[MOD] Fall from Heaven

loki1232 said:
i really like this idea. However, I think that the civics should affect these heros and vice versa. IE: the kind of "rulers" you get is somewhat determined by your civics. There will always be random cases, but generally you get rulers more connected to your type of government. For example, this could be how we balance out republc, since some were complaining it was too good. With republic, you would very rarely get military rulers, and only in "times of need" (rubber band effect maybe). Whereas, monarchies would always have a king, some heirs, and ther guards. Maybe hereditary rule would get more heirs, and aristocracy would give you one ruler per city. God King on the other hand would get just one very powerful king, and his guards. Confederacy would be predisposed to military style rulers.

So, at first you'd have chieftain of sorts (with like 1 or 2 strength) and then he'd be overthrown (by the new goverment) and the new leader (which would probably have no combat abilities) would be born in the capital... Like heroes abandon you if you switch religion...
 
Kael said:
There will be new leader traits in Phase 2, there are 20 planned right now. But I do want to have them fairly balanced for 1.0 too.

I looked at all the traits for 0.90, the only one I boosted was Organized. I gave them a nice building that only civ's with Organized traits can build (its a Command Post that give +20% military productivity, +2 xp, and +1 great person growth for great commanders).

The other traits didn't seem that weak to me. What do you think?

Agg is dead to me now... Org/Phi or Agg/Org. Phi will be nice to beat the other civs with Org to the first commander :). Oh and is there a way to get the 0.9 beta?
 
Kael said:
There will be new leader traits in Phase 2, there are 20 planned right now. But I do want to have them fairly balanced for 1.0 too.

I looked at all the traits for 0.90, the only one I boosted was Organized. I gave them a nice building that only civ's with Organized traits can build (its a Command Post that give +20% military productivity, +2 xp, and +1 great person growth for great commanders).

The other traits didn't seem that weak to me. What do you think?

We have to take into consideration different things when valuing traits. What bonuses do they offer, how effective it is in your mod and what buildings are mad cheaper by them. Here goes:

Aggresive - A free promotion, which is simply great, although here units reach such high levels that it rarely makes any difference. Building twice stables and Training Yard is fine, but to make it really useful you have to have horses. There's an interesting way to use it - warriors get the promotion but you can upgrade them to Archers. I'd suggest making Archery Range cheaper insted of Stables and switching 'Combat I' into a new 'Trained' promotion which would work similarly but wouldn't be accessible otherwise (so only some of the units of aggresive civs would have it). You could add archery units to the list of the free promoted ones 'cause it's easy enough to build a warrior and then upgrade him.

Creative - +2 culture in every city and cheaper obelisks. Woah, man! Since your mod relies on multiplying culture than adding it this is pure power. No one stands a chance when it comes to land grabbing and since the obelisks are made cheaper you can produce even more culture easier than others. Wonders and Great Artist (as citizens) seem to give far to much culture as well, but then, anyone can make them. +1 culture would be enough to give creative guys an edge. Maybe cathedrals can be made cheaper for them as well (they are of impressive architecure most of the time, after all).

Expansive - +2 health in each city, half cost of granary and harbour. Useful (especially on higher levels of gameplay), not overpowered. Add smokehouse so people who start near domestic animals would get some bonus as well. If you think that three buildings are to much, remove harbour.

Financial - +1 commerce on tiles which give at least 2 and cheaper monkey (;)) changer and market. I'm always amused by the fact how powerful this can be when played by the right person. Fear of Orthus generally slowed down my early expansion in 0.8, but still, the money (and science) making potential is incredible. I'd made tax office cheaper instead of market, 'cause when you have Runes in your city you make so much money (with 100% science) that you have all your units upgraded and can pay for buildings every other turn.

Industrious - I have no idea what is so powerful about it. Sure, you build wonders a bit faster, but forge comes pretty late in the game. I would say it's balanced. If you chose this trait than you simply need to build wonders not to be handicapped. You won't get them all, most obviously, but these which you will get have to make up for your lack of other abilities. Leave it as it is, or make Machinists Shop cheaper for them.

