[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Kael]

The order is a bit more racist, but they are so fanatic that it works for them.

Ive been dealing with the Order for 17 years and thats the best Order quote I have ever seen.

 

[Kael]

Picking is a nice idea if we can code it. I like how you quote yourself.
Also, would certain civs be predisposed towards certain religions?

There may be some synergy's between certain civs and religions but nothing will be hard coded. You will be able to play any civ with any religion. There is an 'elven' civ but you don't have to worship the Fellowship with it if you don't want to.

But I don't think there will be many people playing Bannor (magic resistent, penalty to spells)/Veil combos or Amurite (spell bonus, unit strength penalty)/Order combos.

 

[loki1232]

1. There may be some synergy's between certain civs and religions but nothing will be hard coded. You will be able to play any civ with any religion. There is an 'elven' civ but you don't have to worship the Fellowship with it if you don't want to.

2. But I don't think there will be many people playing Bannor (magic resistent, penalty to spells)/Veil combos or Amurite (spell bonus, unit strength penalty)/Order combos.

1. By code, I meant something more like program. I agree about this point though.

2. Well, once we add the disciple branch spells, it might work to play the order as a defensive magic oriented civ. Anything is possible.

 

[Stalin_Bulldog]

There is a slight audio error, where one religion music overlaps, specifically with fellowship of the leaves, otherwise it seems nearly all the bugs have been worked out

 

[Webrider]

Are you planing on the usual compliment of magical creatures, unicorns, dragons, manticores, minitars, orcs, gobblins, pegasus, griffons?

I suppose finding the graphics for these type units would be the hardest part?

There seem to be elves, dwarves, giants that I have seen so far, how far fantasy are you going to take this mod?

A barbarian city made by dragons and spawning dragons would be cool if you could force it to be razzed if captured, for the added gold of course.

Might be cool to add a dungeon/ruins as a resource like wheat or copper that gives gold/science or +1 or 2 exp to units in a city and is only revealed after a certain type of magic is researched. Might also give - to culture.

As I have mentioned before, great mod keep up the good work.

 

[Kael]

Are you planing on the usual compliment of magical creatures, unicorns, dragons, manticores, minitars, orcs, gobblins, pegasus, griffons?

I suppose finding the graphics for these type units would be the hardest part?

There seem to be elves, dwarves, giants that I have seen so far, how far fantasy are you going to take this mod?

A barbarian city made by dragons and spawning dragons would be cool if you could force it to be razzed if captured, for the added gold of course.

Might be cool to add a dungeon/ruins as a resource like wheat or copper that gives gold/science or +1 or 2 exp to units in a city and is only revealed after a certain type of magic is researched. Might also give - to culture.

As I have mentioned before, great mod keep up the good work.

I don't want to create a cliche fantasy world, so I wouldn't expect to ever see a huge amount of monsters here. The world has ever been dominated by man. Monsters (and even elves and dwarves to some degree) are kept to a smaller role because it makes them that much more special when they are used.

But I definitly want monsters and such in the mod, like you say right now Im limited by the models. I am looking forward to the day when they are included.

To give you an example. In my thinking right now (and according to the design docs) there are dragons in the mod, but they are unique creatures. No civ will be able to mass produce them. That doesn't mean it can't change (Loki is working on a new dragon for the design docs right now that I really like) but thats my thinking at the moment.

 

[TheNewSaint]

Now... I have an idea so powerful and sinister for the veil that it would change the entire balance of play. A TEMPLE OF THE DAMNED!!!

It makes necromancers and wraiths (or just necromancers)

The necromancers cost much for upkeep, but can do some cool things (if necromancer no good try "dark magic lord" or something like that...)
Casts spells not spacific to one sphere:

Contract "(oooo.. its the name from morrowind that is for the vampire disease)" - gives a unit (friendly or not) the "special" diseased promotion. The unit becomes a vampire (or necersomethin) upon death? (hmm... perhaps lvl up, or maybe this is just for the one civ (a religion specific spell)...).

Unrest : gives a unit the unrest promotion (becomes skeleton upon death)

Death Coil : explained in some above post.



You could have an anti necromancer, im not sure what you want yet, for the order.

They have a chance to ressurect a unit upon its death within an area of two tiles.

some crappy power here : ( hmm... crappy...)

