[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Kael]

I made some thought about werewolves. I like their concepts, but they should be something more... unique and special. So I have few proposals (For phase 2, I believe)
First of, I think that any race should be able to have them, not only race which builds Halfmorn. How about giving wild wolves lycantrophy promotion, so that any unit which WINS fight against wild wolf has 10% chance that it will be turned into wherewolf. Second, werewolves are wild, uncontrolable beast, and there must be some downside in using them. I would give them +25% attack, -25% defence (Just attach this to their 'werewolf' promotion). Also, if any unit with werewolf promotion enters city, it would construct «Werewolf presence» building (You said that this can be done via 'on move' python command) It would give harsh unhappyines penalty and gold reduction due to their pillaging, and also small chance each turn that city would reduce population by 1-2 and spawn another werewolf (They are attacking civilians after all). Finally you can give them random chance (each turn) that they will pillage tile they are standing on.
Well most of this is for phase 2, but what do you think about ideas?

I like the fact that the werewolves are limited just to the civ that builds Duin. Because of that they are a majpr factor in some games, and little effect in others. I like that because it makes the game different. I would like to have other factors like that, but i dont want to increase the role of werewolves.

I really like the idea of limiting werewolves in cities. Unfortunatly the AI wouldn't understand the effect you describe, so it would destory its won cities if that was in place. I may be able to make werewolves simply unable to enter allied cities which may accomplish the same flavor but be easier for the AI to deal with.

 

[Kael]

When using the recruits ability is the commander supposed to recruit 3 of the best units available (aka the top tier units currently buildable?).

If so, in my last game the commander recruited horsemen although chariots were available and hunters although Macemen were available. He correctly choose Longbowmen for the ranged but no other ranged was buildable yet. (version 0.95 patched)

If not, nevermind.

The computer selects 3 random endgame units, then builds as close to it as it can. So for your horsemen it may have picked knights, been unable to build then so it steps down to horse archers, been unable to build them so it steps down to horsemen. The progression is opposite the upgrade patchs since it works from the top down instead of the bottom up.

It also only uses the tech to decide what it can and cant build. It ignores buildings or resources needed.

 

[Kael]

Im not saying this mod is incomplete im not been disrespectetful i propaly im nit picking but have you UUs planned for the next update?

UU's will be added when the full civs are implemented in phase 2. Version 1.0 won't have any UU's.

 

[Kael]

The building was there, I could upgrade the units manually in the same turn. Thus my question if it is intended to spawn the lowest tier units (to be manually upgraded as see fit) or the highest possible ones (to make better use for the loss of a great person).

One more question. Will it be possible to add great commanders as specialist to a city in 1.0 (or later?)

There are no plans to be able to add great commanders as city specialists. There may be some military factos that influence creation though.

 

[Kael]

This mod, so far, is fantastic. I am really impressed with the amount of work put into it so far...and all for free.

I'd like to say, however, that after playing for several hours, I have realized that the best way to completely destroy the ai is simply to rush to conjurors and attack everything in sight with them. They are completely unstoppable. A stack of 4 to 6 of them is like having a stack of swordsman that NEVER DIE. It's just sick. And as the ball gets rolling, eventually I'll have dozens of them running all over, and the computer has no chance. Oh, and as if that's not enough, I will make sure I have one unit with haste so that they can destroy everything twice as fast, and for extra craziness I will sometimes summon the elementals first, THEN haste... so the elementals can now move 3 even.

Something has to be done... for starters, at least make conjurors strength 1. At the very least, now I'm forced to make a couple defensive units to stack with them. They also need some sort of counter, perhaps some sort of unit that not only gets a bonus vs. fire elementals, but also damages the conjuror with the same amount of damage it does to the elemental or something. Maybe even just make the elementals themselves weaker instead, like maybe 4 instead of 6.

I haven't tested this out extensively yet, but my initial assesment is that elementals are just insane.

I think you are right. I will be at a minimm lowering the mages strength. I dont know if i will be lowering the spells strength yet though.

