[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Kael]

Got great at capturing animals now..... I thought you needed a carnival to let the captured animals use their (ability) to turn into "attractions" caged lion, dancing bear etc: I am able to let the animals use their ability as soon as they get into a city long before development of carnival, is that supposed to work that way?

The dancing bear can be added to any city, with or without a carnival. The rest should require a carnival.

 

[Webrider]

wolf and lion can be added befor carnival, checked in the city page and they show up as adding to the culture +3. I am keeping my bears alive as 4 strength fighters until I want to build more or get to axemen.

 

[Kael]

wolf and lion can be added befor carnival, checked in the city page and they show up as adding to the culture +3. I am keeping my bears alive as 4 strength fighters until I want to build more or get to axemen.

You are correct, I will get that fixed for 1.0. Thanks!

 

[Dragonlord]

I've played several games now where war weariness resumes as soon as the player goes to war again. If was is declared on you this isn't the case, but starting a war against an opponent you've allready been at war with (and declared war upon) refosters the unhappiness. I haven't seen if this disappears if you attack other civs, then go back to the one that you first attacked.

Sorry to bug you, Kael, but you haven't adressed the WW issue yet, which several others have also touched on since my post a couple of pages back.

IMO, there's a bug here somewhere - the problem is not the WW as such, but as CurtisC stated: WW resumes at the high level of a previous war, it doesn't seem to get cleared by a period of peace.
I never noticed this in Vanilla, so I'm guessing it has to do with this Mod.

Edit: Just as a reminder, we're talking crippling levels of WW here: I had -17 from WW in my capital on resuming a war after a period of peace.

 

[Chalid]

Sorry to bug you, Kael, but you haven't adressed the WW issue yet, which several others have also touched on since my post a couple of pages back.

IMO, there's a bug here somewhere - the problem is not the WW as such, but as CurtisC stated: WW resumes at the high level of a previous war, it doesn't seem to get cleared by a period of peace.
I never noticed this in Vanilla, so I'm guessing it has to do with this Mod.

Edit: Just as a reminder, we're talking crippling levels of WW here: I had -17 from WW in my capital on resuming a war after a period of peace.

This is a vanilla feature. It isn't related to the mod.

 

[cordas]

Yeah I could definitly push the AI to rush archers, in fact a ton of that was done to get the AI where it is now. I kinda like where it is, the AI builds a variety of units, but Ill look at boosting archers a little.

As for the barbarians they are supposed to be low culture low health cities. When you lose a culture flip to the barbarians you KNOW your doing something wrong.

I would rather they don't rush straight to archers, but they do need to be speeded up a little.

I have never lost a city to barbarians by culture flip *LOL*, and don't expect too, but when they have old well established cities what haven't even had the 1st border expansion then they are in trouble. Would it be possible to give barbarian cities the 1st border expansion X turns after the city is founded if it hasn't already expanded (say 30 turns). Or when a city reaches a certain size the borders will automatically expand that 1st step, this could be a global rule affecting players and AI as well. If you make it size 6 or 7 then its not something that many players would wait for.

I have come across barbarian cities that are 12-15 in size with 2 workers sitting idle in the city, and resources that the city is unable to tap just outside its borders because they haven't had the 1st expansion.

 

[cordas]

wolf and lion can be added befor carnival, checked in the city page and they show up as adding to the culture +3. I am keeping my bears alive as 4 strength fighters until I want to build more or get to axemen.

Are captured animals going to get the chance for promotion and upgrade?

I think it would be fairly cool if they do, they should certainly get the subdue animal promotion (as I freebie would be my choice). I would also allow them to upgrade to Rangers.

If its going to be a while till version 1 is realeased would it be possible to give scouts capture animal as a freebie so that we have a chance to capture more than 2 or 3 before they vanish?

 

[Fr8Train]

I was playing a lot of multiplayer in the last 12 hours. We got lots of crashes and out of sync issues. One that I could steadily reproduce was whenever my inquisitor would win a battle and "convert" a unit I get an out of sync. Summoning still does crash, but it is inconsistant. Didn't have any problems with Genesis, but Purge the unfaithful always gives an out of sync.
Happy debugging!

 

[Kael]

Sorry to bug you, Kael, but you haven't adressed the WW issue yet, which several others have also touched on since my post a couple of pages back.

IMO, there's a bug here somewhere - the problem is not the WW as such, but as CurtisC stated: WW resumes at the high level of a previous war, it doesn't seem to get cleared by a period of peace.
I never noticed this in Vanilla, so I'm guessing it has to do with this Mod.

Edit: Just as a reminder, we're talking crippling levels of WW here: I had -17 from WW in my capital on resuming a war after a period of peace.

Yeah, as Chalid said thats in the engine. Its nothing that has been changed by the mod. I could add more WW reducing buildings and civics but it sounds like in general you don't like the fact that the WW counter comes down slowly after a war, it doesn't just clear. Although I could probably force it clear I like the fact that your people remember you were at war a few short years ago.

I will probably add a few civs in phase 2 that have a dramtically reduced war weariness, no war weariness or reverse war weariness (they are happy at war and angry when they aren't).

 

[Kael]

Are captured animals going to get the chance for promotion and upgrade?

I think it would be fairly cool if they do, they should certainly get the subdue animal promotion (as I freebie would be my choice). I would also allow them to upgrade to Rangers.

If its going to be a while till version 1 is realeased would it be possible to give scouts capture animal as a freebie so that we have a chance to capture more than 2 or 3 before they vanish?

They probably won't ever upgrade. I added the person graphic to the pic just because it ws hard for me to tell which animals were mine and which were AI animals. The intent is just that it is a tame lion, wolf or whatever.

Im hoping that 1.0 will release soon.

