Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
Can any1 send me a link to Map Editor that works whith all TR features ? Like all resources, units and stuff.
[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0
- Thread starter Houman
- Start date
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
@ ruffriders23
Yes nice indeed. But pirates havent been such a real threat untill European colonies in New Land. Of course India and Africa trade routs werent the safiest.
Alas for piracy and naval fleet. 4 moves for galley is too much and 3 for conoe... Its like taking 5 turns for chariot to go from Barcelona to Rome, and galley makes that way in 1 turn. A bit too fast i say. And that my coastal city loosing 2 fishing boats couse a barb galley pops out of my sight and swims pillaging... And i need 5 turns for 1work boat and barbarian needs 1 turn to kill 2 fishing boats (10 turns of production + moving). 2 is good for galleys.
Yes nice indeed. But pirates havent been such a real threat untill European colonies in New Land. Of course India and Africa trade routs werent the safiest.
Alas for piracy and naval fleet. 4 moves for galley is too much and 3 for conoe... Its like taking 5 turns for chariot to go from Barcelona to Rome, and galley makes that way in 1 turn. A bit too fast i say. And that my coastal city loosing 2 fishing boats couse a barb galley pops out of my sight and swims pillaging... And i need 5 turns for 1work boat and barbarian needs 1 turn to kill 2 fishing boats (10 turns of production + moving). 2 is good for galleys.
ruffriders23
Prince
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2006
- Messages
- 399
Anaztazioch said:
I really enjoyed playing as the enemy and thought being the bad guy would give Total Realism a bit of a twist. Not all leaders in our history have been good leaders. It may make some people mad, but Hitler WAS a leader. Total Realism would be better if you had a situation where you do bad instead of good. When you take over a city, you just win it, there are no adverse consiquences for doing so.
I know that could easily snowball into a big giant indepth mod, but I like playing as the Pirate or Barbarian. Could this work somehow?
BTW: I didn't say Hitler was good, just that he was a leader. It would be interesting to play as the guy with bad intentions instead of always playing with smiling animated leaders.
I just completed my first win using this excellent mod. I play Noble and basically play random settings/maps. This mod really requires a different mindset from the normal game. I'm sure many others in this unbelievably long thread have made game play comments, but here are mine.
It took 4-5 games to get the hang of it. No more b-lining to BW and chopping to an early lead. I love the barbs at the beginning of the game, it's very challenging. I found that my early build plan had to be something like warrior, warrior, warrior, settler instead of the common worker, worker, warrior, settler type build plan. If you don't have border patrols to keep those dark squares outside your borders lit up, the barbs just keep coming in a conga line towards your cities. With patrols, they're much more managable.
I think tech research is too slow in the beginning and it leads to a major game play flaw. Or maybe I just haven't devised a strategy to overcome it. What I found happening in many games would be that I'd have 3-5 cities going, but would still be waiting umpteen turns to get the next tech, even at 80-90% science. I would build all the buildings I could, but at some point all you have left is to crank out units. Even with restrained expansion at some point I'm just spamming units and the upkeep ends up killing me. Before I know it, my science is forced to 10% and Iron Working is 247 turns away!
I'd try to fight my way through by razing my neighbor's cities to raise cash, but I never could climb out of that hole. The game I finally won, the key to victory there was the fact that I was a few turns from completing the Pyramids when someone beat me to it. That extra cash enabled me to run deficits until I could get over the tech hump. Later in the game research seems to speed up a bit and become more managable.
I love all the new resources (laughed my ass off when I say the hemp leaf for the first time). But, with such a diversity you'll end up with far more stuff that help with happiness and health. Maybe too much to the point that it's not much of a challenge to keep cities happy and healthy. In the late game I could be a warmonger no problem since all those different resources kept the populace placated.
I love all the new units and specializations, I don't think there's any serious game balance issues here. Generals are great, it really makes you focus on what kind of army groups you want to form when going to battle.
I'm not sure I like the ban on tech trading, takes away one of the aspects of the game and makes diplomacy less interesting.
It took 4-5 games to get the hang of it. No more b-lining to BW and chopping to an early lead. I love the barbs at the beginning of the game, it's very challenging. I found that my early build plan had to be something like warrior, warrior, warrior, settler instead of the common worker, worker, warrior, settler type build plan. If you don't have border patrols to keep those dark squares outside your borders lit up, the barbs just keep coming in a conga line towards your cities. With patrols, they're much more managable.
I think tech research is too slow in the beginning and it leads to a major game play flaw. Or maybe I just haven't devised a strategy to overcome it. What I found happening in many games would be that I'd have 3-5 cities going, but would still be waiting umpteen turns to get the next tech, even at 80-90% science. I would build all the buildings I could, but at some point all you have left is to crank out units. Even with restrained expansion at some point I'm just spamming units and the upkeep ends up killing me. Before I know it, my science is forced to 10% and Iron Working is 247 turns away!
I'd try to fight my way through by razing my neighbor's cities to raise cash, but I never could climb out of that hole. The game I finally won, the key to victory there was the fact that I was a few turns from completing the Pyramids when someone beat me to it. That extra cash enabled me to run deficits until I could get over the tech hump. Later in the game research seems to speed up a bit and become more managable.
I love all the new resources (laughed my ass off when I say the hemp leaf for the first time). But, with such a diversity you'll end up with far more stuff that help with happiness and health. Maybe too much to the point that it's not much of a challenge to keep cities happy and healthy. In the late game I could be a warmonger no problem since all those different resources kept the populace placated.
I love all the new units and specializations, I don't think there's any serious game balance issues here. Generals are great, it really makes you focus on what kind of army groups you want to form when going to battle.
I'm not sure I like the ban on tech trading, takes away one of the aspects of the game and makes diplomacy less interesting.
Ok i read your instrucitons on "How to install" but there is a problem...
