[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

[WarKirby]

Don't suppose you could add Scotland as a playable civ? UU obviously highlander, with good hill def. bonus. Many of the 'wild' variants would do for other troops. Leader, Robert the Bruce. Not sure about traits though.

WarKirby

 

[Ankenaton]

A country can and does good and bad, standing up for a country isn't standing up for anything. If you want to stand up for good, then do it, a government acts in self interest, stand to lead your country to good, not to follow other's agenda.

Most arguments do not have exactly 2 sides. This assumption simply leads less than optimal solutions.

I have so many more comments I want to say about everyone's posts. However doing so would take many days. I wish people would stop trying to sound so sure of their position and try to just say what they know really is true. (Or just stay on topic).

Cham

I agree with you completely; governments are in the business of maintenance and projection of "power". They exist along a continuum from republicanism to despotism. Some are more despotic than others, but it has long been my opinion that the rulers have more in common with one another than they do with those that they rule. Maintaining an empire (and whether we like it or not America is an Empire however benign the perception) is never a pretty thing. I would only hope that we all could be a little more honest with ourselves. That includes those within the "empire" and those outside of it. Most of the problems involving the region can be traced back to the decisions made just after WWI with the demise of the Ottoman Empire. England and France could not run fast enough to pick up the pieces of that disbanded empire to divide the remnants between them. Kuwait which was traditionally part of Iraq for generations was lopped off by the British and French and a whole new little pseudo-kingdom was created. It would be similar to the United States losing Florida and parts of Georgia. Not disputing the fact that Saddam was/is a despot, one could realize understand that this touched a patriotic cord in the Iraqi psyche when they invaded. And lest we forget the American ambassador to Iraq basically told the Iraqi foreign minister that the United States had no "strategic interests" and/or military obligations to the territorial defense of Kuwait. What more of a green light can one ask for. When diplomats speak in those terms, it is quite clear to them what the implications are. Another example of diplomatic speak is whenever the United States (or another nuclear power) is engaged in a conflict with another nation, one of the first declarations that are made in the clear is the one where the head of state (or other high-placed official) utters those fateful words "we will retaliate with any and all means at our disposal (e.g.nuclear weapons) if our nation/forces are attacked with chemical/biological weapons and/or any device seeded with radioactive materials (e.g. dirty bomb). Basically the speech means if you use a weapon of mass destruction against "us", you just committed suicide. The nation state has been one of humanity's best "inventions"; it has also been the genesis of some of our worst "nightmares". I think we all play the Civ games for one of perhaps many reasons. We want to lead our chosen nation state to the pinnacle of human expression. I think in this regard that we all share a commonality that can help us understand if not tolerate differing views of the same situation.

 

[Hian the Frog]

I agree with you completely; governments are in the business of maintenance and projection of "power". They exist along a continuum from republicanism to despotism. Some are more despotic than others, but it has long been my opinion that the rulers have more in common with one another than they do with those that they rule. Maintaining an empire (and whether we like it or not America is an Empire however benign the perception) is never a pretty thing. I would only hope that we all could be a little more honest with ourselves. That includes those within the "empire" and those outside of it. Most of the problems involving the region can be traced back to the decisions made just after WWI with the demise of the Ottoman Empire. England and France could not run fast enough to pick up the pieces of that disbanded empire to divide the remnants between them. Kuwait which was traditionally part of Iraq for generations was lopped off by the British and French and a whole new little pseudo-kingdom was created. It would be similar to the United States losing Florida and parts of Georgia. Not disputing the fact that Saddam was/is a despot, one could realize understand that this touched a patriotic cord in the Iraqi psyche when they invaded. And lest we forget the American ambassador to Iraq basically told the Iraqi foreign minister that the United States had no "strategic interests" and/or military obligations to the territorial defense of Kuwait. What more of a green light can one ask for. When diplomats speak in those terms, it is quite clear to them what the implications are. Another example of diplomatic speak is whenever the United States (or another nuclear power) is engaged in a conflict with another nation, one of the first declarations that are made in the clear is the one where the head of state (or other high-placed official) utters those fateful words "we will retaliate with any and all means at our disposal (e.g.nuclear weapons) if our nation/forces are attacked with chemical/biological weapons and/or any device seeded with radioactive materials (e.g. dirty bomb). Basically the speech means if you use a weapon of mass destruction against "us", you just committed suicide. The nation state has been one of humanity's best "inventions"; it has also been the genesis of some of our worst "nightmares". I think we all play the Civ games for one of perhaps many reasons. We want to lead our chosen nation state to the pinnacle of human expression. I think in this regard that we all share a commonality that can help us understand if not tolerate differing views of the same situation.

