applies a percentage chance equal to that number of giving the unit an experience point.
So if we had an Amurite adept with 7 xp. He would have the Arcane trait and the Channeling 1 promotion. That given him -7 + 10 + 20 = 23% chance of getting an xp that turn.
If we had a non-arcane trait Archmage with the Unholy Taint promotion and 45 xp that would give him -45 + 20 + 30 + 40 + 20 = 65% chance of getting an xp that turn.
Thanks for the reply, Kael and GhostQ!! I guess the random odds kind of explains why a later built adept can get more experience points than an earlier one. However, it doesn't explain (I don't think?) why discipline units seem to gain experience slower. I have no problems getting archmages, liches (provided I get death mana sufficiently early), and summoners. But getting prophets and inquisitors can sometimes be a REAL pain -- I'll start them as early as possible and frequently only see a couple reach that level in a game.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Apparently free buildings didn't count for planar gate units, but will be changed in 0.31 (which Kael just said should come out Friday)
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
free buildings also didn't count for the Circle of gaelan. mage guild given by the catacombs don't spread the guild.
So the real trick in attacking Archeron is to do the following:
1. Get a stack with the following:
a. Lots Warriors with no promotions, aka Cannon Fodder
b. An adept to cast Courage
c. An Adept to cast Haster
d. A really strong Beastmaster with Subdue Beast
2. Move your stack 1 tile away from the Dragon Horde City so that Archeron can't Meteor Blast them.
3. Cast Courage on the stack so everyone can attack Archeron
4. Cast Haste so the warriors can close the distance to Archeron
5. Burn up as many of the warriors as you can, to:
a. Whittle Archeron's strength down,
b. Use up his 1st strikes
c. Most Importantly: Build up a massive number of XPs. Each Warrior should add at least 1 XP.
6. Once Archeron has has gobbled up enough of your warriors to get his next promotion (or two), finish him that same turn with your Beastmaster
You should have Archeron all primed to at least add Mobility I, if not other promotions.
GhostQ
Warlord
He means the Stoneskin promotion Acheron has on him when he spawns. That gives him 3 first strikes in addition to ignoring the first 3 hits; removing that promotion via sacrificing some low tier troops increases the odds quite a lot.
It's also a good idea to have some capapults or cannons to break the defense down on the city. Typically you don't get beastmasters until later in the game and Acheron's city has had the opportunity to jack up its defense (typically 60%). If you're looking to get at least one promotion for Acheron, hitting him first with a higher-level unit (before weaking him down so that he can be taken) is typically sufficient. After that another Beastmaster SHOULD be able to take him. When I've used weaker units I've found that I need to use a LOT to get him down sufficiently to take. If I have war chariots I'll typically hit him with one of those (granted I'll need to train another one) and a beastmaster can then USUALLY take him (after I've broken the defenses down on the city).