C:\Documents and Settings\<user>\Application Data\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\cache"
dont have folders called application data. i know how to get to civ 4 folder but its threw program files. and their is no cache folder/option.... any thoughts?
Ive downloaded total realism but am scared to try it out for fear that i have to reinstall after i delete a **** load of stuff help me plz
C:\Documents and Settings\<user>\Application Data\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\cache"
dont have folders called application data. i know how to get to civ 4 folder but its threw program files. and their is no cache folder/option.... any thoughts?
Ive downloaded total realism but am scared to try it out for fear that i have to reinstall after i delete a **** load of stuff help me plz
ruffriders23
Prince
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2006
- Messages
- 399
Elit3 said:
Just install it and don't mess with the folders. It self-installed for me without an issue.
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
@ ruffriders23
The point is that u can "sell" ur units to mercenary market by clickin new action icon (hand whith scroll or something). This way you dont pay maintanace for that one. More - it can be hired by foreighn civ (not barbs) and u get like 20%(?) its cost. The cost is for hirering(+x gold) and for maintanace(+y gold/turn).
- Later in the game research seems to speed up a bit and become more managable.
On monarch whith 6 Mongol cities, 6 libraries, 6 markets, 6 curthouse, 1 forbidden palace, 6 zoroastrian monastaries, 3 buddist monastaries, 4 wealth and 2 resarch i had 100% resarch +1 gold/turn and 34 turns for Astronomy and 38 for Education. So it does speed up ? I had heridary rule.
Hint. If you want to see what Long resarch time IS - play world map as Incas, get 5-7 cities have 25% sciance whith +1g/t and 3 units/city + 1 worker/city. Bronze Working comes in 27 turns, Iron in 68, Horse Back in 145
play not to mention AI seems to dont pay military upkeep and he rushes u whith xxx stack of units that takes 2 minutes just top watch these all archer move 1 grid xD
And this Long resarch as u say is long enough, so i get to Middle ages in like 200ad sometimes faster, on Noble in 80bc xb. Easiest game is as England and Japan, as you dont have many cities, maintanace is low, no barbs and Island cities are hard to conquer, AI usually moves 3 galleys whith military at same time so its like nothing.
The point is that u can "sell" ur units to mercenary market by clickin new action icon (hand whith scroll or something). This way you dont pay maintanace for that one. More - it can be hired by foreighn civ (not barbs) and u get like 20%(?) its cost. The cost is for hirering(+x gold) and for maintanace(+y gold/turn).
- Later in the game research seems to speed up a bit and become more managable.
On monarch whith 6 Mongol cities, 6 libraries, 6 markets, 6 curthouse, 1 forbidden palace, 6 zoroastrian monastaries, 3 buddist monastaries, 4 wealth and 2 resarch i had 100% resarch +1 gold/turn and 34 turns for Astronomy and 38 for Education. So it does speed up ? I had heridary rule.
Hint. If you want to see what Long resarch time IS - play world map as Incas, get 5-7 cities have 25% sciance whith +1g/t and 3 units/city + 1 worker/city. Bronze Working comes in 27 turns, Iron in 68, Horse Back in 145
play not to mention AI seems to dont pay military upkeep and he rushes u whith xxx stack of units that takes 2 minutes just top watch these all archer move 1 grid xDAnd this Long resarch as u say is long enough, so i get to Middle ages in like 200ad sometimes faster, on Noble in 80bc xb. Easiest game is as England and Japan, as you dont have many cities, maintanace is low, no barbs and Island cities are hard to conquer, AI usually moves 3 galleys whith military at same time so its like nothing.
Houman
TR Team Leader
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2002
- Messages
- 1,083
@THARN
It was not 225 years ago. You have counted all these events that were done by all the nations you named. I would be happy if you elaborate them. It is damn important that these events are not forgotten, it is not important how far back they go. Those who want to understand the future have to look into past. In 1979 as the Iranian Revolution started, it was a revolution against the Monarchy and for democracy. Khomeini was just a peaceful Ayatollah who spoke nicely, modern, equal right of men and women, no mandatory Islamic society etc etc. One year after the revolution had succeeded, everything changed over night. He was working one year long on a plan for an Islamic state which succeeded greatly. He was afraid that the military which was neutral until then, could coup against them, so he copied the German Gestapo from WW2 and called it the Revolution Guards. The revolutions guards got their own military equipment - a second Army as a counter point, with lots of legal freedom for intervention in people’s personal affairs. Until today only the Revolutionary Guards are allowed to enter the capital but military is not allowed (fear of coup). Khomeini also copied the Hitler Youth and called it Bassij youth. 16 years old and up got also weapons and patrolled the streets. Then suddenly all the parties have been forbidden but his own. Their leaders got assassinated. The equal rights of men and woman which has been in place by Shah had always been a thorn in Khomeini’s eyes, so he proclaimed the Islamic way from 1980. Woman shall have 50% of men’s legal rights. etc etc. There were two big demonstrations by woman against his plans which were crushed by the revolutionary guards.
As you can see even in the 20th century you can use methods from history that worked once. What worked for Hitler would work again. This is why nothing shall be forgotten. You think all that cannot happen again? This is naive. We are not much different from 1940es. No one has really changed. What has changed? The attitude? Haha sure. Did you know that even until today, if the Indians would find a natural resource in their reservoirs, which is officially their land with own authority – still the USA would owns it? SO much to we are so much different than few hundred years ago…
Remember or already forgotten?
Second part of your post shows a lot of arrogance. Who elected USA as the world police, that you think non-us countries would then be "Like a bunch of 5 year old spoiled brats on a playground with no supervison.." USA was brought down by god to supervise humanity or what? How stupid is that? Where do you get these ideas?
@Achaemenid
Xerxes or Arsaces or Ardashir were first Kings of each dynasty. We need to implement military leaders such as Rostam Farokhzad, Aryobarzan etc. Let see how it will be done.
