[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Kael]

Rregarding the air elemental, when can the conjurer produce it?

The conjurer can never produce it. The conjurer can only produce Fire Elementals. The Elementalist (upgraded conjurer) will be able to summon Air, Earth, Fire and Water elementals but he isn't in the game yet (and he isn't in 0.80 either).

The holdup right now is that Im not very happy with the Air or Water elemental models. Once I can get those down I will add the Elementalist.

 

[Kael]

I should say, after dropping a ton of story elements into this thread that although there is a very deep story designed for this mod it still has to take backseat behind:

1. Interesting Decisions (The Sid mandate and what Civ is all about). As much as I love Final Fantasy this will not be a Final Fantasy type story that forces players down a preset script of actions. Specific scenerios can be designed, but the open game won't limit many options (and then only for flavor/balance issues).

2. It will be fun. What Soren really did for Civ4, the attempt to remove anything from the game that isn't fun to do.

I think a decent story can add a lot to the game, and a unique design can make this mod seem like a new experience. One of the mandates for this mod is that it not play like Civ4. Civ4 an awesome game but people get bored with it like anything. I want to offer those people something new to try. I think a story goes a long way toward doing that but if I have to pick between adding in a story element from my design doc, and making something less fun, I'll choose fun every time.

 

[Stalin_Bulldog]

maybe if you gave drown amphibious it would increase AI's willingness to do water born attacks, since they are supposed to move in coast, amph seems pretty logical

 

[edu2003mdq]

The conjurer can never produce it. The conjurer can only produce Fire Elementals. The Elementalist (upgraded conjurer) will be able to summon Air, Earth, Fire and Water elementals but he isn't in the game yet (and he isn't in 0.80 either).

The holdup right now is that Im not very happy with the Air or Water elemental models. Once I can get those down I will add the Elementalist.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[edu2003mdq]

I think a decent story can add a lot to the game, and a unique design can make this mod seem like a new experience. One of the mandates for this mod is that it not play like Civ4. Civ4 an awesome game but people get bored with it like anything. I want to offer those people something new to try. I think a story goes a long way toward doing that but if I have to pick between adding in a story element from my design doc, and making something less fun, I'll choose fun every time.

You're completely right. I agree with your position on this. What got me engaged with this MOD was that it is much more fun, more rich and with the added back storyline it becomes a wonderful world in which to play. Awesome, I'd say. Since I started playing FfH I can't play vanilla Civ4 anymore...

 

[mamimo]

I have a problem - the AIs fireballs don't faid... they keep on untill I kill them, pretty impressive & powerfull.... I guess it shouldn't be the case because my spells vanishes usually after 1 turn.

 

[Kael]

I have a problem - the AIs fireballs don't faid... they keep on untill I kill them, pretty impressive & powerfull.... I guess it shouldn't be the case because my spells vanishes usually after 1 turn.

Darn cheating computer. There is a situation that will cause summoned units to stay forever for both players and the computer if it falls right (the cleanup check ignores the 0 index so anything in the 0 index is safe). That problem is fixed in 0.80 and should be pretty rare in 0.70. I will check and see if I can reporduce what your seeing with 0.80.

 

[Corlindale]

The holdup right now is that Im not very happy with the Air or Water elemental models.

Technically, an Air Elemental is the only unit one could justify NOT having a model for...

 

[loki1232]

1. Interesting Decisions (The Sid mandate and what Civ is all about). As much as I love Final Fantasy this will not be a Final Fantasy type story that forces players down a preset script of actions. Specific scenerios can be designed, but the open game won't limit many options (and then only for flavor/balance issues).

I agree with not limiting things too much.
IE: every religion/civ should get the same units in these types:
melee, archer, horse, recon, siege.
However, I think that the magic/ fanatic units should be restricted.
What I mean by this is that the flavor units that make a religion "what it is" should be restricted.

If you really plan to include all 20 religions (which I would love) I think that we would need to rethink the founding of the religions.
What if the angels randomly came and asked you to convert to their religion, not necesarrily based on researching a certain tech?

 

[loki1232]

Technically, an Air Elemental is the only unit one could justify NOT having a model for...

Cheater! But in a way you're right.

 

[loki1232]

1.You know, the order is fairly militant right? I'm going to go out on a limb and say what if drafting for the order didn't create unhappiness? After all, you're asking them to go on a rightious crusade for you that they also believe in, not to go fight a war that makes no sense to them.

2.The order should be able to create a highly motivated, and very dangerous army backed by priests in short order. But how to balance something like that?

1.Exactly. Less war weariness as well perhaps?
Maybe the order cities should get production bonuses for military units like the Runes cities get commerce bonuses?

2.Now that we are in Civ IV, the balanceing is easy. What if sometimes their angels forced them to go on quests, and if they declined then they would get huge disadvantages because they had forited their divine authority.

 

[loki1232]

Okay. With the Veil they seem to not care about population. However, this makes it hard for them to build their cool units, like demons. What if they had some random events where demons would help them in return for plenty of vistims fromt he enemy cities. However, he he didn't get his fill, then at the end of the quest he might become a barb.
Things like that really explain how the Ashen Veil sacrifices innocents for research and "contracts" with powerful demons.