 

[CurtisC]

Yeah, as Chalid said thats in the engine. Its nothing that has been changed by the mod. I could add more WW reducing buildings and civics but it sounds like in general you don't like the fact that the WW counter comes down slowly after a war, it doesn't just clear. Although I could probably force it clear I like the fact that your people remember you were at war a few short years ago.

Hmmm, Well does war weariness reduce porportionally to the number of actual years passed in unmodded civ4 (as opposed to turns)? I suppose I've encountered returning war weariness in normal civ4, but maybe this is exacerbated by the fact that only ten or so years have passed in FfH (as opposed to like at least 20 or 100 in vanillla civ after a 10 turn break)? I def notice it more in late game civ4, but it seems to be constant during FfH. Not saying you should change anything, but it is an interesting situation. Off to surf the forums.

Role playing wise this certainly makes sense. Who in the heck, besides the Shrub, wages war every 10 years?

 

[arthurtuxedo]

The problem with war weariness, as implemented in Civ 4, is that it forces a 20th century concept into all eras, where it doesn't necessarily apply. Throughout history, people have mostly been happy to be at war, especially when they are winning. The idea of people rioting in the streets in Medieval Europe in protest of the Crusades, for instance, is patently absurd. They were glad to be sticking it to the "heathens". I also didn't read about too many people refusing to work during World War II because they were so upset about sticking it to the Nazis. Not every war is grossly unpopular like Vietnam or World War I, and pretending like they are is both unrealistic and detrimental to gameplay.

 

[Bringa]

[...] or reverse war weariness (they are happy at war and angry when they aren't).

Now THAT is one kick-ass idea. It'll be a pain to balance it, I imagine, but it sounds really awesome Can't wait to see that.

 

[Opuhara]

is it a bug ? you can airlift units to airports while being constructed, before their completion, from a city where you have already one.

wonderful mod, thanks

 

[Corlindale]

is it a bug ? you can airlift units to airports while being constructed, before their completion, from a city where you have already one.

As far as I know, you can Gate units to any city, and only the city it travels from needs to have an Obsidian Gate.

 

[Furin]

Dear FFH Team,

what do you think of adding diseases in the mod? I was thinking of something like the black plague. It could spread like a religion and hit huge unhealthy cities more likely than small healthy ones (killing population for some time). After a couple of years the disease could go away by itself or earlier by active use of healers or massive prayers to the gods, or maybe by sacrificing the weak and unhealthy to the gods (one time pop loss which causes unhappyness)

Other random or religion triggered events like natural catastrophes could happen too (vulcanoes, earthquakes or tsunamis for example). Dwarfes could be safe from earthquakes and Overlords from Tsunamis etc. Changeing Religion could maybe make the gods unhappy and add to the chance of a god specific catastrophe to happen (for some turns). Overuse of magic could do bad things too.

This sounds all very difficult to implement for me so maybe in Version 5.0

 

[Sisonpyh]

Dear FFH Team,

what do you think of adding diseases in the mod? I was thinking of something like the black plague. It could spread like a religion and hit huge unhealthy cities more likely than small healthy ones (killing population for some time). After a couple of years the disease could go away by itself or earlier by active use of healers or massive prayers to the gods, or maybe by sacrificing the weak and unhealthy to the gods (one time pop loss which causes unhappyness)

I hated the diseases in Civ III. One of the most annoying things, ever.

 

[Furin]

I hated the diseases in Civ III. One of the most annoying things, ever.

Oh I am sorry, I never played CIV3. I was not aware that diseases were already there.

About seafearing, how about grabbing the code from the mine and give a seafearing civ the chance to discover new fish ressources on a worked on sea tile?

 

[Nikis-Knight]

That's a good idea! maybe a unique strategic sea resource could be found this way.

they should certainly get the subdue animal promotion

Most animals *eat* the animals they "defeat". It brings to mind a funny image of a lion with a train of subsevient elephants, hyenas, hipppos, etc. to fight it's battles.

 

[Kerrang]

The problem with war weariness, as implemented in Civ 4, is that it forces a 20th century concept into all eras, where it doesn't necessarily apply. Throughout history, people have mostly been happy to be at war, especially when they are winning. The idea of people rioting in the streets in Medieval Europe in protest of the Crusades, for instance, is patently absurd. They were glad to be sticking it to the "heathens". I also didn't read about too many people refusing to work during World War II because they were so upset about sticking it to the Nazis. Not every war is grossly unpopular like Vietnam or World War I, and pretending like they are is both unrealistic and detrimental to gameplay.

Some very valid points there, historically, which side is winning, and where the frontlines are located has alot to do with war weariness. Ideological, or religious differences can play a major role in mitigating war weariness as well. If you can demonize the enemy, like was done against the nazis in WW2 (not that it wasn't warranted), then your people may actually get behind the war rather than protesting it. The strength of the governments hold over the people can also influence them with regards to war weariness.

It might be a good idea to look at all government civics, and add some type of war weariness modifier to them. More tyranical governemts are going to have a tighter control over their people, and this will effectively reduce the effects of war weariness. This may cause unhappiness in general, because of the tyranny, but the unhappiness is not going to change much whether the nation is at war or not, especially if the war is being fought on foreign soil. In contrast, benevolent governments are going to have more people protesting war in general (and thus, more war weariness), but if the enemy is seen a oppressive, and the battle is being fought close to home, the population is going to rally around the flag, and take up arms against the invaders. This is not really reflected in Civ4 at this time.

I don't know if religious differences and proximity to the frontline can really be accounted for in this manner with the limited modding available at this time, but Kael may want to give this kind of thing some thought for phase 2.

Of course, from a Dark Fantasy perspective, I think the idea of civs that enjoy war, and are not happy unless they are at war, is an awesome idea.