@ruffriders23
The Pirates Mod would be probably not incorporated yet. Maybe in the future. Too much to do for now.
@Anaztazioch
The reason why Ships have higher moves is that often they have to go around, while Land units take a straight line. Less moves for ships would mean less importance.
@eMarkM
Thanks for report. Are you aware of the Open Tech feature in game and how you use it in order to gain science research bonus?
@Elit3
Don't worry about it. Install the mod for now and just play. The folder will be created once you started the game.
News: The new job is very challenging guys. We didn't have much time to improve the patch in the last few working days. Weekend is better. Therefore we are forced to move the release of the normal patch about one week. The release of Warlords patch won't be affected. Maybe we shall bring both patches at the same time. Quality is more important than promises.
Good night
Houman
It was not 225 years ago.
You have counted all these events that were done by all the nations you named. I would be happy if you elaborate them. It is damn important that these events are not forgotten, it is not important how far back they go. Those who want to understand the future have to look into past. In 1979 as the Iranian Revolution started, it was a revolution against the Monarchy and for democracy. Khomeini was just a peaceful Ayatollah who spoke nicely, modern, equal right of men and women, no mandatory Islamic society etc etc. One year after the revolution had succeeded, everything changed over night. He was working one year long on a plan for an Islamic state which succeeded greatly. He was afraid that the military which was neutral until then, could coup against them, so he copied the German Gestapo from WW2 and called it the Revolution Guards. The revolutions guards got their own military equipment - a second Army as a counter point, with lots of legal freedom for intervention in people’s personal affairs. Until today only the Revolutionary Guards are allowed to enter the capital but military is not allowed (fear of coup). Khomeini also copied the Hitler Youth and called it Bassij youth. 16 years old and up got also weapons and patrolled the streets. Then suddenly all the parties have been forbidden but his own. Their leaders got assassinated. The equal rights of men and woman which has been in place by Shah had always been a thorn in Khomeini’s eyes, so he proclaimed the Islamic way from 1980. Woman shall have 50% of men’s legal rights. etc etc. There were two big demonstrations by woman against his plans which were crushed by the revolutionary guards.As you can see even in the 20th century you can use methods from history that worked once. What worked for Hitler would work again. This is why nothing shall be forgotten. You think all that cannot happen again? This is naive. We are not much different from 1940es. No one has really changed. What has changed? The attitude? Haha sure. Did you know that even until today, if the Indians would find a natural resource in their reservoirs, which is officially their land with own authority – still the USA would owns it? SO much to we are so much different than few hundred years ago…
Remember or already forgotten?
Second part of your post shows a lot of arrogance. Who elected USA as the world police, that you think non-us countries would then be "Like a bunch of 5 year old spoiled brats on a playground with no supervison.." USA was brought down by god to supervise humanity or what? How stupid is that? Where do you get these ideas?
@Achaemenid
Xerxes or Arsaces or Ardashir were first Kings of each dynasty. We need to implement military leaders such as Rostam Farokhzad, Aryobarzan etc. Let see how it will be done.
@ruffriders23
The Pirates Mod would be probably not incorporated yet. Maybe in the future. Too much to do for now.
@Anaztazioch
The reason why Ships have higher moves is that often they have to go around, while Land units take a straight line. Less moves for ships would mean less importance.
@eMarkM
Thanks for report. Are you aware of the Open Tech feature in game and how you use it in order to gain science research bonus?
@Elit3
Don't worry about it. Install the mod for now and just play. The folder will be created once you started the game.
News: The new job is very challenging guys. We didn't have much time to improve the patch in the last few working days. Weekend is better. Therefore we are forced to move the release of the normal patch about one week. The release of Warlords patch won't be affected. Maybe we shall bring both patches at the same time. Quality is more important than promises.
Good night
Houman
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
Now im playing as Cyrus on diety Cities TR World Map. Used world builder to put castle in all barb cities to avoid fast capturing, Put Cristianity HC in Rome, put Cristianity in Berlin. Put Zoroastrian HC in Parsa. Put Judaism HC in Assyria and sprea it in all Greece. Put Islam HC in Mecca, spread it to Thebes, Madrid, Babylon and Djenne. Put Hinduism HC somewhere in India. Put Buddisn HC in Beijing. Made some changes in Memphis(Name to Alexandria, put some hills, 1 fish, stone and marble). Also put 2 great prophets to one of my cities as specialists. Also put flood plains around Thebes and 3 hills north of Assyria and 2 flood north of Parsa, Put river from hills whith stones north of Parsa stright down, changed 3 desert hills into plains hills around Parsa, changed 2 plains into 2 grass under Parsa (cow and nothing). Also added 3 grasslands at see near Tokto, put Towns there, Gave iron in free hills near Tokyo. Given fish 1 grid south of Tokyo.
Now Islam is dominating. I survived 2 wars whith greeks and 1 whith India. Have Parse, Parsegade, Susa(was razed at 5th turn by barbs, had to rebuild lol), Samrakand, Gothurks(razed it and put my city there), some desert city south of Huns or Alans, and Toursus(or close) west of Delphi, Babylon and Mome city 1 grid west of razed Assyria so i have access to sea. Have lvl 10 India Elephant mercenary whith 88 maintanace cost. Got 35% sciance and +3gold/turn. Got Iron workings in 6 turns, Hoseback Riding in 10, Code of Laws in 21 as i was 1st to resarch it. Now im getting Mathematics? in 6 turns. Got 2 armored swordsman in each city. Saladin, Hathepsut, Isabella are islam friendly. Alexander is islam Furious (i razed his Holy city Assyria). Tokugawa is friendly (probly some change in WB, but not sure), Bismark same as Tokugawa. I Fear annoyed India, Greece and Mongols :/. My stongest units are mercenary Elephant, armored swordsman and can have mujahids/persian archers/cataprahts any time. Also Saladin will gladly join my fights as well as Isabella. Still my army is not good to stop an attack, and i dont have cash. Hope to finish up curthouses, get resarch and currancy and make markets wealth and army. Wonder if i survive...