Hi,

Very very good analysis. I agree with you, even if you are American (bad joke ). You are really right about the "Nation" problem: an "invention" that is our worst "nightmare". Many wars were made under the flag of "nationalism" : those of Napoleon were problably the first and many many were made in the following two centuries (WW I, WW II, Vietnam, Indo-Pakistanese, Crimean War, ....and the list is awesome).
About nuclear weapons. You are also right. As a fromer French soldier, i can tell you that the French attitude toward this weapon is clear and easy to understand. We were invaded three times in 70 years by our neighbor (Germany). Each time, we lose 2 to 3.5 % of our total population (mostly male of course) and billions of destructions (mines, cities, railroads,...). So, when we built our first nuclear weapon at the beginning of the 60's, it was decided that France and its lands around the world would be like a sanctuary, a forbidden palace..... if you cross our frontiers, you would be destroyed. Very primitive doctrine ! But it works...

The Frog.

 

[Anaztazioch]

@ Warkirby
Did Scotland do something "special" in World history ? Like nuke Nagasaki and Hiroshima, be the first one to stop Tatar(Mayby Mongol, but i was told Tatar) invasion on Europe, build some World Wonder, Discover New Land ?

If not it means its pointless, as it will be a lesser civ like Tunise or Brazil.

@ carnivore
Use search button as Dale mod and Speed enchantment were main discusion for some time, and u will find many posts about its progress... Just dont say ur lazy, as This fine team is not shaving just to release this Patch... Its a manner of respect.

 

[Hian the Frog]

@ Warkirby
Did Scotland do something "special" in World history ? Like nuke Nagasaki and Hiroshima, be the first one to stop Tatar(Mayby Mongol, but i was told Tatar) invasion on Europe, build some World Wonder, Discover New Land ?

If not it means its pointless, as it will be a lesser civ like Tunise or Brazil.

@ carnivore
Use search button as Dale mod and Speed enchantment were main discusion for some time, and u will find many posts about its progress... Just dont say ur lazy, as This fine team is not shaving just to release this Patch... Its a manner of respect.

Hi,

Yes. I agree about Scotland. I would rather prefer Portugal or Netherlands. They explored seas and oceans, conquered lands, built empires, increased human knowledges,.... Scotland, even if an old country with a beautifull history, is too much linked with his powerfull neighbor: england.

The Frog.

 

[Houman]

Scotland was and is a colony of England, but it doesn't make them English. They are celtic origin and much older the Anglo-Saxons in this sense. If they were not defeated by England, they might have done something in the histroy who knows.

It is true we have the highlander UU, which will be just sitting there in next version, since we don't have any use for it. The problem of adding a civ is the time factor. Right now there is so much to do with features and stuff, that adding a civ would be a nightmare. But in Walrlards expansion there are the celts which are the origin of Scots and Irish. I recommend playing them.


But one question though, why Robert the Bruce and Not Willam Wallace?

Houmie

 

[Anaztazioch]

@ Houman

Becouse Willam Wallace was played as Mel Gibson, whos anti-jewish and policy forbids us (that is you as well) from making games whith anti-jewish contents

Hope i've benn of any help
Regards

 

[THARN]

@ Houman

Becouse Willam Wallace was played as Mel Gibson, whos anti-jewish and policy forbids us (that is you as well) from making games whith anti-jewish contents

Hope i've benn of any help
Regards

Awww- He's just a devout Catholic and still blames the Jews for killing Jesus, thats all. Give the drunk a break.

 

[WarKirby]

Scotland held its own against various invasion attempts from the English, and when all of england was conquered by the Romans, Scotland resisted sucessfuly. The Roman empire lost its foothold in the south of Scotland and built hadrians wall to contain it.

Robert the Bruce defeated Edward III at the battle of Bannockburn and forced him to sign a treaty recognising Scottish independence under the rule of Robert the Bruce. By contrast, wallace ruled as only as guardian of the realm, somewhat of a caretaker role. He was more of a hero than a a leader and would be more suited to being a great general.

Up until 1707, when the treaty of union was signed, Scotland was an independant nation. Even today it has its own parliament.

