[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

[Anaztazioch]

No conveting to Warlords.

Civ 4 patch first ! Please stop tormenting us whith waiting !

lol

Once you end Civ 4 patch you shall have more time to convert TR to Warlords and for some usless stuff like "real life"... like whats so real in "real life" ?

 

[Yavrim]

Hi Houman,

Forgot to mention in my last post regarding your links; in particular loose change doc. Fantastic watching! Really good material for the 'conspiracy theorist' in me! Have posted the link to all my friends as essential watching, and met with positive comments from all. I have heard some of what was mentioned in that doc before but not to the extent and detail as was presented. Really gets your blood boiling thinking about all the crap our governments/media feed us.

Anyways, regarding the changing of the Phalanx and Kopis warrior issue. Decided to do a little reading into the Kopis, and it turns out that it was early iron age weapon, with all variants made of iron. Apparently started appearing in Hoplite unit armament around about 500bc. This would make it a perfect fit for swordsman I think, rather than hyapist replacement.

There you go, problem solved

 

[Achaemenid]

I just Give this mode a try ,at first i was stunned, why hordes of barbarians attack incessantly? six of my 12 civilization was destroyed in Ancient Area by Barbarians !!!

 

[Anaztazioch]

what dificulty did u play?
This game is ballanced for Noble, Monarch and Prince.
Put the dif. next time u post such things, or simply use search as there are many such reports here

 

[Houman]

@Ankenaton

Through the centuries until the 90es American Government has systematically flamed the Indians as Barbarians and Uncivilized. Even in the 50s Movies when John Wayne - the good white guy - was shooting at the evil Indians everyone cheered up. It was until recently when the general education grew and a conscience about what really happened started forming. Kevin Costner changed through his Movie "Dancing with Wolves" the real face of Indians with even real Indian actors. Even though he didn't have enough guts to marry an Indian girl in the movie but it happened to be a white orphan in the village (racism in Hollywood). Nonetheless the movie was a eye opener and his following 500 Nations Series that came out as Multimedia CDs opened the publics eye a bit that Indians were not Savages but it was the White man who was the one who invaded a foreign country, killed and massacred the people who lived there, took their land by force (aehm remind me of Palestine by the way), made contracts with them and broke them as soon as rich minerals were found in Indian reservoirs (e.g. Black Mountain), put the Indian children until 1940s (Indians in America and Aborigines in Australia) in concentration camps where they were not allowed to speak their own language, were beaten, raped, unfertilized and were thought by force English - to break their will to rebel, after what happened with Sitting Bull. Now someone has to ask himself, who were the savages the Indians or the White people? When I was in Lacrosse (a city with famous Indian history in Wisconsin) I could see their traces at every corner. I also had visited the river when the tribe was massacred on their boots on the river inclusive woman and children. Even though I am not Indian the whole Atmosphere made me very depressed. My American friends weren't that moved as I was. I even mentioned it to them how they feel about what their "free" and "democratic" government had done to those people. I think 'void' is the best word how I can describe their feelings.

Funny that Americans often 'forget' this bloody past but show with ten fingers at Nazi Germany and their Holocaust. But their own Holocaust what they did to the Indians is always forgotten. At least Germans feel sorry nowadays and have payed a sum to the Nazi slaves, what kind of compensation has USA given to the Indians? Sometimes I ask myself what if Columbus never made it to America....Millions of humans in America wouldn't have lost their lives and great civilizations such as Aztecs and Incans were now part of our world.

@Yavrim
Thank you for your kind words. I am glad you see it this way too.

Regarding the Kopis warrior, you are right, I don't remember the Greeks have a UU for Swordsman, so this would be one possibility. One reason I had hesitated taking Kopis warriors as Swordsman is that Kopis was mostly used as a side arm by the Greeks like Akinakes (Persian Short sword) was used as a Side arm by the Persian Immortals. It was the Phalanx that was mainly used to crush the enemy. Since Swordsman comes after Axeman and has a higher combat rate, it might then imply that Kopis warriors were superior to Phalanx. As we know today only one type of Footmen was a match for Phalanx and that were the Roman Legionaries. Ok in Game the Roman Legionaries still would beat a Swordsman...maybe we should just compromise and let this detail pass...

@Achaemenid
Do not play under Noble since the AI gets weaker vs Barbarians at easier levels. Play at least Noble. And do not get nervous when the Chinese Barbarian Archers are running between their cities (often from East through Persia to the west). Let them go, they won’t attack your city. Keep going and you would find some very interesting aspects about The Persians as well. Like the real Immortal or Zoroastrians etc...