 

[burningbeard]

Hey,
not sure if this is a bug or deliberate. I founded the order and received the expected acolyte, however when i spread the order to another of my cities, with the aforementioned acolyte, i recieved another acolyte, and so on for other spreads. The order also spread naturally to some of my cities, where i also recieved a free acolyte. This continued until all my cities had the order, which only took a few turns.
Upon founding a new city and spreading the order to it i did not recieve a free acolyte.
If this is deliberate, i couldn't see anything in the pedia, then it seems a bit overpowered.

 

[Kael]

You could replace railroads with laylines.



I think having them turn in combat would make more sense, after all that sated bloodlust... I would exclude Baron Halfmoon from turning barbarian, he should as a specail character stay loyal to the civ that created him. I think it might be an idea to lower the chances of a werewolf being created (certainly by lesser beasts).

I would also give a victorious unit over a werewolf to become a were unit. i.e. Maceman defeats werewolf - 10% chance the Maceman is infected and becomes wereMaceman and is now unable to follow the normal upgrade path but can become a more powerful Blooded WereMaceman with +2 strength and then a greater weremaceman +4 strength. You could just make the victorious unit become a werewolf, but this might be a bit harsh to have your level 15 Maceman or Warelephant turned into a lowly werewolf after a victorious battle.

This would allow the were's to be accessible to every civ.

C.Roland mad some updated roads, some engineered roads that will offer increased movement (and something for your midgame workers to do).

In my mind Werewolves forget their previous lives and dont retain anything of what they were. A mechanic similiar to what you are describing may be used for vampires though. But it won't be accidently transfered, it will be gifted to units as the civ controller desires.

 

[Kael]

Wow... I've been playing this mod for a day now... Just wanted to say it is unbelievable, I swear the fundamental gameplay beats the original... I had prepared a whole brief on how there should be buildings to build specific units and allow unit advancements, and BAM there it is in this mod... I'm so happy I could cry

Something I had thought of in my proposal

- Wonders that create advanced weapondry in the form of a resource
- Specialiced workers (and the guilds that they require) that build cobblestone roads or specific improvements

Also check out and see if you can borrow some alterations made with Sevomod namely the sevopedia, the enhanced military screen (he borrowed too I think) and the unit icon which displays activity and health bars.

Argh people have arrived to make drink!!! great mod!!!

There are buildings and wonders that provide advanced weaponry now (Weaponsmith, armory and the Dragons Hoard).

I like the idea for the specialized workers. im not sure what we are going to do with the advanced roads yet, but Ill think about adding them to specialized workers.

 

[Kael]

need to fix the hunter view somehow LOL they look like scouts and i got a city taken by one because i moved my hunter out of the town and left jsut a newbie warrior. the hunter looked like a abrbarian scout how was i too know it was a barbarian hunter LOL of the two the scout and warrior approching the hunter took off after the warrior then the hunter stole the newly won city Grrrrrrrr

Scouts should be a pair of units and a hunter should be a single unit and a wolf.

 

[Kael]

Kael,
Here are my latest findings dealing with multiplayer (only tested with 2 players):
* Winning a battle with slavery enabled that would result in creating a slave causes a out of sync error 90% of the time.
* Winning a battle with an inquisitor that would convert the defeated unit seems to cause a out of sync error all the time.
* Winning a battle with Baron Duin does not cause any out of sync errors. I would be interested in seeing how the code for Duin differs from the slavery and inquisitor code.
* Summoning Fire elementals and other units only crashes if the other player is in a city screen or a screen outside of the main map.
* Building purge the unfaithful always causes out of sync - I have never seen an out of sync from any of the other wonders.

Hope this helps!