Now Islam is dominating. I survived 2 wars whith greeks and 1 whith India. Have Parse, Parsegade, Susa(was razed at 5th turn by barbs, had to rebuild lol), Samrakand, Gothurks(razed it and put my city there), some desert city south of Huns or Alans, and Toursus(or close) west of Delphi, Babylon and Mome city 1 grid west of razed Assyria so i have access to sea. Have lvl 10 India Elephant mercenary whith 88 maintanace cost. Got 35% sciance and +3gold/turn. Got Iron workings in 6 turns, Hoseback Riding in 10, Code of Laws in 21 as i was 1st to resarch it. Now im getting Mathematics? in 6 turns. Got 2 armored swordsman in each city. Saladin, Hathepsut, Isabella are islam friendly. Alexander is islam Furious (i razed his Holy city Assyria). Tokugawa is friendly (probly some change in WB, but not sure), Bismark same as Tokugawa. I Fear annoyed India, Greece and Mongols :/. My stongest units are mercenary Elephant, armored swordsman and can have mujahids/persian archers/cataprahts any time. Also Saladin will gladly join my fights as well as Isabella. Still my army is not good to stop an attack, and i dont have cash. Hope to finish up curthouses, get resarch and currancy and make markets wealth and army. Wonder if i survive...
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
You can play this mod on all difficulaties, but you need allies. As I survived 1st war whith Greeks thanks to Egypt, i lost that city close to ruins of Assyria and Babylon, Egypt gave me back both cities 
THARN
Warlord
Houman- the 225 years ago was an estimated time that the English colonies and then the fledgling America began pushing the American Indians around which ran through the 1800's but before that it was the French who were killing off the American Indian- the other points I made were heinous crimes by people in power throughout history up and past WW2.
what is your point???? I know COMPLETELY that this sht happens still!! what do you think I am trying to say? the reason it happens is because information is kept from the people and they are fed propaganda. a group of power hungry dolts takes charge and boom- megalomania ensues.. North Korea!!?? Iraq under Hussein!!?? Germany under HItler/ Romania under cerchesku(sp?) Of course it can still happen today and it still does right before our eyes, but most people are so taken up with how bad the U.S> is that they ignore the real probelm areas... Including this latest Holy War.
- it happens here quite a bit too and we have a free media-
If I were to watch only one news source I would only get half of the story- it;s a scary process but thats the way it is- everyone has an agenda-all brought on for political and monetary gains. Yet I won't be jaded into believing everything I'm told from one source... ala' some of your links.the second part of my reply was not of arrogance, just fact.
I would love it If USA would become isolationist again-
My emotions have gotten the better of me because all I hear these days and all I see in forums is how evil the US is...
and I say screw you. spout off all you want, you and the rest of the world haven't the slightest clue about what your talking about-
And I take serious offense that you can make a wide generalization like you do about the United States of America, my country. I have a right to stand up for it like you have a right to stand up for yours and anyone else theirs..
I take it as a personal attack to me when I see all the garbage thrown around about America because you are referring to Americans, and I am an American.
I dont come here to get into an argument-I come here to see when the latest update is. there is an off topic area where this stuff is discussed- I only went there once when some of these posts were moved there- I wont go back. you must understand that even though you feel like you are 100% correct in everything you say and believe of how the world works- you are not. neither am I. If you have an idea or are angered about something- go somewhere on the net and get both views and make your own decision.
the picture with Rumsfeld shows me a little of why you feel the way you do about The US- I understand that-you are Iranian are you not? I have no idea why Iran and Iraq went to war -thats something In would truly like to learn about. USA backs regimes all the time- half the time it's not the right thing to do.. I agree- If it was up to me - I'd pull out all of the hundreds of billions of funding that the US sends all around the world- it only gets us into trouble and most of the money is pocketed by corruption anyway.
Same stuff happened with Osama binLaden when fighting Russia in Afghanistan- we gave em money/training and weapons and when Russia pulled out- osama turned his attention to us.. all I can do is vote in the right people to office- write my congressman or senator- that is if they take some time away to read a letter instead of accepting campaign contributions or get a monetary kickback for voting one way or another..
ahh hell -I give up.
Houman
TR Team Leader
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2002
- Messages
- 1,083
@THARN
If you do not accept only one source, I am very happy about that. I like some of your comments, which shows you are not that one sided in your head. However as I said no one in the world asked you Americans become the world police and do intervention in other countries affairs. Who asked you for that? Who asked you for backing up dictators? You say you see the picture of Rumsfeld giving a warm hand to Saddam and yet you admit not understanding it. You admit not knowing anything about the war of Attrition against Iran led by Iraq backed by USA. 8 years long 2 millions dead on both sides. American Chemical and Biological weapons were used by Saddam to kill Iranians. And now your TV is turning the facts as these countries have produced these weapons by themselves. Your government turns the facts all the time and tells you patriotic bulldust in the TV and you guys get tears in your eyes while hearing these propaganda.
Yes, I have Iranian origin and am well informed about the history of Middle East and interventions of USA, yet I have enough balls to criticize the Iranian Government, to criticize even Islam. But you admit even though you do not agree with your government you do not want to criticize it, because hey they are American and you are American. What kind of logic!!! This is where the problem starts; I have met many American Democrats ( and also got here many PMs from them) who are against Bush but deep inside they still "Crawl into his butt" (A German saying). Why? Because the propaganda of Patriotism tells you 24/7 that a patriotic American doesn't question the government. Welcome big brother...
Your parents were not like this. The generation of your parents had enough balls to go on the street and demonstrate against the unjust war in Vietnam. American government learned a lot how to prevent these things in the future. It is not anti-Americanism what I present you; I have more than once criticized countries from Middle East, Europe, USA, religions such as Islam and Christianity. Be open for criticism to analyze the problems in things you don't see. I am not saying I know everything I am just presenting my view with references from history. Like you present your point of view. And hey don't give up on me. I am a good guy, despite originating from a country of Axis of Evil.
