[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Kael]

The meteor swarm looks like the fireball spell. Maybe you can colour the ball slightly brown so that you can see the meteor.

What! This is what I get for hiring gnome labor!

*goes off to beat model artists*

 

[loki1232]

Im hoping to fill out the spells enough to eventually be able to support different schools of magic. At that point I will create magic school based resources with some synergy with the religions. Nature magic will work well with the Fellowship, Earth with the Runes, etc etc.

And Death will be veil, Water will be Overlords, and "Holy" will be order?
I can imagine lots of fun spell falling under those categories.

Death:
Plauge, Undermine, Sicken, etc

Water:
Tsunami, Typhoon, Flood, etc

Holy:
Purge, Illuminate, Restore, etc

Also, what if as spellcasters gained levels, they could get promotions that let them cast new (and cooler) spells.

Not everything can be about the religion.

A lot of these decisions are made before the country discovers a religion. Also I want their to be more strategies than justt eh religion ones. It should be viable to run a few different flavors of military styles as well as a mage based country. And I would like to be able to tune different leaders to go for these strategies.

Yeah, sometimes i take the religion diffs. too far.

 

[loki1232]

I want the early game wilderness to be dangerous, for a long time I used to joke that a scout never actually makes it home. There is a lot of rewards to be had from "adventuring", the risk needs to be comparable.

The giants only have a move of 1, so they actually aren't much of a threat. They are there to force risk/reward decisions about going into certain territory. Be there nothing in the area the giant is wandering or a goody hut, it forces the player to consider if he should try to stab in and take a look or leave the giant alone.

Okay I agree. However, I find that often I'll fight the Giant, lose some units, and then find a goody hut that just gives a map. Better goody huts would be much appreciated.

Also, what if one of the starting units was an "Adventurer". It would be great against the barb and animal units, and get even better goody hut results. If you only had one and couldn't build any more it wouldn't be too powerful, and would make early exploring more fun.

Maybe it could upgrade, or it could just become obsolete eventually.

 

[Kael]

And Death will be veil, Water will be Overlords, and "Holy" will be order?
I can imagine lots of fun spell falling under those categories.

Death:
Plauge, Undermine, Sicken, etc

Water:
Tsunami, Typhoon, Flood, etc

Holy:
Purge, Illuminate, Restore, etc

Also, what if as spellcasters gained levels, they could get promotions that let them cast new (and cooler) spells.



Yeah, sometimes i take the religion diffs. too far.

You are correct ont he Overlords and the Veil. The Order is actually defined to be the 'Law' sphere. The only difference between that and Holy is that there isn't a moral aspect of the magic sphere. So you could for example play the Order as a very lawful, and very cruel empire.

Yes, the spellcasters leveling up in the spell schools and gaining access to new spells based on the schools and rank in the schools is planned. (and the fact that a mage with 4 ranks of Fire magic would do more dmg with his fireball with a mage with 2 ranks in Fire).

 

[loki1232]

Yes, the spellcasters leveling up in the spell schools and gaining access to new spells based on the schools and rank in the schools is planned. (and the fact that a mage with 4 ranks of Fire magic would do more dmg with his fireball with a mage with 2 ranks in Fire).

I like this. Its very RPG.

1.For the order i agree about the moral thing, but think that it should be more "religious law" than normal law.

2.With the mages, what if there were eventually five different ones, one for each type. Then there could also be diff. Types of magical improvements, such as academies. There could never be two magic academies of different types in the same city. These academies would give XP bonuses to mages of their type built in that city.
Also, what if mages can be sacrifieced to build academies of their types in cities?

3.Also, are there any barbarians in the seas?
Sea Serpents might add something fun, and maybe barb privateers later on.
Then you could add a unit that was the sea equivalent of a scout.

4.BrainWave:
What if prophets had the early ability to convert barbs it fought in battle. This would definitely cause me to use them more than i do now.

5.It seems that hawks can't be carried onto ships, so when i go fight across the sea i rarely can use hawks, and as a result my recon units are significantly less useful.
Also, the hawk anim seems to be a fighter plane. um

6.I know that the apocalypse spells aren't coming for a while, but what if there was one which gave all units the immortality promotion, but didn't let any new units be built. This would be incredibly useful if prepared for properly, and could result in some very fun wars.
(oh no not you again!)

 

[Black Whole]

And Death will be veil, Water will be Overlords, and "Holy" will be order?
I can imagine lots of fun spell falling under those categories.

Death:
Plauge, Undermine, Sicken, etc

Water:
Tsunami, Typhoon, Flood, etc

Holy:
Purge, Illuminate, Restore, etc

Also, what if as spellcasters gained levels, they could get promotions that let them cast new (and cooler) spells.

And what about air and fire mages? They could be trained by more religions.

Air mages could be trained by fellowship(=nature) and overlords(=water).

Fire mages could be trained by order(=holy) and runes(=earth).

I'm thinking about the veil.
(I like the winds and I would be very grateful for the air mages. )

 

[loki1232]

I would instead make it so that air and fire are the basic spells and any religion can use them.
I'm not sure they fit with any of the religions, but they do allow some cool spells.

 

[Black Whole]

I would instead make it so that air and fire are the basic spells and any religion can use them.
I'm not sure they fit with any of the religions, but they do allow some cool spells.

This is also a solution...

 

[loki1232]

This is also a solution...