Holy Light : Also explained in same post as Death Coil...



Perhaps, if you... oh crap. in order for my idea to work you need one more power for each unit.

You could have a Isandalbi or whatever (the one with the vampire) have a necromancer with one power for the veil religion, say the vampirism one...

Each civ has a specific unit for their "most likely" religion. They can switch to other religions, but they wont have the units.

This could be applied for "Order" leaning civs and "Veil" leaning civs.


The Octopus Overlords.

A special promotion called mind control : upon defeating a unit, there is a one in three chance they will convert the defeated unit to Octopus Overlords.

Oh... and you should have a fish people civ... ... ...

When an octo unit dies... it leaves behind its field of vision for five turns, so you can see where the killing unit goes...

Or :

Coastal tiles produce +2 food +1 gold
Sea +2 food

The "fish people (if you do them)" are pure overlords civs (ive been thinking, and if you do 20 civs, thats four for each religion, so 15 could decide for themself what religion they want, where as the other 5 are always their religion... or not. I never really know if my ideas are worth posting, so please tell me if their not...

It really stinks when you have so many ideas but none of them are good...

 

[TheNewSaint]

Ok, about 12 posts were made while i was writing that, so disregard it, it makes no sense now...

 

[Sashaddin]

Heck, I would just like the Drown to me able to travel through coast tiles but I haven't been able to do that yet either.

Maybe they could "summon" a boat in city tiles? Make the boat Drown-only and have a script to delete the boat when a Drown disembarks.

Great mod! I know you spent close to 15 years on the storyline, but how many hours have you put on the Civ4 project?

 

[Kael]

Now... I have an idea so powerful and sinister for the veil that it would change the entire balance of play. A TEMPLE OF THE DAMNED!!!

It makes necromancers and wraiths (or just necromancers)

The necromancers cost much for upkeep, but can do some cool things (if necromancer no good try "dark magic lord" or something like that...)
Casts spells not spacific to one sphere:

Contract "(oooo.. its the name from morrowind that is for the vampire disease)" - gives a unit (friendly or not) the "special" diseased promotion. The unit becomes a vampire (or necersomethin) upon death? (hmm... perhaps lvl up, or maybe this is just for the one civ (a religion specific spell)...).

Unrest : gives a unit the unrest promotion (becomes skeleton upon death)

Death Coil : explained in some above post.



You could have an anti necromancer, im not sure what you want yet, for the order.

They have a chance to ressurect a unit upon its death within an area of two tiles.

some crappy power here : ( hmm... crappy...)

Holy Light : Also explained in same post as Death Coil...



Perhaps, if you... oh crap. in order for my idea to work you need one more power for each unit.

You could have a Isandalbi or whatever (the one with the vampire) have a necromancer with one power for the veil religion, say the vampirism one...

Each civ has a specific unit for their "most likely" religion. They can switch to other religions, but they wont have the units.

This could be applied for "Order" leaning civs and "Veil" leaning civs.


The Octopus Overlords.

A special promotion called mind control : upon defeating a unit, there is a one in three chance they will convert the defeated unit to Octopus Overlords.

Oh... and you should have a fish people civ... ... ...

When an octo unit dies... it leaves behind its field of vision for five turns, so you can see where the killing unit goes...

Or :

Coastal tiles produce +2 food +1 gold
Sea +2 food

The "fish people (if you do them)" are pure overlords civs (ive been thinking, and if you do 20 civs, thats four for each religion, so 15 could decide for themself what religion they want, where as the other 5 are always their religion... or not. I never really know if my ideas are worth posting, so please tell me if their not...

It really stinks when you have so many ideas but none of them are good...

I like a lot fo these ideas but they are reserved for other places in the mod. Vapirism is reserved for the Calabim civ. It doesn't spread like you mention, instead Vampirism is spread to willing units, or produced in cities by sacrificing population. It gives access to new promotions, as well as boosting some of the normal stats (and making them vulnerable to the anti-undead units).

Lycanthropy (werewolfs) act like you describe, spreading from attackers to defeated units and giving you control of those units.