Lets close this with a quote from George Washington:
Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty.
And its good that you here for the update. You will have it soon.
Finally its weekend, I am just coming from a pub where I had drinks with my colleagues. Now I start programming the Mod and will wake up tomorrow early to continue. Lets hope we get a big chunk done this weekend.
And before I go I tell you a secret; I might dislike the American foreign policies so much, but I have a weakness for American accent and humor. I prefer it much more than the British.
If you do not accept only one source, I am very happy about that. I like some of your comments, which shows you are not that one sided in your head. However as I said no one in the world asked you Americans become the world police and do intervention in other countries affairs. Who asked you for that? Who asked you for backing up dictators? You say you see the picture of Rumsfeld giving a warm hand to Saddam and yet you admit not understanding it. You admit not knowing anything about the war of Attrition against Iran led by Iraq backed by USA. 8 years long 2 millions dead on both sides. American Chemical and Biological weapons were used by Saddam to kill Iranians. And now your TV is turning the facts as these countries have produced these weapons by themselves. Your government turns the facts all the time and tells you patriotic bulldust in the TV and you guys get tears in your eyes while hearing these propaganda.
Yes, I have Iranian origin and am well informed about the history of Middle East and interventions of USA, yet I have enough balls to criticize the Iranian Government, to criticize even Islam. But you admit even though you do not agree with your government you do not want to criticize it, because hey they are American and you are American. What kind of logic!!! This is where the problem starts; I have met many American Democrats ( and also got here many PMs from them) who are against Bush but deep inside they still "Crawl into his butt" (A German saying). Why? Because the propaganda of Patriotism tells you 24/7 that a patriotic American doesn't question the government. Welcome big brother...
Your parents were not like this. The generation of your parents had enough balls to go on the street and demonstrate against the unjust war in Vietnam. American government learned a lot how to prevent these things in the future. It is not anti-Americanism what I present you; I have more than once criticized countries from Middle East, Europe, USA, religions such as Islam and Christianity. Be open for criticism to analyze the problems in things you don't see. I am not saying I know everything I am just presenting my view with references from history. Like you present your point of view. And hey don't give up on me. I am a good guy, despite originating from a country of Axis of Evil.
Lets close this with a quote from George Washington:
Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty.
George Washington And its good that you here for the update. You will have it soon.
Finally its weekend, I am just coming from a pub where I had drinks with my colleagues. Now I start programming the Mod and will wake up tomorrow early to continue. Lets hope we get a big chunk done this weekend.And before I go I tell you a secret; I might dislike the American foreign policies so much, but I have a weakness for American accent and humor.
I prefer it much more than the British.
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
I just found a glitch ? or how to call it. Well here it goes.
Civ whith borders touching mine has slavary - quite possible right ? And has slave rebel/uprising whith stack of 1 wildspearman, 1 wildaxeman and 1 archer. What does these slaves do ? walk 3 turns from His borders in to mine to pillage Mine improovements, kill My army, Kill my Workers !!! Its so annoying...
Civ whith borders touching mine has slavary - quite possible right ? And has slave rebel/uprising whith stack of 1 wildspearman, 1 wildaxeman and 1 archer. What does these slaves do ? walk 3 turns from His borders in to mine to pillage Mine improovements, kill My army, Kill my Workers !!! Its so annoying...
HHawk72
Chieftain
I'm an American, a former member of the U.S. Army, and a firm believer in free speech, and I have this to say:
I'll take Fawlty Towers over Three's Company anyday. There, I said it.
I'll take Fawlty Towers over Three's Company anyday. There, I said it.
I've been lurking for a while, but I felt the need to respond. (I'm American, BTW)
Also, to counter your John Wayne point... the 50's in the US were hardly known for accepting other ideas or cultures.
For me, I know that the US has done a lot of bad things to people, like every country, so I'm not really shocked by anything. While it's obviously sad, it was also done by people long before I was born. I've never felt that the US is this perfect bastion of freedom and democracy. It's still a pretty cool country with a lot of good things.
It doesn't excuse anything, but the people running these boarding schools were Christians trying to assimilate the Indians. It looks bad now (and it certainly was), but most of them at least thought that they were doing a good thing.
Again, I'm not excusing anyone, but I think comparisons to the Nazis are very harsh.
Furthermore, are you comparing Iraq to Vietnam? Even if you feel that it's unjust, Saddam Hussein is still a jerk (to be nice) who shouldn't have been in power. Vietnam was completely different.
But on to more important matters, like this excellent mod. Thank you very much, it really does improve the game. I've had a couple of thoughts:
Would there be a way to create actual supply lines? Like have it something a worker would build, connected to large stacks of your armies outside your borders. If not connected, the units would see their health go down every turn. I think this would slow down the time it takes to wipe out an entire civ. If that doesn't work, you could create a unit that would do the same thing (or maybe just have it's own square of your culture whereever it goes, so that if it's in enemy borders, it still carries your color and provides the healing bonus.) To make things more difficult, it could be like mercenaries and cost you money each turn.
Maybe I've just had bad luck, but in my games every civ typically likes other civs. Mansa Musa and Egypt, despite being the founders of their own religion, are friendly (this has happened in every game). If it's not just me, maybe the founders of each religion should be annoyed with each other, at best. Does playing with 'aggressive ai' checked make them more aggressive towards each other?
Similarly, there aren't enough wars! Almost everyone is content to be happy with each other. I was also wondering about war weariness. It seems that there should be different types of this. For example, when your civ is attacked, your citizens should become more patriotic and get a bonus (+ 10% hammer, or + happiness). After a while, if the war is still dragging on the weariness should set in.