Have fun,
Houman

 

[Vertico]

I installed this mod and played.
Unfortunetly I found the problem with railroad tech.
When I discover it - it always kicks me up to windows.
I tried several times with the same result.
What could be the problem?

I wanted to attach save file but it's too heavy to put it on forum.

edit: during the game my cities suffered twice terrorist acts. What units were responsible for that? I couldn't find any to do the same to my enemies

 

[Los Tirano]

"put the Indian children until 1940s (Indians in America and Aborigines in Australia) in concentration camps where they were not allowed to speak their own language, were beaten, raped, unfertilized and were thought by force English - to break their will to rebel,"

Hey Houman, i have to object to some of what you say, because it is non-factial in light of evidence and biased. Ignoring the American event, in Australia, we did not have a Custer, or a genocide. Legal, official documents have shown (but it has not been widely publicised) that the government, in numerous cases reigned in settlers and specifically forbid them from killing aborigines. When you get through the crap, the myths, the association with American indians and get down to the cold hard data. The number of deaths, in an entire continent, was not that of a genocidal state. Small petty skirmishes, entire tribes let alone by official decree, that is Australia's real legacy. For eidence, here is a link to the works of a very dedicated historian. http://www.sydneyline.com/Fabrication.htm

When he confronted the authors who fabricated tales of slaughter and genocide with hard evidence and proved their lies. They have publicly admitted it, nervously. In Australia, there has been a fabrication of aboriginal history, a creation of oppression.

As for the concentration camps, they were nothing like Nazi concentration camps. So please dont use the term when it conceals differences. Saying that assault and rape occurred in these camps, is pointless, and creates the impression that it happened en masse to everyone there. Which would be false. Do you know assaults and rape occur in all societies, and is an unfortunate consequence of people living together? Pointing at this example is just an attempt to malign it. Do you know how many rapes and incidents of assault there was? Was it lower in these orphanages than in the wider society? Were they safer? Or better yet, what was the rate of assault and rape in the aboriginal tribes they were taken from?

Sorry to pull you up in this Houman, but i get annoyed when people jump on the leftist bandwagon, make generalisations, assumptions and false connections. And say things that have been proven to be incorrect.

 

[Achaemenid]

ok , i play with Noble difficulty level , and manage to survive from barbarians attacks . but now i have another trouble . How am I supposed to trade Technology?!

you transfer Enable Trade Technoloy to Writing , i take it . but there is no Technology for trading in Diplomacy Window.!

Keep going and you would find some very interesting aspects about The Persians as well. Like the real Immortal or Zoroastrians etc...

Yes, Houman , i was really delighted when i found Zoroastrism and stablish Fire Temple .all persian spechial units are Splendid.

 

[Donkey Puncher]

you cant do tech trading in TR

 

[Mexico]

@Vertico
hmm, this is second post with railroad tech problem...but in may game all is working fine, i am unable to reproduce bug
pls, send me saved game to bodnar.pet(at)gmail.com

terrorist act - thisl look like assassin doing his job - unit is called assassin and you can see him with your own assassin (builded in capital city after discovering Monarchy)

@Achaemenid
trading tech is disabled, we are using new method: open tech sharing: when you are researching new technolgy AND AI has already researched this AND you have open border agreement with , you get 150% bonus to research

 

[dyceman]

my optical drive went to a better place a long time ago; I had to install the game using an image file and I play it with a crack. I've moved out of the dorms since then so I no longer have the .iso file and I can't find my installation disk for the life of me. this being said, I'm incredibly impressed by the description of the mod y'all have made and I hope I can still use it. any ideas?

thank you in advance,
Alex

 

[Houman]

@ Los Tiranos,

Maybe there was a misunderstanding. I shouldn't have put the Aborigines case within the same sentence as the Native American Indian. All I wanted to say that those camps existed also in Australia. However as you are right about it that the Australian camps are not comparable to the American ones. But maybe you can explain me the purpose of these camps in general. Were they not meant to be to "integrate" the natives into a Christian society by force? Children were separated from their parents and were forbidden to speak the native tongue. It was meant to destroy the native culture. However again there was a difference between the camps there and in USA; since the latter went many steps further.