I can understand the arguments that scotland was not important enough for inculsion in civ 4. So I ask this instead. Could you change the English empire to the British empire.

It was as britain that we really became a global power. Under King George V in 1921, the British Empire was the largest empire in history. Slighty larger even than Kublai Khan's Mongol Empire

WarKirby

 

[Hian the Frog]

Scotland held its own against various invasion attempts from the English, and when all of england was conquered by the Romans, Scotland resisted sucessfuly. The Roman empire lost its foothold in the south of Scotland and built hadrians wall to contain it.

Robert the Bruce defeated Edward III at the battle of Bannockburn and forced him to sign a treaty recognising Scottish independence under the rule of Robert the Bruce. By contrast, wallace ruled as only as guardian of the realm, somewhat of a caretaker role. He was more of a hero than a a leader and would be more suited to being a great general.

Up until 1707, when the treaty of union was signed, Scotland was an independant nation. Even today it has its own parliament.

I can understand the arguments that scotland was not important enough for inculsion in civ 4. So I ask this instead. Could you change the English empire to the British empire.

It was as britain that we really became a global power. Under King George V in 1921, the British Empire was the largest empire in history. Slighty larger even than Kublai Khan's Mongol Empire

WarKirby

Hi,

I agree with you. I would prefer UK (Kingdoms of Scotland, Kingdom of England, Principality of Wales and North Ireland or Ulster). Furthemore, if i well remember, some of the greatest "british" men and women where Scottish such as Adam Smith....
And it was not Edward III but Edward II, son of Edward I who won the Battle of Falkirk. Edward II was weak, more interested by his male friends, a very poor general.... whereas Edward III was the King that began the Hundred Years War. A great King: a good administrator, a very strong diplomat, but a mid-level general. The best thing is did for his army was to be the first in Europe to built a permanent army made of "common" people, trained to use the powerfull Welsh longbow, instead of still using only knights and poor trained infantry (as we did in France for the result we know.... defaet at Crecy and Poitiers )

The Frog.

 

[Los Tirano]

Ah, so it was Edward III that introduced that very smart law where all peasants had to learn how to use the welsh longbow from an early age. Very smart indeed, and it sure paid off.

I read a few years ago in a history of warfare book that the French implemented a similar law, but it was abandoned when the nobles became very worried at the dramatic increase in the numbers and abilities of skilled peasant archers. They should have trusted their people more.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Ah, so it was Edward III that introduced that very smart law where all peasants had to learn how to use the welsh longbow from an early age. Very smart indeed, and it sure paid off.

I read a few years ago in a history of warfare book that the French implemented a similar law, but it was abandoned when the nobles became very worried at the dramatic increase in the numbers and abilities of skilled peasant archers. They should have trusted their people more.

Hi Los Tirano,

Yes you are right. In fact the two countries implemented this law nearly at the same time.

Edward I, grand father of Edward III, conquered Wales but met great problems figthing the Welsh guerrilla warfare. So, to control the countriside he built huge castles (you can still see some of them, they are beautifull) and began a typical anti-guerilla warfare: controling countrisides, burning villages, killing peasants,...and to the end succeded in destroying the remnants of the Welsh Warriors. He was so impressed that he ordered all Nobles and rich Merchants that possess lands to train their peoples to Longbow and implemented a law that forbid all hazard games (cards, dices,...) unless archery. As you can imagine it took years before a good training. But when wars came again (and still versus France) an army was ready... The King has just to order his feudals to sent troops (and after to pay them). Edward III upgraded this system by creating a true permanent army made of 8000 of this guys... This number seems low but it was awesome at that time and more for England which has only 6 -7 millions inhabitants.

In my country (France), it was hard times. Three Kings in 15 years (the 3 brothers Louis X, Philippe V and Charles IV, sons of the Philippe IV the Beautifull) They were all among our worst Kings. With so many unpopular and wake Kings in a short time, the Nobility reaction was strong. Most of the progressive laws made by their father were abolished under pressure, as the permanent army law.... And, to finish, the dynasty (of Capet) ended and the new one (of Valois) began with two Kings (Philippe VI and Jean II the Good)that were more looking to the glorious past of Chivalry instead of training a modern army... They were courageous, proud but low minded, poor administrator, poor tactician and poorer stratege... We will have to wait for more than 120 years (and 3 terrible defeats) to create our own permanent army. This "modern" army was created by Charles VII the Victorious and was the first to use gunpowder artillery as a fire weapon at the Battle of Castellon (1453) which settled the fate of the english army in France and ended the Hundred Years War.

