[Mod] True Culture Location and Territory Naming for the Giant Earth Map

[Gedemon]

surely, but I've not looked where it's changed in the code yet

 

[Tigranes]

I'm setting a few other Cultures to be able to be picked by multiple players, with multiple possible "starting territory".

So far I have:

• Assyria, not locked by any territory, backup Culture for the first Era if a player/AI still hasn't controlled an "unlocking territory" after collecting 50 knowledge Stars (will need to scale that with game speed)
• Celts (British Islands, France, NW Spain)
• Norse (Scandinavia, except Denmark which is attached to "Germany" territory)
• Goths (SE Sweden, "Poland", "Ukraine")

Should there be others ?

Greeks can be a very fitting addition to that list, given the Diadochi

 

[Gedemon]

There are a few options I'd like to explore to prevent multiple AIs using the backup cultures. I've not looked at the code yet, so those are just ideas at this point.

• Option to automatically place an outpost on the spawn position. maybe the simplest to implement, but won't solve the issue on map with more than 6 players.
• Change the AI weighting for settling territories, with higher factor for territories unlocking Cultures, extra coding would be to link that weighting to the Culture selection calculation. Still won't solve the more than 6 players issue for the initial Era.
• Only spawn 6 players at the beginning of the game, even for the 8-10 players version of the map, then spawn the additional players in later era if there are territories unlocking cultures not settled yet, or if a player chose to pick a new culture and generate a split with the old Empire. No idea how the game would handle dead/resurrected players, so maybe not as simple as it sound. Extra coding would be to try to load the game with more than 10 Empires for more options as the game advance.
• Adding new Cultures, but I suppose it would be much easier once the tools are out, so I'll patiently wait for them

 

[Tigranes]

Currently the most struggling player is the proto-Norse one. Gets always bullied either by Babylon player who unlocks Hittites or by Mycenian player. By the way, I never see Egypt or Babylon, AI never settles there which is very ahistorical. I suggest moving Babylonian start to Syria, it will ensure more diverse outcomes as AI has to move around until it has enough influence for the first outpost.

Backup culture is not so bad as long as AI eventually finds its way to other cultures. The new mod by AOM can help AI make more choices. Multiple Mongols fighting each other is pretty historical. But 2-3 plyers staying Assyrian until Contemporary era really bugs me.

It would be very interesting and realistic to see a selected player skip Ancient era and go to Classical from Neolithic tribe with all the Ancient techs given for free. Norse player can become Goths and North China/Mongolia player can become Huns. Not sure if you can implement that.

 

[Gedemon]

It would be very interesting and realistic to see a selected player skip Ancient era and go to Classical from Neolithic tribe with all the Ancient techs given for free. Norse player can become Goths and North China/Mongolia player can become Huns. Not sure if you can implement that.

Yes that's kind of the 3rd option in my previous post.

Started to explore that path, with an available player pool for unpicked Cultures...

Spoiler ... and that's promising ! :

 

[Gedemon]

I had to hack a bit into the code as the current map format doesn't seem to allow more than 10 starting positions even when directly editing the file (like we did to raise the number from 8 to 10), but I've finally managed to spawn 16 players on the Giant Earth Map.

Took me a bit of time, so I've not started to look at some code to allow the AI to move directly from Neolithic to Classical or Medieval, but I assume it should not be a problem to make it an automatic spawn (if the territory has no owner for example, or from an Empire split) with a boost in production/influence/techs etc...

Which mean we'll remove the "backup" culture (except for the human players) and left some of the AI being nomadic tribes for a few eras.

I think that I'll keep the previous versions of the map (6-8-10 players), but the choice for the number of total Empire will be "map default" (6-8-10) or between 11 to 16. Now I wonder where to put the extra starting positions for each map when using extra slots. I assume for example that using the 6 players map would mean that one want to have some free space around him.

edit: players 11 to 16 would always have the same position, what would change (or not) are slots 7-10 on the 6 player map, and slots 9-10 on the 8 players map

I also still plan to add the option to automatically spawn an outpost on the starting position to "force" some cultures to be selected. Meaning we could have a version with 10 players reserving the 10 initial cultures, and 6 extra nomadic tribes. But the Middle-East would be very crowded on such a setting (and Assyria would move to Syria)

I don't know if there should be 2 or 3 starting plots in the Americas.

Based on a comment on mod.io, I also ponder limiting future Culture choices by starting continent (as the game is already tracking that parameter), in such a setting "native American tribes" could not be picked by players starting in the "Old World".