Organized - -50% civic upkeep, double production of lighthouse and courthouse. This one doesn't do much at the begging of the game but later on you save over 100 gold per turn just because you have. Lighthouses are important to build one of the most important wonders on maps with water - The Great Lighthouse. These guys usually get it. Courthouses come a bit late when compered to vanilla civ though. The building you mentioned seems fine, but +20% military production is too much. +10% maybe, but +2 exp in this case is a lot in itself. And it should require 3 barracks in your cities to let you build one. Then it would be just fine, I think.

Philosophical - +50% GP birth rate, cheaper elder councils and libraries. This one seems weak. I don't think I've played philosophical in your mod just because it gives so little. Increase GP rate to +66% (so they would produce 5 per specialist when others produce 3). It would be a worthwile then.

Spiritual - No anarchy, healers get free mobility promotion and double production of temples. To compare, I change civcs 7-10 times during a game when I'm not spiritual. About every five turns when I'm spiritual. It's ridiculously worth having and I have no idea why my disciples/priest/crusaders/monks/other stuff, should be faster just beacuse I'm spiritual. When playing as an order it's far to easy to have a strong, very mobile army consisting of healers only. You should take this free promotion away.




Among other things, I believe that wonders and great artists as citizens give too much culture. You could either make some building give steady amount of culture or make those things give it less. And OO are the only ones who can't build warriors later in the game 'cause they have access to all three upgrades and game renders them obsolete. That's why I'd suggest giving the free aggressive promotion to archery type units as well...
I'll probably take a closer look at some of the wonder soon.

Cheers :)
 
I've been playing the mod for a decent bit and everything's ok and running good. I love the way you changed the colors to make it look more intense. It does appear darker, the colors that is and give you the feel that this world mod is a darker place than the "oh-everything-looks-pretty" vanilla civ.

Anyway, aside that, I saw that I could build SDI :D That's really weird. Maybe one of the civs turn reagents into nuclear heads and blast me to oblivion with it (yes, I built it for the fun of it).

And after the tech discovery for Runes of Kilmorph, I could stop myself from going into bouts of laughter hearing Sting's Desert Rose :lol:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's all good. Just that... see, in my teenage years, I was a dancer for a club and did a performance to that song with my troupe. So yes, when I heard that song, I could just see those drawves, dancing around a fire, with the wrist, hand and hip swaying movements :lol:

Thanks for the great Mod though. Had fun playing it. Waiting for your next versions.
 
Oh Oh! Please do release 0.9 on 27th January. That would be a great birthday present for me :D
 
Yep, Orthus attacked me very early with only one extra warrior-unit. He fell down to his knees and gave me his Axe before I even got worried. It´s pretty fun atm, because the unit which killed him promoted from warrior to bowman and is now a heavy crossbow which is nearly better than the heroes, except for Bambur of course, he´s a real crusher in my game.
The idea is great, perhaps he should show up and then prepare an attack in about 20 turns. Or he could primarily go for looting modernizations and becomes stronger by doing so.
 
Nice mod here .. just tried it alitle but found a problem in the early game.

*edit* opened my eyes and noticed you did meantion my problem ;)

A text in the Arete civic to show the Runes of Kilmorph religion is a req is missing ;)

Anyways keep up the good work!
 
Traxer2 said:
Nice mod here .. just tried it alitle but found a problem in the early game.

Got the dwarven studies tech and it says i was going to be able to choose the "Arete" civic , but i can not choose it. There is no red text but the small icon dont show up and not possible to just click... I allready had the elven studies (and fellowship of leaves religion) if that matters.

Hope it hasnt been reported (92 pages is alot to read ;) ), anyways keep up the good work!
The answer to your question is right there in the first post. You can't adopt Arete unless Runes of Kilmorph are your state religion.
 
It's not a bug. If fellowship of leaves is your state religion you can't use Arete. It's not enough to research Dwarven Studies and found Runes of Kilmorph, you also have to make it your state religion, if you want to use Arete.
 
svalovec said:
small flavour issue that has been bugging me.

Religions have different names for their functionaries and the different ranks thereof, ie. priest, rabbi, sheik, etc. it would be fitting that the dift religions in FfH had distinct titles. they can be anything you want, just not all 'high priest, priest, disciple.'