When your civ attacks another, there should be a different kind of war weariness. Maybe - happiness, with civics like free speech making it worse, and police state making it less.
And, when there are wars, and then they make peace, it seems like that's it! There aren't grudge wars between the civs off and on for the entire game like you see in history.
Just my two cents, thanks for all the work everyone has done on such a great mod!
EDIT -
I was also wondering if it's possible to change and add more diplomacy options? One thing that always bothers me is that it's so hard to negotiate a trade embargo/cancel an open borders agreement. The option to have, say France, go to war with England is available, but there's no way you can get them to stop trading!
Could two civs form, prior to war, an agreement to attack a different civ together? For example, you approach France, and similarly to a defensive pact, you ask/bribe them to declare war on a specific civ if you do. This might be a way for middle of the pack civs to gang up on the leader. Also, is there a way to make it more likely that the leader civ gets attacked?
In the 1930's John Collier (who oddly enough doesn't have his own wikipedia page) was the Commissioner of Indian Affairs. He got a lot of reform for the Indians, in particular the Indian Reorganization Act. (another decent link here ) While obviously that didn't fix everything, it is proof that some people recognized how badly they'd been treated. Unfortunately, racism takes a long time to die.Houman said:
Also, to counter your John Wayne point... the 50's in the US were hardly known for accepting other ideas or cultures.
Maybe they just felt uncomfortable? It seems you're making very broad generalizations from your perception of the reaction of some friends.
For me, I know that the US has done a lot of bad things to people, like every country, so I'm not really shocked by anything. While it's obviously sad, it was also done by people long before I was born. I've never felt that the US is this perfect bastion of freedom and democracy. It's still a pretty cool country with a lot of good things.
I doubt any decently educated American has forgotten, but what are you going to do? They do get some benefits that normal citizens don't have, like the right to their own mini-government. Obviously it doesn't make up for anything, but it's something. Financial reparations might be nice for them, but it's also unfair to tax current citizens for a crime that they never comitted.
(Sorry, I seem to have quoted you all out of order, I don't think it changes your points though)
It doesn't excuse anything, but the people running these boarding schools were Christians trying to assimilate the Indians. It looks bad now (and it certainly was), but most of them at least thought that they were doing a good thing.
Again, I'm not excusing anyone, but I think comparisons to the Nazis are very harsh.
How are they, deep inside, crawling into his butt (not a bad saying, I must admit!) ? It seems to me that Bush's approval ratings show how people are questioning him. Nobody that I know feels it's unpatriotic to question the government. Some would argue that it's very patriotic to question the government.
Please don't glorify a bunch of hippies. I'm sure that although there were a lot of genuine anti-war protestors, there were plenty of people there because of the romanticism of rebellion. And also there to get high, and meet loose women.
Furthermore, are you comparing Iraq to Vietnam? Even if you feel that it's unjust, Saddam Hussein is still a jerk (to be nice) who shouldn't have been in power. Vietnam was completely different.
But on to more important matters, like this excellent mod. Thank you very much, it really does improve the game. I've had a couple of thoughts:
Would there be a way to create actual supply lines? Like have it something a worker would build, connected to large stacks of your armies outside your borders. If not connected, the units would see their health go down every turn. I think this would slow down the time it takes to wipe out an entire civ. If that doesn't work, you could create a unit that would do the same thing (or maybe just have it's own square of your culture whereever it goes, so that if it's in enemy borders, it still carries your color and provides the healing bonus.) To make things more difficult, it could be like mercenaries and cost you money each turn.
Maybe I've just had bad luck, but in my games every civ typically likes other civs. Mansa Musa and Egypt, despite being the founders of their own religion, are friendly (this has happened in every game). If it's not just me, maybe the founders of each religion should be annoyed with each other, at best. Does playing with 'aggressive ai' checked make them more aggressive towards each other?
Similarly, there aren't enough wars! Almost everyone is content to be happy with each other. I was also wondering about war weariness. It seems that there should be different types of this. For example, when your civ is attacked, your citizens should become more patriotic and get a bonus (+ 10% hammer, or + happiness). After a while, if the war is still dragging on the weariness should set in.
When your civ attacks another, there should be a different kind of war weariness. Maybe - happiness, with civics like free speech making it worse, and police state making it less.
And, when there are wars, and then they make peace, it seems like that's it! There aren't grudge wars between the civs off and on for the entire game like you see in history.
Just my two cents, thanks for all the work everyone has done on such a great mod!
EDIT -
I was also wondering if it's possible to change and add more diplomacy options? One thing that always bothers me is that it's so hard to negotiate a trade embargo/cancel an open borders agreement. The option to have, say France, go to war with England is available, but there's no way you can get them to stop trading!
Could two civs form, prior to war, an agreement to attack a different civ together? For example, you approach France, and similarly to a defensive pact, you ask/bribe them to declare war on a specific civ if you do. This might be a way for middle of the pack civs to gang up on the leader. Also, is there a way to make it more likely that the leader civ gets attacked?
Uncle Anton
Lighthorseman
HHawk72 said:
Likewise, as a former soldier (not American tho), I'm throwing in my two cents...
*Coughs* BLACKADDER! *Coughs*
Seriously gang, not so serious ok?
There are a lot of generalisations flying around the place, and none of it's doing anyone's temperament any favours, nor really achieving anything beyond getting ourselves all worked up over something none of us are in a position to change, at least not currently. I've been pretty much around the world (ie as a tourist - not deployed), and if there's one thing I've learnt it's this - you're gonna find good and bad wherever you go. You're gonna find people who disagree with you, and who you disagree with. You're going to form prejudices, and people are going to form prejudices against you. You're gonna be enlightened (Texans aren't loudmouthed cowboy louts with no manners) and you'll enlighten others (Australians aren't loudmouthed cowboy louts with no manners.... after all, most of us live in cities
). You'll find Europeans are actually extremely warm and friendly... Yes, even the Parisians. You'll find the Middle East IS a beautiful place when it's not falling down around your ears. You may even find the odd US Marine LAV driver who's capable of restraint when you intentionally try to annoy him/her by asking "How long they've been in the Army for", and "If you guys are fully amphibious then I guess the DoD spends lots of moolah on those blow-up pool-toy horsies right?" Additionally there are going to be things that certain countries have done which are pretty nasty and f#cked up. Likewise, chances are your country (or people if you want to consider your local populace in a non-nationalist framework) has done pretty nasty things too. This is usually the result of individuals working in some likeminded fashion for good or evil in a largely temporary capacity.