My comparisons with Nazi Germany - are meant to be shocking and make people to think about those events. Just turn on the TV and watch how Mr Bush and his administration is talking in every speech about “land of free”, “Democracy” and “the free world” and these events are easily forgotten. I know that those camps were not 1:1 identical with German camps. However also the American camps were made for one purpose; to eliminate the Native Culture. I highly recommend reading the "500 Nations" series, how 500 little to gigantic Indian civilizations have been destroyed since 1492 until the beginning of 20th century. And then maybe we should think if these people have deserved it that some people are coming into their lands, taking it away and slaughter them and call them savages at the same time. I hope we won’t miss the main point of my message in future discussions.

@Dyceman
Click on your windows explorer on Tools --> Folder Options --> View --> Show hidden files and folders --> OK

@Vertico
These freaking terrorist don't give us a break, not even when we are gaming.
Check out the Assassin feature...

@Achaemenid
More to come with the Warlords Patch. Rostam as Great General, more units etc.

Regards
Houman

 

[Los Tirano]

Yeah, i understand your point about forced assimilation. Though i dont agree with what was done in the Australian case, three things need to be added.
1) The number of aborigines taken and 'educated' was small and they were treated far better than the american indians.
2) They believed they were doing the right thing at the time. The notions of educating the savage and improving their circumstances were rampant. Those taken were given a western education and training to perform tasks. Thus, allowing them to join Australian society. We heap on the scorn and say how horrible they are. But the people involved were trying to help, and i would say they were basically good people.
3) Was it not better overall? Cultural damage yes. Alienation most definately. But aboriginal tribal society was not peaceful or comfortable. Harsh justice, living off the land, malnutrition, poor sanitation, early death from diseases or even simple infections. Not to mention the absolute control exerted by the elders, the taking of child brides. Unpleasant in many cases.

 

[THARN]

Come on Houman..
That was Friggin 225 years ago...... It's 2006, and people do know what the American Indians went through here in America. you act as if you were the fly on the wall back then and know everything that happened for truth.
The only truth is -you know what you've been told or read from someone elses point of view. Like everone else who spouts off with there views.

I understand you used the Nazi's as a shocking comparison, but damnit- things were different in the 1930's and 40s- information was more available and the World was trying to get along- Germany had the wool pulled over their eyes from the inside- and like today- that whole country gets to be reminded what a handful of evil morons turned them into.

The American frontier was all about expansion- thats just the way it was- not my idea/not anyone elses who's around today so give us a f'n break will ya..

If I was able to choose another lifetime to live, I would love to be an American Indian- in the days where they were unmolested and only skirmished amongst the different tribes.And: There were tribes who were very brutal to other tribes..it's human nature.
The American Indian has been given quite a few
reperations.. nothing will change the fact that they were forced into almost unlivable areas of the country/and or forced to assimilate a lonnnng time ago..
Just quit it with the "so much for Democracy,and land of the free BS"

The Spanish pretty much wiped out the Incas - rape murder/genocide..it was all there..all for gold...
The Dutch were very very prominent in the African slave trade...
I could go on-I Hate to have to throw in what the Muslims have done and are doing today..
hate to have to throw in what the Inquisition did- Im sure you know about that....
Stalin? holy sht...That guy was a one man wrecking crew on his own people..
The Japanese... woah! Brutal beyond belief... skinning people alive.. forced slave labor....rape/murder..and so on and so on....

Hey - every nation has a few bad spots in their history...
I've had it with all the talk about the US sucks and oh my I wonder what they are going to do now.. those capitalist pigs...Damn America always gettin into everyone elses business..
...BECAUSE WE HAVE TOO...
I wish The US would just pull out of all the places it has armed forces- put all its money into its own infrastructure.. thumbs its nose at all the helpless people in the world living in poverty and squalor... quits giving billions to other countries for aid..and focuses on its own people more..

Then I could see how the rest of the world would get along..
Like a bunch of 5 year old spoiled brats on a playground with no supervison..thats How!

while im on this subject about how you feel about US and what you know from the news:

I am able to look up anything I want on the internet/read ANY book I want to and get news from ALL sides- not just what my govt allows.. I can make my own choice from alot of sources.. Sorry Europe/and even the UK- your news is spoon fed to you..Believe it.
I guess thats why you have these horrible opinions these days about the U.S>

Thats unfortunate.