This is perfect information, exactly the sort of feedback I need. Here is the code segments you mentioned:

Slavery:

		if pPlayer.getCivics(gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVICOPTION_LABOR')) == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVIC_SLAVERY'):
			if (pLoser.getUnitCombatType() != gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_DEMON') and pLoser.getUnitCombatType() != gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_NAVAL') and pLoser.getUnitCombatType() != gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL') and pLoser.getUnitCombatType() != gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_FIRE')):
[b]				iRnd = random.randint(1, 100)[/b]
				if iRnd <= 25:
					CyInterface().addMessage(pWinner.getOwner(),True,25,'Slave captured.','AS2D_DISCOVERBONUS',1,'Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Slave.dds',ColorTypes(8),pWinner.getX(),pWinner.getY(),True,True)
					newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_SLAVE'), pWinner.getX(), pWinner.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI)

Inquisitor:

		if pWinner.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_COMMAND')):
			yType = unitY.getUnitCombatType()
			if (yType == gc.getInfoTypeForString("UNITCOMBAT_MELEE") or yType == gc.getInfoTypeForString("UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER") or yType == gc.getInfoTypeForString("UNITCOMBAT_RECON") or yType == gc.getInfoTypeForString("UNITCOMBAT_MOUNTED")):
[b]				iRnd = random.randint(1, 100)[/b]
				if (iRnd <= 50):
					newUnit = playerX.player.initUnit(pLoser.getUnitType(), pWinner.getX(), pWinner.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI)
					newUnit.finishMoves()
					newUnit.setDamage(50, False)
					newUnit.setExperience(pLoser.getExperience(), -1)
					newUnit.setLevel(pLoser.getLevel())
					for iCount in range(gc.getNumPromotionInfos()):
						if (pLoser.isHasPromotion(iCount)):
							newUnit.setHasPromotion(iCount, True)

Werewolf:

		if pWinner.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_WEREWOLF')):
			if (pLoser.getUnitCombatType() != gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_DEMON') and pLoser.getUnitCombatType() != gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_NAVAL') and pLoser.getUnitCombatType() != gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL')):
				iNumWW = pPlayer.getUnitClassCount(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_RAVENOUS_WEREWOLF')) + pPlayer.getUnitClassCount(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_WEREWOLF')) + pPlayer.getUnitClassCount(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_GREATER_WEREWOLF'))
				iRand = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(100, "Bob")
				if (iRand <= 100 - (3 * iNumWW)):
					CyInterface().addMessage(pWinner.getOwner(),True,25,'Lycanthropy has spread.','AS2D_WOLF',1,'Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Ravenouswerewolf.dds',ColorTypes(8),pWinner.getX(),pWinner.getY(),True,True)
					newUnit = playerX.player.initUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_RAVENOUS_WEREWOLF'), pWinner.getX(), pWinner.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI)
					newUnit.finishMoves()
					newUnit.setDamage(50, False)

The only major difference between these code segments are that I am using the random library to generate randoms in the 2 functions you are having problems with. I used to use the random library to gen randoms before I relealized that Civ4 has its own function for doing it (getSorenRandNum). Interestingly I was looking through the other sections you have problems in and I noticed this:

Purge the Unfaithful:

		if iBuildingType == gc.getInfoTypeForString('BUILDING_PURGE_THE_UNFAITHFUL'):
			pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(player)
			CyInterface().addMessage(pCity.getOwner(),True,25,'The Inquisition strikes again!','AS2D_INQUISITION',1,'Art/Interface/Buttons/Actions/Pillage.dds',ColorTypes(7),pCity.getX(),pCity.getY(),True,True)
			for i in range(pPlayer.getNumCities()):
[b]				iRnd = random.randint(0, 3)[/b]
				cf.FFHInquisit(pPlayer.getCity(i), iRnd)

There aren't any other places in code where that function is used. So I am going through the code now and converting them all from random to getSorenRanNum for 1.0.

Thanks for the feedback, hopefully it makes a big improvement in multiplayer games!

 

[bcr1776]

This mod is playing more smoothly than CIV IV vanilla!

What is the latest .95 patch version. I have "e" loaded.

 

[Kael]

Few notices after playing dozen games (.95)

I get werewolf everytime i attack with baron Duin everytime my werewolf wins fight it upgrades to higher level (yes every time)
worker on auto newer builds farms or mines just whores windmils and cotages
Game NEWER crahed for me so far in SP as in MP



I read civ changes for version 2? ...Can we hope more race specific units like human /orc /undead spearman etcetc with dif bonuses and stuff ?