Im not sure what Im going to do for ressurection yet. Its a dangerous mechanic, even a 10% chance of ressurection of units that are killed in the same tile gets crazy when you stack a bunch in one city. But we will find a way to do it in a balanced fashion.

The Mind control ability already exists with the Inquisitor unit. He has a 50% chance to take control of any unit he defeats in combat which works well. There may be some minor aspects of it given to other units (someone who can take control of demons or such) like the animal handling ability, but I probably won't give the full ability out to anyone but the Inquisitor soon. Its what make that unit cool.

I haven't given the Overlords a water food/production/money bonus because that is reserved for the seafaring civs. Of course once the civs are made it will make sense to pair the seafaring civs that get bonus's for water tiles with the religions (like Overlords) that have access to water spells (once I actually make some water spells). But my thought is that a religion doesn't give you the ability to farm or harvest better, that is an aspect of your civilization.

I like the sight ability. I was working on sentry towers last night and I havent been able to get them to work yet. I would like something like this that allows greater sight (and I love the idea of placing sentry towers along your border to keep an eye on your neighbors) Im just having a hard time with the code that deals with map visibility.

And I really like the Unrest idea. I have this Armageddon spell planned called Knell of Darkness that causes all of the living units in your cultural borders to be raised as a skeletons when they die. But Im having trouble figuring out how to program it. Searching all the cities to see if it is built everytime a unit dies is easy to do, but will cause a lot of CPU util. Well... I know how to do it, I have to use a global variable, I just haven't played with Global variables yet so I have work to do. Your unrest promotion idea is actually an easier way to accomplish a similiar effect.

Don't hold back on the ideas. Even if they aren't used a lot of time they kick up some ideas that make it into the mod in some form or another. Im always open to hear new stuff.

 

[Kael]

Maybe they could "summon" a boat in city tiles? Make the boat Drown-only and have a script to delete the boat when a Drown disembarks.

Great mod! I know you spent close to 15 years on the storyline, but how many hours have you put on the Civ4 project?

I have no idea. I hadn't even heard of Python before Civ4 was released so I had to teach myself Python as part of this (not that im anything other than a beginer at this point) so I spent a lot of time up front trying and failng to do stuff.

Yeah I thought about giving the Drown the ability to switch between a Land unit and a Sea unit. Similiar to your boat idea. The problem, as with most problems, is that the computer won't know how to use it. I don't like to build abilities that only humans can use so I tend to stay away from those solutions. The best option (and as far as I know impossible at this point) is to give it the ability to walk through coast tiles as if they were land so the computer could use the ability as easily as a human.

But the Drown being able to travel through coast tiles is on my to do list before I close phase 1 so if I can't figure out another way to do it I may have to go with your solution. Im just hoping I can find a more "AI friendly" way to do it.

 

[Sashaddin]

Im just hoping I can find a more "AI friendly" way to do it.

Can you code an Airport that only works through coast-based commerce routes and have the Drown teleport through it? Or teleport directly to a coast tile? The AI should be able to calculate an Airport path. Or... can it?

 

[Stidf]

is anyone else having problems viewing any other screen other then the demographics one in the info advisor. I am not sure what it is called but it is the set of screens you access when ever your civ gets to a certain pop size. you get a pop up saying that your civ has grow to x size and now has increased production and what not. You can either say ok carry on or show me more. Choosing the later of the 2 takes you to this screen.

Also Kael where did the idea of the drowned come from? There is something like this in George R.R. Martin's series A Game of Thrones

 

[tndp]

Whoah, this is a long train of comments. Sorry if I'm repeating one.

You need to over-ride the code that generates start locations - for one thing, it greatly over-values sea food, which you have severely nerfed.

In particular, fish are a great deal harder to work in this game than they are in normal play. If most starts can't work fish at all, and if fishing boats are going to require harbors to build, you should compensate by having them not self destruct when building improvements. Even with that fix in place, the post-processing function that balances start locations should never add sea food, it should always add land-based food resources.

Nice work on the mod overall.

 

[Kael]

Whoah, this is a long train of comments. Sorry if I'm repeating one.

You need to over-ride the code that generates start locations - for one thing, it greatly over-values sea food, which you have severely nerfed.