How about we all just accept that, remind ourselves that we're here as people linked by common purpose - to play a game which will probably isolate us from everything we otherwise need to pay attention to, such as wives, girlfriends, husbands, boyfriends, work, family and pretty much anything in life that's otherwise worthy of attention, but just ends up getting universally neglected as we continue to pump the digital crack that is Civ 4 into our veins.
Now... Kiddies? Less with the fighty-fighty... More with the moddy-moddy. The more political talk that happens here, the less time Houman's working on the new release.
Don't make me get out Uncle Anton's Pointy Stick of Ultimate Doomy Doomy Doom (TM), come down there and start a-pokin. Spartan117
Immortal
Houman said:
well people who critize governement, or seem anti foreign policy and such arent considered patriotic. many are considered anti american.
anyway good to see the mod coming along. i have a decent computer and i have played realism world map, but just as i am getting more interesed in my game, it becomes increasingly slow around industrial age and up. do you know if there is any improvement in speed.
ok.. First off i would like to say i love the mod. finally some "total realism" in a strategy game. anyway my problem is i cant trade technology. in the civopedia it says i need writing so i researched it. but somewhere else in the civopedia it says i need alphebet. so i researched that also. Soooooooo i still cant trade technology =(. this is a bummer. ive only ran into 3 other civ being as im america and extremely isolated on the earth map. i have tried to trade technology to these civs to no avail. im sure im the technological leader. I would like to reap my benefits. HELP.
Other thoughts for your next version:
I think you covered a lot of ground on total realism its nice. i think the only thing i can see that you need to work on now. is extensive diplomacy. Since real world diplomacy is unlimited i think diplomacy should be extremely .... well extensive. Other things i have noticed.
1: gold. modern times we dont trade gold. its simply the dollar (euro etc.. it could simply be called international currency)
2: International trade tax maybe? not sure how you could implement this into the game with the builder (btw where do i get this builder at?)
3: Uranium trade to countries could have a negetive international outlook? depending on how much they hate the civ you have traded uranium to. the more negetive points you get.
4: Suppling countries with arms if they are in a war, should hurt your relations with the country they are warring with.
5: Marines and Ak-47 units have the same stats? Im sorry but European and American Infantry are the best supplied in the world. The statistics should reflect that. Maybe their unit cost per turn should be increased to compensate. But that would be "realistic"
6: Ok, this is my favorite. I was thinking, if you can, you should make the units smaller, but more plentiful. Like instead of 3 huge godzilla looking AK-47 units. Their should be maybe 7 considerably smaller units running around. Not sure how this will work with peoples CPU and battle animations. Might cause a strain on memory i dont know. but these are just my ideas.
Well i could go on forever. Ive been playin these types of games for over 8 years and i have so many ideas in my head. If you would like more ideas just let me know.
But please primarily address my issue. thanks
(also how do i edit units and stuff? where is the program? thanks houman your a lot of help)
Other thoughts for your next version:
I think you covered a lot of ground on total realism its nice. i think the only thing i can see that you need to work on now. is extensive diplomacy. Since real world diplomacy is unlimited i think diplomacy should be extremely .... well extensive. Other things i have noticed.
1: gold. modern times we dont trade gold. its simply the dollar (euro etc.. it could simply be called international currency)
2: International trade tax maybe? not sure how you could implement this into the game with the builder (btw where do i get this builder at?)
3: Uranium trade to countries could have a negetive international outlook? depending on how much they hate the civ you have traded uranium to. the more negetive points you get.
4: Suppling countries with arms if they are in a war, should hurt your relations with the country they are warring with.
5: Marines and Ak-47 units have the same stats? Im sorry but European and American Infantry are the best supplied in the world. The statistics should reflect that. Maybe their unit cost per turn should be increased to compensate. But that would be "realistic"
6: Ok, this is my favorite. I was thinking, if you can, you should make the units smaller, but more plentiful. Like instead of 3 huge godzilla looking AK-47 units. Their should be maybe 7 considerably smaller units running around. Not sure how this will work with peoples CPU and battle animations. Might cause a strain on memory i dont know. but these are just my ideas.
Well i could go on forever. Ive been playin these types of games for over 8 years and i have so many ideas in my head. If you would like more ideas just let me know.
But please primarily address my issue. thanks
(also how do i edit units and stuff? where is the program? thanks houman your a lot of help)
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
1) Can u add like trade cities for X turns and for X gold/turn ?
This way we can buy/sell cities like British and China did whith Hong-Kong.
2) This is a Total Realism, not freedom of seach or politics forums...
3) Elt3 i in your number 6:. There was a mod like this in older version of TR. It was putting up CPU to 80 degresses, and Windows whining about no Virtual Memory. Many peaple say TR is slow, their team is scrathing their heads and behind to make it run faster and u want to add this ?
4) Ninja cant do terrorist acts now days ?
5)...\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\GameInfo
There is a file named "CIV4WorldInfo.xml". It has knowlage of World sizes. U can use change them whith no crash unless u change Huge map size, and try to launch scenario build on Old Huge map size.
I havent tried to add a new size to make it bigger than Huge map, just to make a completly new World Map for Total Realism that allows Spain to put more than 3 cities !