I just feel that all the religions should be balanced in their spells, and the civ's without religion should still be able to use spells. Also, a civ using the free religion civic would get no spells. No on would ever use that civic unless they could still use some spells.
I'm suggesting the air and fire spells for that role because they don't really fit with any of the religions.

 

[mike2005]

I have to say that this is the best Mod I have seen yet. I like all of the differant civic choices. Can never have to many of them

I just downloaded the new patch and am currently downloading the .6 mod now.

 

[Stalin_Bulldog]

A small bug i found, for some reason, i could upgrade apprentices to adepts without the necesary reagents

 

[Kael]

A small bug i found, for some reason, i could upgrade apprentices to adepts without the necesary reagents

Adepts don't need reagents. Mages are the first step that needs reagents.

 

[Webrider]

Great mod thanks for the hard work.

seems there should be something to be done with plains/grasslands that are not next to rivers besides cottages, if you dont have alot of rivers your kind of screwed.

Wonder if there is a way to give races a starting tech they cant trade no matter what? If so you could have race specific techs (religions/magics/units)

Guess I could read the 14 pages of this thread to see if this has been mentioned already if it has my bad

Keep up the great work, hell of alot more fun then plain civ IV.

 

[Stalin_Bulldog]

Ahem sorry bout that one :}

 

[Kael]

And what about air and fire mages? They could be trained by more religions.

Air mages could be trained by fellowship(=nature) and overlords(=water).

Fire mages could be trained by order(=holy) and runes(=earth).

I'm thinking about the veil.
(I like the winds and I would be very grateful for the air mages. )

The spell schools will be unrelated to the religions. They are the magic side of the game while the religions are in the disciple branch. That said there will be some synergy between some of the spell branches and some of the religions. So in effect it will be like loki1232 suggested, with some branches open to everyone.

According to the design doc there are 21 spheres of magic (attached). These spheres have 3 ranks each and different units will have access to different spheres. Mages will have access to the most, but priests will have access to some depending on their religion, and even some melee units will be able to spend promotions to pick up a sphere or 2 (Dwarven Soldiers can learn Earth, Rangers can learn Nature, Demons can learn Fire, Entropy and Death, etc).

 

[Kael]

Great mod thanks for the hard work.

seems there should be something to be done with plains/grasslands that are not next to rivers besides cottages, if you dont have alot of rivers your kind of screwed.

Wonder if there is a way to give races a starting tech they cant trade no matter what? If so you could have race specific techs (religions/magics/units)

Guess I could read the 14 pages of this thread to see if this has been mentioned already if it has my bad

Keep up the great work, hell of alot more fun then plain civ IV.

Religion specific civics and techs are planned. Just as you say they wouldn't be tradeable (and would be lost if you switched religions). I won't be making new Civ's/Leader's until phase 2, when I do they will include other races and new tech lines.

 

[Kael]

It goes without saying that I will never actually reach the point of filling in all the 21 spell spheres, but I didn't let anything realistic like that stop me when I wrote the design doc. I just wrote the game I wanted to play and ignored any technical or time limitations.

 

[Sisonpyh]

The Magic system looks extremely interesting, yet ambitious. Are you able to code the A.I. so they will be able to make use of the variety of spells? I assume we have to wait for SDK for this even to be possible.

 

[Kael]

The Magic system looks extremely interesting, yet ambitious. Are you able to code the A.I. so they will be able to make use of the variety of spells? I assume we have to wait for SDK for this even to be possible.

Yeah, the SDK will definitly be needed. I just go the computer to start casting entangle, fireballs, meteor swarm and all the summons correctly tday. The AI still doesn't cure disease or bless.

The point of the design doc isn't to be realistic, but to set the ideal. What really happens is usually some compromise on that. You can't design while building because you become limited by what is already established. It also helps when I get down into the details and have to make specific implmentation decisions to keep the overall design concept in mind.

If you notice from the spell sphere design chart that each sphere except for Metamagic has a sphere on the opposite side of metamagic that opposes it. So Life is opposed by Death, Water by Fire, Creation by Entropy. This was done to have an inherent system in place for countering other spheres. So for example the Life Sphere could contain a spell which makes the caster immune to Death Magic for a few turns, etc etc.

Also the 21 spheres were the origional basis for the Armageddon spells. Blood of the Phoenix (makes all your units Immortal once) was origionally the Life wonder. Genesis is the Creation Wonder. There is a new Wonder called "Primodial Fury" that turns 25% of all players units into Barbarian controlled units coming in 0.70 that is the Chaos wonder.

So the spheres may never make an appearance int he game, but they add some consistency and structure to the game world and design decisions they effect.

 

[jerrygildner]

I would so love to play this Mod But i can not for the life of me figure out how to get it work. Iv spent hours trying to find a way to get it to work.

I load the Mod Fine and i can see the Opening screen with the new art and music. But when i slect Play Now or Custom game the Civ's are nowhere to be found.

Is there anyway you could put up a save file or something I just don't have enough understanding of the XML files to create the civ's or get them to work.

Just in looking through the Civilzation.xml i don't see them listed only at the bottom under barbarian I just don't understanmd and a so flustrated iv spent so much time trying to get this to work. I REALLY wanted to give this mod a try on my couple days off.

"iv read through every page of this Post and found acouple guys with similar problems but noone posted a solution" Maybe posting us a save file of some sort?