[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[loki1232]

It takes 3 techs and a building to get from the Warrior to Archer. Less if you have some of the starting techs. I don't have much room in there to squeeze in another unit.

I think Im going to try adding flavor the archery range. Try to get different leader types to prefer different unit buildings. So an expansive leader may prefer archery ranges and archers while a military leader prefers barracks and axeman. May make thing a little more interesting.

I like the idea of me prefering a diff. type of unit than my rivals, but I think it would work better if the preference was based on religion.

I'm building the requirements list for 0.70 now. Looking through all of my wants for Phase 1, prioritizing, trying to determine how long it will take, etc. Part of the reason the spread rate is so high is I'm going to mess with the religion spread code.

For example, as designed it is impossible for the Ashen Veil and the Order to exist in the same city. If they do spread to the same city the city goes into revolt and afterwards only one remains (most liekly the one with the highest popuation in that city). This both conteracts spread and gives you a new reason you have to kill neighbors of opposite religions.

I was thinking about the religion good-evil chart from earlier.
Order-Runes-Fellowship-Overlords-Veil
What if the religion conflicts were caused if there were two religions that were 3 or more steps away from each other. Basically, Order would conflict with Overlords and Veil. Veil would conflict with Runes and Veil, and Fellowship wouldn't conflict with anything.

Once two conflicting religion, ie: Order and Overlords were both in a city, it would go into revolt and eventually one religion would triumph. However, the winner wouldn't necesarily be one of the two conflicting. It could be any in the city.
Then, it would act as an inquisition and clear out all other religions, and the builldings.
In our example, say the order won, all other religions would be vanquished from the city, including Fellowship and Runes if they had been there.

Also, If you have a city with both of the evil religions, and the order spreads there, then both of those religions "fight" against the order, and if they win, neither one is purged by the other.

In fact, after these conflicts, i think that half of the poplation that previously belonged to losing religions would be killed.

However, these fun religion conflict scenario's have just one problem.
Say I am the order, and all of my cities are order as well. Then I found the ashen veil, and one of my cities becomes the veil Holy city. If the order wins the conflict, is there no longer a veil holy city?
My solution is to have the holy city automatically win any religious conflict, and after this scenario i would have to deal with the problem of having a non-stop veil city.

 

[loki1232]

On a totally different topic, I notice the readme hasn't been updated.

Also, I can't play this until I get back from my Grandfather's house, so can anyone post screenies of the new spells?

 

[Kael]

I was thinking about the religion good-evil chart from earlier.
Order-Runes-Fellowship-Overlords-Veil
What if the religion conflicts were caused if there were two religions that were 3 or more steps away from each other. Basically, Order would conflict with Overlords and Veil. Veil would conflict with Runes and Veil, and Fellowship wouldn't conflict with anything.

Once two conflicting religion, ie: Order and Overlords were both in a city, it would go into revolt and eventually one religion would triumph. However, the winner wouldn't necesarily be one of the two conflicting. It could be any in the city.
Then, it would act as an inquisition and clear out all other religions, and the builldings.
In our example, say the order won, all other religions would be vanquished from the city, including Fellowship and Runes if they had been there.

Also, If you have a city with both of the evil religions, and the order spreads there, then both of those religions "fight" against the order, and if they win, neither one is purged by the other.

In fact, after these conflicts, i think that half of the poplation that previously belonged to losing religions would be killed.

However, these fun religion conflict scenario's have just one problem.
Say I am the order, and all of my cities are order as well. Then I found the ashen veil, and one of my cities becomes the veil Holy city. If the order wins the conflict, is there no longer a veil holy city?
My solution is to have the holy city automatically win any religious conflict, and after this scenario i would have to deal with the problem of having a non-stop veil city.

Yeah, I like your "3 steps" idea. I don't know about killing population, I'm already worried that a "disciple revolt" strategy may be to effective. Besides I picture it more as a new group of convert come into the city, they will either be kicked out or convert the current people, not really people killing each other in the streets.

And yes, a Holy City religion will never lose the conflict, just like it can never be removed with Purge the Unfaithful and Inquisitions now.

ps thanks for the props in your sig!

 

[Haarbal]

for the people who are interrested, my first civ is working (elves, with 1 leader yet) and a dwarven civ for woodelf, so the others are coming soon, somewhere after Xmas . i predict i'll be finished by thursday (maybe earlier, maybe later, i'll drop a message here)
when i'm finished i'll open a thread with the civs, in the new civ tab which will

haarbal

 

[loki1232]

No killing in the streets?
Too bad.

On a more serious note, if a have a shrine in a holy city, and then there is an inquisition, does it get removed?
i think it does

*edit*

Happy Holidays everyone!

 

[Kael]

On a totally different topic, I notice the readme hasn't been updated.

Also, I can't play this until I get back from my Grandfather's house, so can anyone post screenies of the new spells?

Here is a picture of the druid and his root spell (to the left). And the Archmage and his 3 meteors. They are very animated and look better in action than they do in a screen shot. The Meteors roll over the ground leaving little flame trails behind them. The Root spell is a flying yellow/green aura.

 

[loki1232]

Thanks for the pic.

You might want to consider adding promotions that make units more resistant to spells.