This is a good idea, I put it on my list. If I can come up with some good names for them I will switch it.
 
Sisonpyh said:
I like this.

You plan on changing industrious? I think it's a bit overpowered (imbalanced) early on, maybe make it more like finacial or something?

Right now industrious sits exactly where it was in the vanilla game, although other traits have been boosted. I didn't have any plans to change it, although wonders do play a larger part in the FFH than they do in vanilla civ so the production increase may need to be reduced.
 
Zuul said:
Highway - Better Roads (replace rail)
Magic Wind - Roads on coast, buildable by boats
Ancient Steed - Better horses resource to get better units


Add from mods:
More resourses from Green Mod - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144428
Salt, Potatoes, Coffe, Pearls, Lemon, Cotton, Ancient Temple.

12Monkeys Plot List Enhancement - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=149572
Bhuric CulturalDecay
Bhuric RealFort
Bhuric TechConquest

I will check them out, version 1.0 is where I will merge in other mods although it will probably be a short list (for everyone who likes a mod there seems to be someone who doesnt like it).
 
Kael said:
Right now industrious sits exactly where it was in the vanilla game, although other traits have been boosted. I didn't have any plans to change it, although wonders do play a larger part in the FFH than they do in vanilla civ so the production increase may need to be reduced.

I disagree. Sometimes industrious can be overpowered, but other times it does almot nothing. With dwarves its great, but OO its useless.
 
Deathling said:
Agg is dead to me now... Org/Phi or Agg/Org. Phi will be nice to beat the other civs with Org to the first commander :). Oh and is there a way to get the 0.9 beta?

No, I have enough bugs in the final version I release. The playtest is much much worse. You wouldn't enjoy it.
 
Deathling said:
So, at first you'd have chieftain of sorts (with like 1 or 2 strength) and then he'd be overthrown (by the new goverment) and the new leader (which would probably have no combat abilities) would be born in the capital... Like heroes abandon you if you switch religion...

Exactly. However I think that when you change gov, your old leader might become a barb, since he didn' like the change. Also, the next leaders might be military oriented, just less commonly than the "cheiftan"
 
Kardyn said:
I've been playing the mod for a decent bit and everything's ok and running good. I love the way you changed the colors to make it look more intense. It does appear darker, the colors that is and give you the feel that this world mod is a darker place than the "oh-everything-looks-pretty" vanilla civ.

Anyway, aside that, I saw that I could build SDI :D That's really weird. Maybe one of the civs turn reagents into nuclear heads and blast me to oblivion with it (yes, I built it for the fun of it).

And after the tech discovery for Runes of Kilmorph, I could stop myself from going into bouts of laughter hearing Sting's Desert Rose :lol:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's all good. Just that... see, in my teenage years, I was a dancer for a club and did a performance to that song with my troupe. So yes, when I heard that song, I could just see those drawves, dancing around a fire, with the wrist, hand and hip swaying movements :lol:

Thanks for the great Mod though. Had fun playing it. Waiting for your next versions.

SDI is in because the game needs a project, and I get errors if I pull it out. The tech requirement on it is the Never tech, which is disabled. So the only way to build SDI should be to use the Worldbuilder to give yourself the Never tech. Did you get it through another means?
 
Tesla23 said:
Yep, Orthus attacked me very early with only one extra warrior-unit. He fell down to his knees and gave me his Axe before I even got worried. It´s pretty fun atm, because the unit which killed him promoted from warrior to bowman and is now a heavy crossbow which is nearly better than the heroes, except for Bambur of course, he´s a real crusher in my game.
The idea is great, perhaps he should show up and then prepare an attack in about 20 turns. Or he could primarily go for looting modernizations and becomes stronger by doing so.

Orthus is a little stronger in 0.90. But I like the fact that his relative power depends on how long he has been around. In some games he will be a powerhouse, I saw him wipe one of my rivals in a game last night. And in some games he will drop in a bad place and die within the first few turns.

Sometimes Orthus doesn't pop at all. Although I think the "best" Orthus experience does involve meeting him when he is leveled up and a powerhouse, I like the variety.
 
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