[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Ploeperpengel]

I wasn't able to reproduce this. I tried a Lighthouse, Great Lighthouse and the Sentry Towers and all of the them stayed through a save and reload.

Hm, Maybe some files in my FFH Folder are rotten then, cause it doesn't happen with other Mods. I'll wait for Version 1.0 and give you a message if something like that occurs again.

Also you will probably get a better responce to these question by posting them in the main creation and Custimization forum.

Funny until you mentioned that I didn't even notice there are more threads below the Utilityprograms.
Thanks to you I hopefully will get some help there now.

 

[driftinj]

Extremely minor but Grongar (?) the Minotaur is under the impression that he's an Orc or at least it seems that way on the diplo screen when he says "The Orcs thank you"

 

[}{ELL/\/()]

pretty sweet

 

[Kael]

Extremely minor but Grongar (?) the Minotaur is under the impression that he's an Orc or at least it seems that way on the diplo screen when he says "The Orcs thank you"

He gets hit on the head a lot. I'll have a talk with him.

 

[Yakk]

"City States" has two discriptions in the game.
When you learn survival, you are told "city states: -80% distance maintenance, -50% gold, -20% culture".
In the civic selector, it says -25% gold and -10% culture.

*27. Coloseum gets +1 Happy with Tiger Pen, Wolf Cage, Lion Pen or Panther Pen. (recommended by Lunargent)
*12. Captured Lion, Wolf, Tiger and Panther need a Carnival before they can build pens in a city. (reported by Webrider)

Might I suggest that the pens can be built regardless.
Change them to just +3 culture.
Then, have both coloseum and carnival give +1 happiness for each pen in the city.

Tech comment:
Militia: This gives the city garrison upgrade... but the only units that can gain city garrison require archery, which requires militia?

Could Archery be set to "warfare or militia" instead of "warfare and militia"?

No, because of promotions.
an axeman (not to mention maceman) with the shock II promotion can kill as many warriors as you can build, while a warrior with shock II promotion is only slightly stronger than a normal warrior.

Axeman with shock I and II: +125% vs melee. 9 strength.
Warrior with shock I and II: +100% vs melee. 4 strength.

From
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137615
but note that damage done is not changed by your lower HP now (I believe your chance to hit does go down).

Undamaged R = 2.25
This gives:
Axe damage = 25
Warrior damage = 13

So on top of the higher chance of winning the round, the warrior also does half as much damage. That would explain why swarms of warriors are ineffective. =)

I wonder what the rate of unit power growth in Civ is like. (A unit is 4 times more powerful than another if it can beat, on average, 4 of that unit in the same round)

Edit: Bah, combat doesn't work like this, not quite. The attackers "vs unit type" are subtracted from the defender's bonus's.

So Shock I+II Axeman attacking Shock I+II Warrior Fortified in City is +0% on axeman (4.0), and +25% on warrior (2.25), giving an R-value of 1.78.

And Shock I+II Warrior attacking Shock I+II Axeman is +25% axeman (5.0) and +0% warrior (2.0) for an R-value of 2.5.

 

[Kael]

"City States" has two discriptions in the game.
When you learn survival, you are told "city states: -80% distance maintenance, -50% gold, -20% culture".
In the civic selector, it says -25% gold and -10% culture.

Cool, I got this fixed.

Might I suggest that the pens can be built regardless.
Change them to just +3 culture.
Then, have both coloseum and carnival give +1 happiness for each pen in the city.

Bears are allowed to be, but its a bit tougher to catch a bear than the other types. In general the captured animals are to good to be able to be added directly to any city. Besides, outsdie of a carnival like event I cant see that a wolf pen would do much for a city.

Tech comment:
Militia: This gives the city garrison upgrade... but the only units that can gain city garrison require archery, which requires militia?

Could Archery be set to "warfare or militia" instead of "warfare and militia"?

I dont want to change this in 1.0, but I agree some work needs to be done here (and just with the tech tree in general). Lunargent is heading up the the tech tree, and I think it will be better in 2.0.

 

[Yakk]

I remember reading a discussion about catapults, and how you didn't like them but you didn't want them to act like mages?

Ever thought about giving catapults a huge retreat chance? (like, 95%)

What about:
1 strength catapults. 50% base retreat chance. Damages 1 unit with collateral damage. Reduces city defences by 10%/turn.
Promotions:
Range I: +10% retreat chance
Range II: +10% retreat chance, +100% city defence
Range III: +10% retreat chance, +100% collateral damage
Barrage I: +300% collateral damage
Barrage II: +300% collateral damage, +10% retreat chance
Barrage III: +300% collateral damage, +100% city defence
Accuracy I: +10% defence damage
Accuracy II: +10% defence damage
Ammo I: +10% heal/turn
Ammo II: +10% heal/turn, +5% city defence damage
Ammo III: +10% heal/turn, +100% collateral damage
Seige I: +200% city defence
Seige II: +200% city defence
Seige III: +200% city defence

The large numbers are based off the low baseline.