Its a sliding scale for the werewolf upgrades. The change is 100% minus 3% for every werewolf you have (exccept Duin). So you should grab 10 or so pretty easily then start to notice faliures getting more and more frequent until you get up to about 30.

Werewolves always upgrade from Ravenous to Blooded Werewolves after their first kill. The less frequent upgrade is for a Blooded Werewolf to Upgrade to a Greater Werewolf, which only happens 5% of the time.

The design list for phase 2 is being built right now. Yes, we hope to have different units for the different races that will make them play differently. The orcs, for example, would have similiar units to the human tree but orc versions of them (missing some, and greater amoutns of others). So the orcs probably wont be able to build arquebus or knights but may be able to build 9 berserkers.

 

[Kael]

I'm really having much fun with Vitalize the Land - what about enhancig the terraforming options?

Here are some ideas:

- workers can turn grass into plains

- settlers (or a special terraformer unit, maybe dwarves) can both flatten and create hills; they are consumed by this action
- additionally, adjacent peaks will be turned to hills, and coast to flat land

- Meshabber of Dis should leave a trail of destruction, automatically turning the tile he's occupying into desert and remove every resource, feature and improvement (hey, this is Armageddon after all )
- add another, similar demon which leaves a trail of ice instead (or even ocean?!)

- settlers should be able to immediately create a village or town (consumes the settler)

- Druids can create rivers and floodplains. Maybe force the Terraintype to desert then (and maybe don't change floodplains with Vitalize the Land/Genesis, so that food yield is limited to 3, not to 4 or 5)

- Octupus Overlord state religion allows the construction of a powerful sea demon that can turn adjacent land tiles into ocean

- Two new national wonders which become available with Alchemy and Commune with Nature: They allow the construction of special, very expensive units that serve only one purpose: Plant a new resource! Each resource (copper/iron/mithril for Alchemy, all animal/plant resources including sea food for CwN) corresponds to a unique unit, is required to build this unit, and the unit is consumed upon planting the resource. Suggested costs on normal speed: 2000 for the wonder, 500 for the units.

We plan to have terraforming play a major role in phase 2. I want forest fires in phase 2 (it was one of the first ideas Woodelf posted in this thread) and I hope that will be the destruction Meshabber leaves in his wake.

A lot of the reason terraforming doesnt play a larger role is the AI doesn't really get it. So we are working with the AI in the new spell system right now to get it to understand when it is approproate to improve the land, and when it is appropriate to reduce the land the defiler unit was speced for phase 1 and cut because the AI would ruin its own land).

 

[Kael]

Just an idea, untested...

Mages and conjurers now can move and cast in one turn.
Seems like it is a strong bonus to the human player - I personally have some battles where I moved mages from city defence, cast, and come back under defence. Or casted spells while approaching enemy cities. i.e. little extended cast range.
AI, on other hand, "use" it very bad - there was situations, when AI-controlled mage cast fireball ito my stack, then attack this stack himself (hoping for collateral damage, I suppose - it still have this flag in XML config)...

What if made casting cost one (or all) move points (in the same script as creating 'fireball' unit)? The conjured unit will still have his personal moves to attack enemy.
Probably it will prevent AI from kamikaze mage/conjurers attacks and remove some exploits from human players.

(possible problem will be AI leaving unguarded mages with suddenly removed moves, but I hope he will not...)

We actually cant do this in the current system because the mages always cast before they move. If we took movement away then an AI mage would never leave the city he was created in. This will all be so much better in the spell system Talchas wrote for Phase 2. With it I can assign whatever cost I want to each spell. So I can have certain spells kill the casters movement, and other ones don't.

 

[Kael]

I have noticed these same things in multiplayer. In addition causing disease by attacking with units that have that ability also seems to make the game go out of sync.