 

[Kael]

I agree with not limiting things too much.
IE: every religion/civ should get the same units in these types:
melee, archer, horse, recon, siege.
However, I think that the magic/ fanatic units should be restricted.
What I mean by this is that the flavor units that make a religion "what it is" should be restricted.

If you really plan to include all 20 religions (which I would love) I think that we would need to rethink the founding of the religions.
What if the angels randomly came and asked you to convert to their religion, not necesarrily based on researching a certain tech?

I was gonna have a tech give you a random religon (from a small set). So a "good" tech may give one of 3 good religions. So the actual religions you play with in the open game would change from game to game. It seemed like it would add a little variety to the game and make things interesting.

The random religon wouldn't be completly open, I dont want to end up getting all good religions in a game. I would want to make sure there were a few good, neutral and evil religions in each game.

So a given game may have 2 good, 2 evil, and 2 neutral religions with some game options for more or less religions (and a "religious war" option that excludes the neutral religions, everyone is good or evil).

And I definitly agree that some religion specific stuff will always stay with that religion.

 

[loki1232]

It seems like we have all the current religions except Octopus Overlords figured out.

Fellowship:
Strengths:
Spreads quickly.
Civic allows huge populations.
Bonuses from forests (and ancient forsets once we get those)
Recon Units get nature sphere spells.
Gets Elf units that work well in forests.
(I really think that they should also start with woodsman I)
Friends with all.

Weaknesses:
No really powerful special units.
Vulnerable to Fires (once they exist)
Less scienctifc research perhaps?

Runes:
Strengths:
Commerce bonuses.
Civic allows powerful ecomy and military.
Mines give more gold.
Gets Dwarf units for hills.
(I really think they should also start with guerrilla I)
Allies with the order.
Can sacrifce dwarves for production.

Weaknesses:
Can't use evil units.
Less food means smaller cities?

Order:
Strengths:
Drafting without losing happiness.
Less War Wearinesss.
Disciple units can use Law Sphere spells.
Friends with other good civs.
Free crusaders when converting new cities.

Weaknesses:
Can't use evil units.
Few economice bonuses.
Obligatory quests given by angels?

Veil:
Strengths:
Lots of research and gold.
Gets events where they can make deals with demons for free units.
Disciple units get Death Sphere spells.

Weaknesses:
Low population in cities because they don't care about their people. (maybe have civic allow sacrificing of population?)
Hated by all.
Sometimes betrayed by the demons they summon or make contracts with.

Overlords:
This is where all of you guys come in with your great ideas.

 

[loki1232]

I was gonna have a tech give you a random religon (from a small set). So a "good" tech may give one of 3 good religions. So the actual religions you play with in the open game would change from game to game. It seemed like it would add a little variety to the game and make things interesting.

Oh this give me quite an idea.
What if the first religion tech to be reasearch was either:
Good angels, bad angels, or neutral angels. Then, you would randomly found one of the religions in that type.
This idea would require lotsa thought, and maybe there would be more divisions of religions, but what do you think?

 

[BlakTooth]

Overlords:
This is where all of you guys come in with your great ideas.

Overlords:
Strengths:

Gets the Slavery Civic (which, according to Kael, will allow them a chance to take command of defeated enemy units) SICK!

Mind Stapling allows Overlords to control population unhappiness.

Has the earliest access to demonic units.

Sea dominance.

Friends with all evil religions

Would probably get use of a Mind Control/Psychic Sphere

Weaknesses:

Can't use Good units.

No real economy boost (no extra research/units/commerce/religion spread).

 

[loki1232]

Mind Stapling:
What exactly does this do for them?
In my opinion it should be as powerful as dwarven mining or that elf thing.

What if it made the water squares more productive?

 

[Kael]

I was gonna have a tech give you a random religon (from a small set). So a "good" tech may give one of 3 good religions. So the actual religions you play with in the open game would change from game to game. It seemed like it would add a little variety to the game and make things interesting.

The random religon wouldn't be completly open, I dont want to end up getting all good religions in a game. I would want to make sure there were a few good, neutral and evil religions in each game.

So a given game may have 2 good, 2 evil, and 2 neutral religions with some game options for more or less religions (and a "religious war" option that excludes the neutral religions, everyone is good or evil).

And I definitly agree that some religion specific stuff will always stay with that religion.

Maybe have human players pick the religion they want from those available and the computer gets a random one if it gets it first.

 

[loki1232]

Maybe have human players pick the religion they want from those available and the computer gets a random one if it gets it first.

Picking is a nice idea if we can code it. I like how you quote yourself.
Also, would certain civs be predisposed towards certain religions?

 

[loki1232]

I am another one of the magic players on this thread. I agree that the order is similar to the Boros. However, the huge distinction is that the order is all human. The boros are (in magic terms) red-white which means they have golbins and dwarves in addition to humans.

The order is a bit more racist, but they are so fanatic that it works for them.