Max modifiers:
+700% city defence (strength 7)
+30% heal/turn (can fire every 3 turns)
+1000% collateral damage (strength 11 collateral damage)
+25% city defences/turn (total 35% damage)
+40% retreat chance (total 90% chance)

Catapult II then gets:
2 collateral damage targets
55% base retreat chance (max 95% chance)
20% city defence damage (max 45% damage)
1 strength

Catapult III (cannon):
2 strength
60% base retreat chance (max 100% chance)
30% base defence damage (max 55% damage
3 collateral damage targets
+200% city defence

Have buildings that give lots of bonus XP to catapults, so they can be "customized" for the player or NPC's use. Unfortunetally, a retreating unit gains only 1 XP per combat, and these catapults will pretty much only be retreating (unless you build seige catapults for defence).

 

[MHKnights]

One thing I ran into last night was that all the jungle in my cultural borders suddenly changed into forest and all deserts became plains. I had a couple Elven archers planting forests but I wasn't expecting this. Is this some bonus I was not aware of?

I still have the save file if anyone wants to look at it.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

did you build genesis wonder? it upgrades all your terrain like that. Freaked me out when I first saw it!

 

[Furin]

did you build genesis wonder? it upgrades all your terrain like that. Freaked me out when I first saw it!

Correct. The Genesis wonder description does only say "+1 health in all cities" but actually it upgrades all tiles in your cultural borders 1 step to grassland (and pops some sweet forests in all the rush cut wastes). Combine that with a druid and you get some phat grassland floodlands.

I love Genesis!

Makes me think of an opposite druid unit, a veil or demoniac unit who can modify terrain in enemy country but the opposite way a druid does (1 step to desert in 3 turns). You could lay waste to the enemy lands, poison their wells, slaughter their cattle and burn their grannies bwahaahaha...

Sorry got carried away...

 

[Zuul]

I remember reading a discussion about catapults, and how you didn't like them but you didn't want them to act like mages?

Ever thought about giving catapults a huge retreat chance? (like, 95%)

What about:
1 strength catapults. 50% base retreat chance. Damages 1 unit with collateral damage. Reduces city defences by 10%/turn.
Promotions....

Or with SDK better bombard functions for siege.

 

[Furin]

Sorry to post so soon again but i just had an idea. How about giving druids,rangers and beastmasters the ability to bait animals. Basically it would work like planting a forest, the unit performs an action which lasts a couple of turns (3-5), as result they have a chance (maybe 15%) to receive a captured animal unit based on the terrain the ability was used in (I like the way tigers spawn in jungles and lions everywhere). Perhaps remote border regions would provide better results as if you would try that right next to your capital.

And second, how about a dolphin basin for costal cities, special work boats could try to capture dolphins, sharks or whatever, they even could provide +1 health for all the people that want to stroke and swim with them (I was in sea world a couple of years ago, the sheer horror for the environmentally sane mind, but still its enjoyable for many) And shark basins could provide 1 happiness because everyone would either be happy or be fed to the sharks (edit) <--- perhaps exclusively for seafearing civs? In Multiplayer everyone would want a seafearing friend who gifts a dolphin once in a while, politics with animals, just like in China.

 

[Fr8Train]

Makes me think of an opposite druid unit, a veil or demoniac unit who can modify terrain in enemy country but the opposite way a druid does (1 step to desert in 3 turns). You could lay waste to the enemy lands, poison their wells, slaughter their cattle and burn their grannies bwahaahaha...

Sorry got carried away...

I like the idea of a "anti-druid"...but it wouldn't be very useful. Pillaging the land would almost always be more effective. But it got me thinking. What if there was a unit that automatically lays waste to the enemy land as it moves through it. Kind of like the last boss in Warcraft 3 that left a trail of darkness (if you've played that).
That would be pretty sweet I think. I think it should be a hero unit though - otherwise it would be overpowered.

 

[Furin]

I like the idea of a "anti-druid"...but it wouldn't be very useful. Pillaging the land would almost always be more effective. But it got me thinking. What if there was a unit that automatically lays waste to the enemy land as it moves through it. Kind of like the last boss in Warcraft 3 that left a trail of darkness (if you've played that).
That would be pretty sweet I think. I think it should be a hero unit though - otherwise it would be overpowered.