In particular, fish are a great deal harder to work in this game than they are in normal play. If most starts can't work fish at all, and if fishing boats are going to require harbors to build, you should compensate by having them not self destruct when building improvements. Even with that fix in place, the post-processing function that balances start locations should never add sea food, it should always add land-based food resources.

Nice work on the mod overall.

Thats good advice, I'll take a look at it.

 

[Kael]

is anyone else having problems viewing any other screen other then the demographics one in the info advisor. I am not sure what it is called but it is the set of screens you access when ever your civ gets to a certain pop size. you get a pop up saying that your civ has grow to x size and now has increased production and what not. You can either say ok carry on or show me more. Choosing the later of the 2 takes you to this screen.

Also Kael where did the idea of the drowned come from? There is something like this in George R.R. Martin's series A Game of Thrones

Crazyace made a skin over in the skin forum: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=142237

I was looking through the art and played with the model a little bit, trying to find out some use for it. To me it looked like a zombie that had come from underwater. I liked that idea as a unit for the Overlords and the idea that the Overlords would sacrifice their warriors to make them into the Drown came later.

In the end I didn't end up using Crazyace's skin, but he actually inspired the Drown with his odd unit.

As to the graphic problems, make sure you have the Civ4 patch 1.52 applied. Some people have seen some odd screen problems if they are running an older version.

 

[jjsheets]

And I really like the Unrest idea. I have this Armageddon spell planned called Knell of Darkness that causes all of the living units in your cultural borders to be raised as a skeletons when they die. But Im having trouble figuring out how to program it. Searching all the cities to see if it is built everytime a unit dies is easy to do, but will cause a lot of CPU util. Well... I know how to do it, I have to use a global variable, I just haven't played with Global variables yet so I have work to do. Your unrest promotion idea is actually an easier way to accomplish a similiar effect.

Kael, you wouldn't want a global variable for this. Instead use the get and setScriptData functions to store the data, which allows it to remain even between saved games. I suggest you look at Stone-D's toolkit, it provides some AMAZING functions for storing extra data on game objects. Essentially, when the Knell is built, in onBuildingBuilt you check for it, and set a Stone-D variable indicating who owns the Knell.

Then, in onUnitKilled, you check to see if the current owner of the Knell is the same cultural owner of the plot the unit is in. Use unit.plot().calculateCulturalOwner() and compare it to the saved value.

Make sure to predefine the saved value as -1 so that the comparison fails if the Knell is not built.

For global variables like this that are persistent and stay with a saved game, Stone-D's toolkit is without doubt the best current method for storing the data. I may look at python programming and see if it can be made any more efecient, since I think he stores all data on the gc.getGame() object, rather than on individual objects with get and setScriptData functions.

EDIT:

Okay, did a little research...

You can use the python pickle class to convert a pure python table into a string capable of being stored into the script data for any given civ 4 object with getScriptData and setScriptData functions.

create a py file, say, scriptdata.py:

import cPickle as pickle

def sDataSet(object, varname, value):
  try:
    table = pickle.loads(object.getScriptData())
  except:
    table = {}
  table[varname] = value
  object.setScriptData(pickle.dumps(table))

def sDataGet(object, varname):
  try:
    table = pickle.loads(object.getScriptData())
  except:
    table = {}
    object.setScriptData(pickle.dumps(table))
  return table[varname]

Now import that file in anything that'll use per object data. Like This:

import scriptdata
sDataSet = scriptdata.sDataSet
sDataGet = scriptdata.sDataGet

To set who has the Knell use:

sDataSet(gc.getGame(),'KnellOwner',iPlayer)

to get it use:

sDataGet(gc.getGame(),'KnellOwner')

The functions SHOULD automatically prepare an empty variable table when creating a new data store.

EDIT2: Cleaned up the functions in the code above a bit... checking for errors in my personal mod right now...
EDIT3: Fixed an error and showed how to properly import the scriptdata file for easy use...
EDIT4: I wish Firaxis had chosen Lua instead of Python... would've been so much easier... gimme a bit to get this workin perfectly...