Right you are:

		if pWinner.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_DISEASED')):
			pPlot = pLoser.plot()
			for i in range(pPlot.getNumUnits()):
				pUnit = pPlot.getUnit(i)
[b]				iRnd = random.randint(1, 100)[/b]
				if (iRnd <= 50 and not pUnit.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_IMMUNE_DISEASE'))):
					pUnit.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_DISEASED'), true)
					CyInterface().addMessage(pLoser.getOwner(),True,25,'Unit Diseased.','AS2D_DISEASED',1,'Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/Diseased.dds',ColorTypes(8),pLoser.getX(),pLoser.getY(),True,True)

		if pLoser.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_DISEASED')):
			pPlot = pWinner.plot()
			for i in range(pPlot.getNumUnits()):
				pUnit = pPlot.getUnit(i)
[b]				iRnd = random.randint(1, 100)[/b]
				if (iRnd <= 50 and not pUnit.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_IMMUNE_DISEASE'))):
					pUnit.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_DISEASED'), true)
					CyInterface().addMessage(pWinner.getOwner(),True,25,'Unit Diseased.','AS2D_DISEASED',1,'Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/Diseased.dds',ColorTypes(8),pWinner.getX(),pWinner.getY(),True,True)

I will get these (and all random calls) out of the code.

 

[Kael]

Hey,
not sure if this is a bug or deliberate. I founded the order and received the expected acolyte, however when i spread the order to another of my cities, with the aforementioned acolyte, i recieved another acolyte, and so on for other spreads. The order also spread naturally to some of my cities, where i also recieved a free acolyte. This continued until all my cities had the order, which only took a few turns.
Upon founding a new city and spreading the order to it i did not recieve a free acolyte.
If this is deliberate, i couldn't see anything in the pedia, then it seems a bit overpowered.

Yes, this is intended. The order spreads FAST! If you had researched fanaticism when you did all this you would have been getting crusaders instead of acolytes which is even better.

There is one bug where you get mroe acolytes than you should that is fixed in 1.0 (its listed int eh first post in this thread). But it is intended to spead fast.

 

[edu2003mdq]

I like the fact that the werewolves are limited just to the civ that builds Duin. Because of that they are a majpr factor in some games, and little effect in others. I like that because it makes the game different. I would like to have other factors like that, but i dont want to increase the role of werewolves.

I really like the idea of limiting werewolves in cities. Unfortunatly the AI wouldn't understand the effect you describe, so it would destory its won cities if that was in place. I may be able to make werewolves simply unable to enter allied cities which may accomplish the same flavor but be easier for the AI to deal with.

Werewolves are very powerful units! I got to build Baron Duin in one of my games and ended up conquering the whole world. Once I got 3 or 4 greater werewolves no one had a chance cuz behind them there were several blooded werewolves and many, many ravenous werewolves. They are too powerful. I love werewolves!!!

 

[bcr1776]

This mod is playing more smoothly than CIV IV vanilla!

What is the latest .95 patch version. I have "e" loaded.

The latest patch file is: http://www.civfanatics.net/~kael/files/FfH095e.exe and it resolves the following issues.

 

[Cykodelik]

Dunno if you allready thought of this but how about having mages slowly increase in XP like heros and casting; - (levels, resests the level requirement and XP then casts). That way "resting" a mage unit could even let it cast higher level spells and mages get toned down as they can no longer spew forth an armagedeon style fireball barrage every turn.

Btw the idea of questing is just too damn cool, are we talking unique promotions here

 

[Kael]

Dunno if you allready thought of this but how about having mages slowly increase in XP like heros and casting; - (levels, resests the level requirement and XP then casts). That way "resting" a mage unit could even let it cast higher level spells and mages get toned down as they can no longer spew forth an armagedeon style fireball barrage every turn.

Because the AI wouldn't understand it and wouldn't know that it should save up its fireballs for the right time. Instead it would cast one whenever it had the option, regardless of if it was a good idea or not.

The phase 2 spell system will be much more flexible, including making it possible to have 1 time use spells, or spells that kill the caster (well... i guess those are 1 time use too).[/quote]

Btw the idea of questing is just too damn cool, are we talking unique promotions here [/QUOTE]

Questing could have multiple rewards, unique promotions is certainly one of them. Unique equipment will probably be more common (imagine Orthus's Axe as a seperate object that can be traded between units).