I even played WCI , damn i got old. Anyhow if its automatically and instantly only a hero would do but if it would take some time a normal unit would not be too overpowered in my opinion. Just another motivation to leave the well fortified cities and attack the invader, mount up they are burning the grannies again!

And downgradeing the land vs. pillageing is pretty evil, just think of a nice grassland river spot that is turned slowly into tundra or worse. Recovering from an "ecological" war would take forever, even longer if you have no druids to "heal" mother nature. On the other hand it slows down an enemy advance as they must stop and protect the downgradeing units. Speaking of WC, bonewagons who spread the plague anyone .

 

[Kael]

I remember reading a discussion about catapults, and how you didn't like them but you didn't want them to act like mages?

Ever thought about giving catapults a huge retreat chance? (like, 95%)

What about:
1 strength catapults. 50% base retreat chance. Damages 1 unit with collateral damage. Reduces city defences by 10%/turn.
Promotions:
Range I: +10% retreat chance
Range II: +10% retreat chance, +100% city defence
Range III: +10% retreat chance, +100% collateral damage
Barrage I: +300% collateral damage
Barrage II: +300% collateral damage, +10% retreat chance
Barrage III: +300% collateral damage, +100% city defence
Accuracy I: +10% defence damage
Accuracy II: +10% defence damage
Ammo I: +10% heal/turn
Ammo II: +10% heal/turn, +5% city defence damage
Ammo III: +10% heal/turn, +100% collateral damage
Seige I: +200% city defence
Seige II: +200% city defence
Seige III: +200% city defence

The large numbers are based off the low baseline.

Max modifiers:
+700% city defence (strength 7)
+30% heal/turn (can fire every 3 turns)
+1000% collateral damage (strength 11 collateral damage)
+25% city defences/turn (total 35% damage)
+40% retreat chance (total 90% chance)

Catapult II then gets:
2 collateral damage targets
55% base retreat chance (max 95% chance)
20% city defence damage (max 45% damage)
1 strength

Catapult III (cannon):
2 strength
60% base retreat chance (max 100% chance)
30% base defence damage (max 55% damage
3 collateral damage targets
+200% city defence

Have buildings that give lots of bonus XP to catapults, so they can be "customized" for the player or NPC's use. Unfortunetally, a retreating unit gains only 1 XP per combat, and these catapults will pretty much only be retreating (unless you build seige catapults for defence).

My issue with this in general is that I agree with Firaxis's decision that Siege units aren't very useful against units. Given a high withdrawal chnace they would be. Catapults should be used against cities and SOD's.

Right now Im thinking about a 1 tile range attack with a significant miss chance against each unit in that tile. So for example a catapult could have a 10% chance of doing some damage to each unit in the tile. Upgrades would increase the hit chance or increase the damage.

What do you think?

 

[Kael]

Correct. The Genesis wonder description does only say "+1 health in all cities" but actually it upgrades all tiles in your cultural borders 1 step to grassland (and pops some sweet forests in all the rush cut wastes). Combine that with a druid and you get some phat grassland floodlands.

I love Genesis!

Makes me think of an opposite druid unit, a veil or demoniac unit who can modify terrain in enemy country but the opposite way a druid does (1 step to desert in 3 turns). You could lay waste to the enemy lands, poison their wells, slaughter their cattle and burn their grannies bwahaahaha...

Sorry got carried away...

The Defiler is spec'ed to be able to curse terrain. He was dropped out of Phase 1 because the AI didn't know how to use him.

Lunargent has been entering design requests for a Doombringer unit that converts lands it travels across to hell terrain. If so it probably won't be player controlled but some reaction to the Armageddon spells. But who knows, it could be cool.

 

[Zuul]

My issue with this in general is that I agree with Firaxis's decision that Siege units aren't very useful against units. Given a high withdrawal chnace they would be. Catapults should be used against cities and SOD's.

Right now Im thinking about a 1 tile range attack with a significant miss chance against each unit in that tile. So for example a catapult could have a 10% chance of doing some damage to each unit in the tile. Upgrades would increase the hit chance or increase the damage.

What do you think?

Sounds good as long as you can get xp from bombard.

 

[kevjm]

Or have lots of exp giving buildings like Yakk suggested.

 

[Kael]

Sounds good as long as you can get xp from bombard.

Its shouldnt be to hard to give the catapult an xp everytime he makes a hit. Or a chance to get an xp, whatever works out to be fair.

 

[Chip56]

I alway liked the way bomboard works in alpha centauri.
2 tiles range, can bomboard units down to 10% in flat terain or down to 50% in forts or cities and it prevents healing of units in that tile (so a unit that has only 20% hp left in a city wont get more damage but it wouldn't heal either).