 

[jjsheets]

Okay, a little bit of work and I have the following very easy system for storing data in the ScriptData of a unit, city, game, player, or any other civ4 object that has the set/getScriptData functions.

create a py file, scriptdata.py:

import cPickle as pickle

def sDataSet(object, varname, value):
  try:
    table = pickle.loads(object.getScriptData())
  except:
    table = {}
  table[varname] = value
  object.setScriptData(pickle.dumps(table))

def sDataGet(object, varname):
  try:
    table = pickle.loads(object.getScriptData())
  except:
    table = {}
    object.setScriptData(pickle.dumps(table))
    return None
  return table[varname]

Now import that file in anything that'll use per object data. Like This:

import scriptdata
sDataSet = scriptdata.sDataSet
sDataGet = scriptdata.sDataGet

When you use either function, the scriptdata will be properly initialized. This will conflict with any mod that uses the scriptdata for a given object in a different way.

now... when you use the sDataGet function, the system will return the None object if there is no such entry in the script data, so to check for this, do like the following:

value = sDataGet(unit,'someValue')
if (value):
# do something

This works so perfectly that I'm thinking of eliminating my use of Stone-D's system and going with this alone.

 

[King Coltrane]

Kael, i got a religious victory! i think i win a prize dont i? anyway, it was 1.52, and v .70 and i was egypt, noble, great plains, small size, but with 7 civs. i founded kilmorph and spread that like the plague! but i must agree that 80% is too high. i got to 75% (come on now!) and was frustrated with how to get the last 5%. so luckily, the Veil holy city culturally converted to me (along with the sisting chapel, the oracle (built the previous turn) and altar of the Luonnotar) and so i raized it and built a new city in place to weed out the Veil... but then i was only at 77%! so finally i inquisited (word?) the hell out of all my lovely allies and got to 91%! so that was how i won. it was good game: lots of peace, betrayels, inquisitions, quick wars, etc. after i won i kept going to see what else would happen and of course, the damn avatar did not spawn, nor was there that sound, though i did see the little tag indicating the wonder had been built. also, there was no mithril in the entire world. just things im sure youll fix for .8 but i thought id bring em up anyway. and just as a little bit of info... i had defense pacts with all other 4 remaining civs at the end, all were kilmorph, and all were friendly with no less then a net of +10 and the highest was +16... so yeah, good game and good mod!

 

[Sareln]

Dude, if there is no prize King, we 'ought to make one for you - seriously, 80% is really tough to hit.

Oh, and I get to head back to school now, so if I'm to stay sane and in "Good Academic Standing" as they call it I'm probably going to have to drastically cut the amount of time I spend civving. It, however, won't be stopping the Flow of Ideas.

note - just out of curiosity, is the "evolving civics" idea even possible?

ideas -

I can't recall at the moment, do you have "Cathedral" level religious buildings for your religions yet? If you don't yet I have suggestions for their various effects:

Cathedral of the Order (The Order) - Happiness boost (normal for Cathedrals), Culture Boost (another 50%? or is that too much?), EXP Boost for Crusaders, Disciples, Priests (+4? or something more sedate?)
note - if drafting becomes central to the order, is there a way to have each cathedral raise the draft cap by 1? or is that waaay too strong?

Arcane Convergence (The Ashen Veil) - Another Commerce Boost (+20%?), Culture Boost, EXP Boost for Demons (+4?)


BIG NOTE: Another way to increase the power level of the Order and Ashen Veil is to only have Cathedrals for them, however, in the interest of fairness:

Connection to the Depths (Octopus Overlords) - I dunno really what to do with these guys... is it possible to increase thier spread rate with the building? Other than that, maybe happy and health bonuses from sea resources (veneration of the depths and all that) maybe make the bonus really strong for whales? (Depths and all that, I dunno really though.)

Altar of Stone (Runes of KilmorphI so can't spell that) - Straight GOLD Boost (+50%? or is that just rediculous? maybe 20%), Culture Boost (+4 pts), Normal Happiness Boost for Cathedrals

Peaceful Grove (Fellowship of Leaves) - Normal Happiness Boost for Cathedrals, Culture Boost, Further Health Boost (+3, like a hospital?)

Also, it would be cool if you could make these enablers for either cool national/religious wonders, or just requirements for the world wonders (Like making the altar of Lunnotar require a cathedral in city to build and 2 others in existance not necessarily yours - would also ensure that only an order civ builds it most likely - though I'm not sure if the Lunnotar altar is aligned with the order, I would assume so from what it does.)