[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[loki1232]

1. Conquest xp will be increased from +1 to +2.

2. Instead of the happiness bonus from buildings from scholorship, what if I have all of the specialist scientists give +1 Research?

3. I will go with 75% Great Person growth rate for Pacifism.

4. I might see if I can get Theocracy to give a production bonus to disciples (maybe demons too for the veil) and a minor production penalty to other unit types. Let me see what I can do.

I am still on the fence with Free Religion, I know it needs to be changed, I just can't find the right thing to change it too. "Modify Free Religion civic" is on the change list for 1.0 I just gotta figure out what to do.

1. Maybe conquest also gets +50% gold when capturing a city?
(it is an economic system after all)

2. What if all specialists get +1 reasearch instead?

3. Sounds good

4. I like the disciple thing.

5. Plz what about mercantilism? I really think that they need a trader route bonus instead of a gold bonus.

Maybe free religion could be changed to "religious tolerance". In it you still get to keep your state religion, but get bonuses per non-state in your cities. Also a culture and research bonus.

 

[loki1232]

Its part of the recon design that there is no promotion against them. But I may lower the ranger strength.

No way! Right now recon units are perfect. Since there is no promotion against them, the way to kill them is overwhelming force. Exactly what it should be.

 

[Jono]

Reagents, why do you vex me so! I dont want to add the wonder because I want to force players to have to go out and trade or fight for it on some maps. But that assumes that it is there to trade or fight for! I will work on it.

Same goes for wine. I usually only have 1 or 2 on the map, which makes breweries nearly useless... Once T3 and T4 dwarves come out they should be ok

 

[Lightzy]

eh, apprenticeship, right. didn't even notice

btw I just reread what I wrote and I inadverdantly came out a bit aggressive.
when I say 'when making civics you should etc etc etc' I mean a general 'you', not like, you kael.

You're a genius man, I wouldn't presume to tell you what you should do
only come up with little tidbits that may or may not be relevant.

 

[woodelf]

No way! Right now recon units are perfect. Since there is no promotion against them, the way to kill them is overwhelming force. Exactly what it should be.

Same here! Leave those Rangers alone. Since I never find iron I end up using Rangers against Macemen, lots of Rangers...

 

[Corlindale]

Having Free Religion should restrict you from the major benefits of each individual religion, such as heroes, as it does currently. The tradeoff should be that it would allow you to benefit in smaller ways from all your religions. It should be a bit like having a multi-class character in D&D - He can do lots of different stuff, but he can't do it as well as the pure characters.
I don't know how exactly this should be implemented.

Perhaps you could have religious "synergies" in the civics. They should only be useable with Free Religion, but should otherwise be dependant on which religions you have present in your cities. For example, you could have a Veil + Overlord civic, which could only be used if both religions were quite dominant in your empire. Don't know what it should be like, but it probably wouldn't be very pleasant to live under...

I like the current civics, especially the truly game-altering ones like Aristocracy. I'd like to see more civics of that kind. Perhaps a civic which significantly boosts output of ocean squares while penalizing land squares.

 

[Chalid]

Same here! Leave those Rangers alone. Since I never find iron I end up using Rangers against Macemen, lots of Rangers...

Now i had it the otehr way round. I highly promoted Axemen and Archers and those Rangers beat me 1 to 1. Lowering strenght wouldn do it in my opinion as the fights are quite fair if both are unpromoted but with each promotion the ranger gets tougher for melee and archery units.

Therefor my idea to give the other units a promotion against rangers that is quite small and connected to other promotions. Im not asking for something like these +40% just 10% would do the trick i think.

Oh and one more thing... this Maros guy, as a dwarf he should not be able to defend better in a flatland city (+150%) then in a hill city (+75%). Generally you might want to weaken that defensiv promotion. My unpromoted shieldwall killed 8 or 9 tier 3 units (level 3-4) before finally diing. (Calculated strenght in the open about 32 or so)

 

[woodelf]

Now i had it the otehr way round. I highly promoted Axemen and Archers and those Rangers beat me 1 to 1. Lowering strenght wouldn do it in my opinion as the fights are quite fair if both are unpromoted but with each promotion the ranger gets tougher for melee and archery units.

Therefor my idea to give the other units a promotion against rangers that is quite small and connected to other promotions. Im not asking for something like these +40% just 10% would do the trick i think.

Yeah, but axemen and archers are T1, whereas a Ranger is T2. He should handily beat them. The axemen and archers can whoop up on Hunters as they should. Macemen and Crossbowmen are a more comparable battle with Rangers. Although I agree that +10/20% promotions wouldn't be a bad thing, other than having one more set of promotions to fret over.

 

[Chalid]

Axemen are T2, Warriors are T1 . But thats not the point. I thought about these guys with one wolf and strenght 3. Might be i meant Hunters .

 

[woodelf]

Axemen are T2, Warriors are T1 . But thats not the point. I thought about these guys with one wolf and strenght 3. Might be i meant Hunters .

Damn, that's what I get for posting at work! Yeah, I think you meant Hunters and I meant T2 and T3.