This how one map looks
<Type>WORLDSIZE_DUEL</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_WORLD_DUEL</Description>
<Help>TXT_KEY_WORLD_DUEL_HELP</Help>
<iDefaultPlayers>2</iDefaultPlayers>
<iUnitNameModifier>50</iUnitNameModifier>
<iTargetNumCities>4</iTargetNumCities>
<iNumFreeBuildingBonuses>1</iNumFreeBuildingBonuses>
<iBuildingClassPrereqModifier>0</iBuildingClassPrereqModifier>
<iMaxConscriptModifier>-50</iMaxConscriptModifier>
<iWarWearinessModifier>50</iWarWearinessModifier>
<iGridWidth>10</iGridWidth>
<iGridHeight>6</iGridHeight>
<iTerrainGrainChange>-1</iTerrainGrainChange>
<iFeatureGrainChange>-1</iFeatureGrainChange>
<iResearchPercent>100</iResearchPercent>
<iTradeProfitPercent>80</iTradeProfitPercent>
<iDistanceMaintenancePercent>50</iDistanceMaintenancePercent>
<iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>45</iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>
<iNumCitiesAnarchyPercent>11</iNumCitiesAnarchyPercent>
This descrbes it size: Not sure how it works as:
Dueal size Huge size:
<iGridWidth>10</iGridWidth> <iGridWidth>32</iGridWidth>
<iGridHeight>6</iGridHeight> <iGridHeight>20</iGridHeight>
I think Huge is bigger than that. Never acctually counted, and main question is title same size as grid ? I tried to play on Random generated map "modified Huge" and set Width to 60 and Hright to 44. Mapw as awsome big, and didnt spot any slowdown in TR. !!! Might consider it in a patch or just try it and see if it really isnt slowing down.
6) download new patch please ;( *sniff*
This way we can buy/sell cities like British and China did whith Hong-Kong.
2) This is a Total Realism, not freedom of seach or politics forums...
3) Elt3 i in your number 6:. There was a mod like this in older version of TR. It was putting up CPU to 80 degresses, and Windows whining about no Virtual Memory
. Many peaple say TR is slow, their team is scrathing their heads and behind to make it run faster and u want to add this ?4) Ninja cant do terrorist acts now days ?
5)...\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\GameInfo
There is a file named "CIV4WorldInfo.xml". It has knowlage of World sizes. U can use change them whith no crash unless u change Huge map size, and try to launch scenario build on Old Huge map size.
I havent tried to add a new size to make it bigger than Huge map, just to make a completly new World Map for Total Realism that allows Spain to put more than 3 cities !
This how one map looks
<Type>WORLDSIZE_DUEL</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_WORLD_DUEL</Description>
<Help>TXT_KEY_WORLD_DUEL_HELP</Help>
<iDefaultPlayers>2</iDefaultPlayers>
<iUnitNameModifier>50</iUnitNameModifier>
<iTargetNumCities>4</iTargetNumCities>
<iNumFreeBuildingBonuses>1</iNumFreeBuildingBonuses>
<iBuildingClassPrereqModifier>0</iBuildingClassPrereqModifier>
<iMaxConscriptModifier>-50</iMaxConscriptModifier>
<iWarWearinessModifier>50</iWarWearinessModifier>
<iGridWidth>10</iGridWidth>
<iGridHeight>6</iGridHeight>
<iTerrainGrainChange>-1</iTerrainGrainChange>
<iFeatureGrainChange>-1</iFeatureGrainChange>
<iResearchPercent>100</iResearchPercent>
<iTradeProfitPercent>80</iTradeProfitPercent>
<iDistanceMaintenancePercent>50</iDistanceMaintenancePercent>
<iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>45</iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>
<iNumCitiesAnarchyPercent>11</iNumCitiesAnarchyPercent>
This descrbes it size: Not sure how it works as:
Dueal size Huge size:
<iGridWidth>10</iGridWidth> <iGridWidth>32</iGridWidth>
<iGridHeight>6</iGridHeight> <iGridHeight>20</iGridHeight>
I think Huge is bigger than that. Never acctually counted, and main question is title same size as grid ? I tried to play on Random generated map "modified Huge" and set Width to 60 and Hright to 44. Mapw as awsome big, and didnt spot any slowdown in TR. !!! Might consider it in a patch or just try it and see if it really isnt slowing down.
6) download new patch please ;( *sniff*
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Uncle Anton said:
I'm also a former soldier (French Armoured Corp) and like you, i'm throwing in my two cents...
Uncle Anton said:Seriously gang, not so serious ok?
I've been pretty much around the world (ie as a tourist - not deployed), and if there's one thing I've learnt it's this - you're gonna find good and bad wherever you go. You're gonna find people who disagree with you, and who you disagree with. You're going to form prejudices, and people are going to form prejudices against you. You're gonna be enlightened (Texans aren't loudmouthed cowboy louts with no manners) and you'll enlighten others (Australians aren't loudmouthed cowboy louts with no manners.... after all, most of us live in cities
Additionally there are going to be things that certain countries have done which are pretty nasty and f#cked up. Likewise, chances are your country (or people if you want to consider your local populace in a non-nationalist framework) has done pretty nasty things too. This is usually the result of individuals working in some likeminded fashion for good or evil in a largely temporary capacity.
How about we all just accept that, remind ourselves that we're here as people linked by common purpose - to play a game which will probably isolate us from everything we otherwise need to pay attention to, such as wives, girlfriends, husbands, boyfriends, work, family and pretty much anything in life that's otherwise worthy of attention, but just ends up getting universally neglected as we continue to pump the digital crack that is Civ 4 into our veins.
Yes !!! you are right (most of the time). You will always find guys you can't agree with... You have to accept that: this is tolerance.
Uncle Anton said:Now... Kiddies? Less with the fighty-fighty... More with the moddy-moddy. The more political talk that happens here, the less time Houman's working on the new release.
Again yes. Let Houman works. As many, i want this mod to be warlords compatible. ASAP.
The Frog.