 

[Vertico]

@Vertico
hmm, this is second post with railroad tech problem...but in may game all is working fine, i am unable to reproduce bug
pls, send me saved game to bodnar.pet(at)gmail.com

terrorist act - thisl look like assassin doing his job - unit is called assassin and you can see him with your own assassin (builded in capital city after discovering Monarchy)

I was thinking if it were assasins, so I built few ninjas. However I was unable to see foreign assasins in my cities. When I sent them to rival cities - I couldn't find any action buton to do some terrorism. Is there any trick that should I use or terrorism is banned for human players, to not train potential killers

Saved game was sent - I hope it will help with this tech problem

 

[Anaztazioch]

There is no action button for Assassins or Ninjas. All u need to do is wait 2 turns in foreign city. Just get in and use skip "space bar", next turn u will recive scrolling message "1 turn to assassin activation", and also skip his turn.
After u end turn u will see boom or "resource popup" sound, an it mean succsesfull or unsuccesful. And thats the trick. I belive that assassins have a chance of surviving the attack and spawn back in ur capital whith +1 xp.

 

[Achaemenid]

@Mexico

thank you for your explanation . i just have one other question : Is there no way to know what technologies other AI have? ( for deciding whether to sign open border with them or not )

@Houman

Rostam?!!! wowwwww what a exciting thing

Houman, can you add other Leaders to Persia? such as : Xerxes or Arsaces or Ardashir .

 

[Bast]

This mod is excellent. Thanks guys.

 

[MindProphetX]

Come on Houman..
That was Friggin 225 years ago...... It's 2006, and people do know what the American Indians went through here in America. you act as if you were the fly on the wall back then and know everything that happened for truth.
The only truth is -you know what you've been told or read from someone elses point of view. Like everone else who spouts off with there views.

I understand you used the Nazi's as a shocking comparison, but damnit- things were different in the 1930's and 40s- information was more available and the World was trying to get along- Germany had the wool pulled over their eyes from the inside- and like today- that whole country gets to be reminded what a handful of evil morons turned them into.

The American frontier was all about expansion- thats just the way it was- not my idea/not anyone elses who's around today so give us a f'n break will ya..

If I was able to choose another lifetime to live, I would love to be an American Indian- in the days where they were unmolested and only skirmished amongst the different tribes.And: There were tribes who were very brutal to other tribes..it's human nature.
The American Indian has been given quite a few
reperations.. nothing will change the fact that they were forced into almost unlivable areas of the country/and or forced to assimilate a lonnnng time ago..
Just quit it with the "so much for Democracy,and land of the free BS"

The Spanish pretty much wiped out the Incas - rape murder/genocide..it was all there..all for gold...
The Dutch were very very prominent in the African slave trade...
I could go on-I Hate to have to throw in what the Muslims have done and are doing today..
hate to have to throw in what the Inquisition did- Im sure you know about that....
Stalin? holy sht...That guy was a one man wrecking crew on his own people..
The Japanese... woah! Brutal beyond belief... skinning people alive.. forced slave labor....rape/murder..and so on and so on....

Hey - every nation has a few bad spots in their history...
I've had it with all the talk about the US sucks and oh my I wonder what they are going to do now.. those capitalist pigs...Damn America always gettin into everyone elses business..
...BECAUSE WE HAVE TOO...
I wish The US would just pull out of all the places it has armed forces- put all its money into its own infrastructure.. thumbs its nose at all the helpless people in the world living in poverty and squalor... quits giving billions to other countries for aid..and focuses on its own people more..

Then I could see how the rest of the world would get along..
Like a bunch of 5 year old spoiled brats on a playground with no supervison..thats How!

while im on this subject about how you feel about US and what you know from the news:

I am able to look up anything I want on the internet/read ANY book I want to and get news from ALL sides- not just what my govt allows.. I can make my own choice from alot of sources.. Sorry Europe/and even the UK- your news is spoon fed to you..Believe it.
I guess thats why you have these horrible opinions these days about the U.S>

Thats unfortunate.

Well said to an extent... but as anyone can see there are many perspectives and nothing is as simple as it seems, no simple solution to anything... Best point is what is America now compared to what it was then..
Everyone and every nation has a past but thats just it, its the past so leave it there to learn from not criticize and judge upon...
We are different people now, just as you'll be a different person and a few weeks from now...

 

[ruffriders23]

I like this mod, but could you do something to incorperate the Pirate Island mod too? Being able to play as a pirate instead of a leader is a cool idea. I would like to see the mod make the pirate leaders people like:

Anne Bonny
Bartholomew R.
Beniowski, M.
Edward Teach
Henry Morgan
John Rackham
Jean Laffite
Mary Read
Samuel Bellamy
Sir Francis Drake
Stede Bonnet
William Kidd

Most of these people would have pictures on Google, and it would add a bit of realism to the Pirate Mod. Pirates have been a real part of our history as well. What do you think?