 

[BlakTooth]

Another thing about civics:

City-States always seemed weak to me. Even with the maintenance decrease, i seem to be losing more money with it on than the other way around. The other governmental civics blow it out of the water (even despotism, imho).

Also, Loki, I like your religious tolerance idea. Allows you to keep religious units, but still have an incentive to spread around minor religions. Plus, being tolerant gives that feel-good feeling that everybody likes . Perhaps the tolerance civic would need to be restricted to non-evil civs/religions?

And a gold boost to conquest sounds great too! Perhaps not 50%, but getting extra gold for conquering in the early game would be huge for an early expansive civ (to counter crushing maintenance costs). It'll help the AI too (who loves to switch to conquest even if he's not being particularly agressive).

 

[Ranbir]

Well, it seems blue marble and civ scaling doesn't effect vanilla multiplayer. So it's quite a query why there is a problem on FoH...

Anyone else have multiplayer troubles, or is it all smooth sailing?

 

[BlakTooth]

Damn, that's what I get for posting at work! Yeah, I think you meant Hunters and I meant T2 and T3.

So, recon units aren't affected by the Shock promotion?

Hmmmm

That should be changed (for the melee recons ie Hunter, Ranger). Assassins can stay as they are; they're supposed to kick melee's ass.

 

[Jono]

Can you make units invisible on certain terrain? Like you could make elves invisible in forests and assassiinate everyone who goes through w/o combat...

Edit: on second thought, you might want to make it some elven hero... or equipment so I could get on Bambur cause runes are so much better ^^

 

[drwulf88]

I only play this mod multi. player and usually it runs whatout a problem. The only time it screws up is when a slave is created after a battle. When that happens an out of sync message pops up and whoever is the player that created the slave must stay in the game and the others have to reconnect to him. If the player that created the slave reconnects to someone else then the slave is gone when they come back. Other than that is runs great, and if nobody has the slave civic on then the game runs complete through without a problem.

 

[Chalid]

So, recon units aren't affected by the Shock promotion?

Hmmmm

That should be changed (for the melee recons ie Hunter, Ranger). Assassins can stay as they are; they're supposed to kick melee's ass.

Thats the problem i was facing. Hunters can promote on Shock, Cover and Formation. But none can promote against them. This means they can only be fought on equal terms by other recon-class units. It might be inteded but then recon class units should at least get a Promotion agaist others of their type...

An other trick that would do it is to give hunters and rangers an 20% disatvantage for city attacks or even better give +20 additional defence agaist them with walls.

 

[BlakTooth]

Thats the problem i was facing. Hunters can promote on Shock, Cover and Formation. But none can promote against them. This means they can only be fought on equal terms by other recon-class units. It might be inteded but then recon class units should at least get a Promotion agaist others of their type...

An other trick that would do it is to give hunters and rangers an 20% disatvantage for city attacks or even better give +20 additional defence agaist them with walls.

Negative city attack bonuses sounds like an excellent solution. The precedent for this would already be there in the assassin (altho the negative city attack for hunters/rangers probably shouldn't be as steep as the assassin's).

 

[Jono]

Problem is that you don't only fight in cities... I've had way too many battles in the fields hills and forests... And some recon units have an escape to mountains...

 

[drwulf88]

First off, Kael. LOVE THE MOD! simple brings a whole new level of excitement to an already great game. I can't wait to see what you do for each version. I have all my friends hooked on it. They don't play Civ without your mod anymore.

Now for my question. I am having multiplayer problems. My friends and I always like playing LAN games together and we always did and could. We had a host and the others connected to him in the LAN lobby like always. However when we load the MOD we can't see his game in the LAN lobby at all. We can connect via DirectIP but when we did that we had OOS issues like crazy. We turned off all firewalls and virus protection and have Civ 4 in our exclusion list. But not sure why that would matter if we can see the game in normal Civ 4 but not the MOD. Now one of my friends could see the host and I couldn't now we both can't see the host. We do have a router for our cable modem but since we're behind it on a hub that shouldn't matter, because we see each other normally. We can share files and all that but just can't see each other in the LAN Lobby during a MOD.

Does anyone know what could be causing this problem to occur and have any advice for me? It would be most appreciated!

Thanks so much!

My friend had the same problem, and when we open his FFH file and compaired it to mine they weren't the same. He had some extra files that I didn't ( I think from the unzipping process ).If I remember right the files he erased were empty folders directly inside the FFH file. After we had made our files exactly the same we could see eachother. It sucks and can take some time, but it worked. I do think that just reinstalling the mod the exact same way on each computer would work too.

 

[cordas]

I have the wrong Unit AI's assigned, they are set for city attack and collateral, but I have since removed those abilities. I will switch them to Reserve AI and see if the computer uses them better. If that doesn't work I will make them defensive like you suggest.

Regarding Mages - I would hesitate to make them defensive, as this would make it far harder to get them more xp. (Well unless I am cheating by having my mages kill stuff so they can cast more spells per turn)

Another thing regarding XP would it be possible to boost the amount of XP gained by killing Giants, in the early game they are extremely difficult (expensive) to kill yet only garner a couple of XP, I would make them 5 or 6 xp.