 

[Kael]

No killing in the streets?
Too bad.

On a more serious note, if a have a shrine in a holy city, and then there is an inquisition, does it get removed?
i think it does

*edit*

Happy Holidays everyone!

Yes, all non-state religious buildings are destroyied.

 

[Kael]

Thanks for the pic.

You might want to consider adding promotions that make units more resistant to spells.

Yeah, Im thinking about it. Fireballs and Meteor Swarms are "adept" class types, so bonus's against them help protect against the spells. So Paladins are better against attack spells than other units of their same power.

But yeah, I would like to add a promotion that makes the unit much less likely to be entangled and effected by other spells. Right now their aren't many spells to be resstent to, but I do want to continue adding and at some point it will be a nice promotion to have (not that I haven't added a nearly useless Giant Slaying promotion).

 

[woodelf]

Alright, now that I'll stomped on Washignton's cities with Fire Elementals a couple of more questions....

What determines how long they last? I've had some 4 turns, some 3, but the majority simply 1 turn.

Does the AI use them? I've seen them take out my conjurers on the borders, but have yet to see one cast against me.

Very cool

 

[woodelf]

for the people who are interrested, my first civ is working (elves, with 1 leader yet) and a dwarven civ for woodelf, so the others are coming soon, somewhere after Xmas . i predict i'll be finished by thursday (maybe earlier, maybe later, i'll drop a message here)
when i'm finished i'll open a thread with the civs, in the new civ tab which will

haarbal

Do they still work with 1.52 and v0.6?

 

[Kael]

Alright, now that I'll stomped on Washignton's cities with Fire Elementals a couple of more questions....

What determines how long they last? I've had some 4 turns, some 3, but the majority simply 1 turn.

Does the AI use them? I've seen them take out my conjurers on the borders, but have yet to see one cast against me.

Very cool

There is a bug Joliette mentioned back on 0.50 that is sometimes keeping summoned creatured from getting cleaned up. It is still around.

No, the computer won't know how to cast spells until 0.70. It hard to adjust the Ai without the SDK but I have a change in now so that they summon and cast fireballs. Demons aren't nearly as cool when they are storming your cities as they were doing mine this morning.

 

[mamimo]

Kael,
I am playing 0.60 on MARATHON, it's great!
There is time for everything.
You rock!

 

[loki1232]

But yeah, I would like to add a promotion that makes the unit much less likely to be entangled and effected by other spells. Right now their aren't many spells to be resstent to, but I do want to continue adding and at some point it will be a nice promotion to have (not that I haven't added a nearly useless Giant Slaying promotion).

Yeah, what is Giant Slaying good for?
What giants are there?

Also, would you consider making it so some specialists are only available to certain religions.

 

[Kael]

Yeah, what is Giant Slaying good for?
What giants are there?

Also, would you consider making it so some specialists are only available to certain religions.

The Hill Giants are the only giants. They are found in the hills and the desert and are spawned like animals. They don't tend to enter cultural borders so they are pretty rare to see, just like the skeletons that wander the tundra.

 

[loki1232]

Oh yeah. I've noticed those only in the early game. What if you gave scouts a free giant slaying promotion to make them able to explore without dying?
Even so, they seem to die from anything better than a lion. Maybe you should make the animal killing promotion even more powerful?
Just thinking about the MoM mod, having religion specific resources might make things more interesting and cause wars.

 

[Kael]

I like the idea of me prefering a diff. type of unit than my rivals, but I think it would work better if the preference was based on religion.

Not everything can be about the religion.

A lot of these decisions are made before the country discovers a religion. Also I want their to be more strategies than justt eh religion ones. It should be viable to run a few different flavors of military styles as well as a mage based country. And I would like to be able to tune different leaders to go for these strategies.

 

[Kael]

Oh yeah. I've noticed those only in the early game. What if you gave scouts a free giant slaying promotion to make them able to explore without dying?
Even so, they seem to die from anything better than a lion. Maybe you should make the animal killing promotion even more powerful?
Just thinking about the MoM mod, having religion specific resources might make things more interesting and cause wars.

Im hoping to fill out the spells enough to eventually be able to support different schools of magic. At that point I will create magic school based resources with some synergy with the religions. Nature magic will work well with the Fellowship, Earth with the Runes, etc etc.

 

[Black Whole]

I have to say it again: Great work, Kael!

The meteor swarm looks like the fireball spell. Maybe you can colour the ball slightly brown so that you can see the meteor.

Merry Christmas to you all!

 

[Kael]

Oh yeah. I've noticed those only in the early game. What if you gave scouts a free giant slaying promotion to make them able to explore without dying?
Even so, they seem to die from anything better than a lion. Maybe you should make the animal killing promotion even more powerful?
Just thinking about the MoM mod, having religion specific resources might make things more interesting and cause wars.

I want the early game wilderness to be dangerous, for a long time I used to joke that a scout never actually makes it home. There is a lot of rewards to be had from "adventuring", the risk needs to be comparable.

The giants only have a move of 1, so they actually aren't much of a threat. They are there to force risk/reward decisions about going into certain territory. Be there nothing in the area the giant is wandering or a goody hut, it forces the player to consider if he should try to stab in and take a look or leave the giant alone.