The Frog.

 

[Spartan117]

adding new civs, will lead to a no end of what civs should be added and also make it more difficult to make ethnic units i would think not to mention balance..

but adding new civs is a cool idea

ha ha i am a king in posting number 600 or is that a bad thing

 

[Houman]

Interesting history lessons here.

Good idea actually adding William Wallace as Great General for the Celts. Shouldn't we change English longbowmen to Welish Longbowmen?

As Spartan aslready mentioned it correctly, new civ means new spot on the map, new balancing problem, new diverse units etc. no worries Warlords has plenty of new Civilizations.

Regards
Houman

 

[Los Tirano]

No, they were english longbowmen alright. They just adopted the powerful welsh longbow, from the welsh they had vanquished. The armies of peasants that were trained in its use were english (mostly).

 

[MindProphetX]

Is there an official release date for either the Civ Vanilla version or Warlords version yet?

 

[Spartan117]

dont forget to add more ethnic units.(rabbit whites mod)....

what mod components are goin to be added besides dale's combat mod?

 

[Houman]

Civ: Total Realism this weekend for sure.
The status is that The Ranged Bombardment + many enhancement by our genius Mexico has already been accomplished and is now in the test phase. Once this is stable we publish it and convert this functionality to Warlords.

Warlords: Total Realism maybe next weekend.
The status of Warlord conversion is right now almost complete. Mexico will take care of the SDK. XML is finished and Python is almost complete. We had only big trouble with the Screen interface Python modifications, since no one here is good at them. And 12Monkey as some might know has retired from Civ (for now).

Fortunatelly Lopez came us to our help and converted the very difficult PlotList 2.03. But There is still the Military Advisor and ForeignAdvisor (12Monkey version) that need to be converted. The Lopez is very busy with his new baby. I can't ask the poor guy for more work. So we are a bit stuck right now.

But beside these 2 files, the Warlords Conversion is complete.

I have now to fine tune and do some bug fixes for the time being. There were plans to implement the Great Doctor Mod (since the Great General Mod in the city has been finally removed) But this might have to wait for the next patch. Meanwhile I will also inplement new units from Diverse Units, Mirage, Indian Units and make a Persian Spearman...What else in going there? Well many things that are normal for us meanwhile but we never published them. Like tons of new war helicopters and transport helicopters that can fly over water?

Houmie

 

[crismac]

Civ: Total Realism this weekend for sure.
The status is that The Ranged Bombardment + many enhancement by our genius Mexico has already been accomplished and is now in the test phase. Once this is stable we publish it and convert this functionality to Warlords.

I am scheduled to work all weekend,but I got into trouble for a rules violation and could be suspended for a few days.I don't know if I should feel good or bad about that .If it happens,I will have the whole weekend to play the new patch

 

[Hian the Frog]

Civ: Total Realism this weekend for sure.
The status is that The Ranged Bombardment + many enhancement by our genius Mexico has already been accomplished and is now in the test phase. Once this is stable we publish it and convert this functionality to Warlords.

Warlords: Total Realism maybe next weekend.
The status of Warlord conversion is right now almost complete. Mexico will take care of the SDK. XML is finished and Python is almost complete. We had only big trouble with the Screen interface Python modifications, since no one here is good at them. And 12Monkey as some might know has retired from Civ (for now).

Fortunatelly Lopez came us to our help and converted the very difficult PlotList 2.03. But There is still the Military Advisor and ForeignAdvisor (12Monkey version) that need to be converted. The Lopez is very busy with his new baby. I can't ask the poor guy for more work. So we are a bit stuck right now.

But beside these 2 files, the Warlords Conversion is complete.

I have now to fine tune and do some bug fixes for the time being. There were plans to implement the Great Doctor Mod (since the Great General Mod in the city has been finally removed) But this might have to wait for the next patch. Meanwhile I will also inplement new units from Diverse Units, Mirage, Indian Units and make a Persian Spearman...What else in going there? Well many things that are normal for us meanwhile but we never published them. Like tons of new war helicopters and transport helicopters that can fly over water?

Houmie

Hi Houman,

That's seems good !!! Now that i play only with warlords, i will have to wait for two weeks... But what is two weeks of waiting if the job is well made with no bug, and the same pleasure as vanilla. Isn't it ?

The Frog.