 

[Tigranes]

I don't see inherent problem with the Middle East super-crowding. After all, that was the reason Babylonians and Hittites did not survive to Classical Age in real life. Will be fun to see which culture will survive (hopefully something random every game). It's better to place Assyrians in Armenia, north of Babylon as they supposed to be. Syria was always changing hands between Egypt, Hittites, Assyrians and Babylonians in Ancient Era.

Before we go adding more cultures I suggest to balance existing model. Right now territory loosing mongol empires generate enormous amount barbarian units carpet covering the map.

 

[Gedemon]

Before we go adding more cultures I suggest to balance existing model. Right now territory loosing mongol empires generate enormous amount barbarian units carpet covering the map.

they would not if those territories were given to one of the extra empire from the nomades pool instead.

 

[smartclick20]

Territory loss: None
that happen

 

[Gedemon]

could you post the save from the turn before please

 

[smartclick20]

sure

 

[Gedemon]

ha, there may be another issue making me not loading the correct slot...

Spoiler :

 

[NombreyApellido]

i had a blast with TCL, AOM's Choose Starting era and bhktools all three combined... i slightly edited the spawn points for the 8 player version (set olmecs in mesoamerica in liu of proto norse and nubians moved well to the south, at the cape but they became assyrians) and then manually set up all the factions with ancient cultures to skip the neolithic

then as the egyptians, i spent most of the ancient era 80 turns warring hittites>huns AND harappans to the west and allied assyrians + phoenicians>cartaginians on the other front

took advantage of the many units the hurrians were renting me and got to build both Giza and Stonehenge, the latter was claimed and placed by the maritime merchants but never built

overstayed 2 turns more than it took me to unlock the full set of stars just to finish a couple more pyramids for the next era as the achaemenid empire that i plan to continue the next couple of days

 

[Phor]

Started playing the newest version. I feel aššured that this is going to be fun play.

Spoiler :

I did not expected Harappan player will also aššur me though

Thank you for all the work put into the True Location maps in Civ 4, 5, 6 and Humankind. Your (and Rhye's) works are always a masterpiece and a must-have for me.

 

[Gedemon]

progress report

Spoiler :

 

[Tigranes]

Looks lovely! Is there any way to push Hittites to the Anatolia instead of Armenia?

 

[Gedemon]

I think Hattusha and Kanesh would not be in the same territory then (see the map's thread for the split of Anatolia/Armenia in 3 regions, I've moved some posts), the whole Kızılırmak river is in the green territory.

 

[Tigranes]

I think Hattusha and Kanesh would not be in the same territory then (see the map's thread for the split of Anatolia/Armenia in 3 regions, I've moved some posts), the whole Kızılırmak river is in the green territory.

The most important fact is the location of the capital. It is clearly in Anatolia. We cannot be very precise. Plus, its better to border Mycenians who cannot immediately attack across the Straights.

 

[Phor]

In the meantime... I think I found something... peculiar.

I started a game in version 1.1.0.1 10p Old World and well... it turns players not destined by location to play Assur must be very fast about choosing their culture for now. I had a situation in which "Rome Player" (slot 10) got Phoenicians and forced "Carthago Player" (slot 4) to play as Assyrians. I don't know if that was expected...

I know that things will be solved eventually in the future with additional cultures to cover a whole globe and I saw on this topic, that some ideas are already being discussed.

 

[Gedemon]

The most important fact is the location of the capital. It is clearly in Anatolia. We cannot be very precise. Plus, its better to border Mycenians who cannot immediately attack across the Straights.

the capital isn't Hattusa ?

there is a rotation of the SN axis in the region, it's oriented SW-NE (see Persian, Caspian and Black seas)

Maybe I could redraw (again) the Kızılırmak river to move the loop a tile more to the west, and Hattusa position at the same time, but most of the core Empire would still be in the green territory.

And from a gameplay perspective, the west territory has only one possible direction for expansion, the current starting position, while the later has 3 (+1 with assured war, but we've agreed before that war in that area in the Ancient era was not a bad thing historically, or we won't have 3 Cultures from the 10 possible in the Ancient era each game...)

In the meantime... I think I found something... peculiar.

I started a game in version 1.1.0.1 10p Old World and well... it turns players not destined by location to play Assur must be very fast about choosing their culture for now. I had a situation in which "Rome Player" (slot 10) got Phoenicians and forced "Carthago Player" (slot 4) to play as Assyrians. I don't know if that was expected...

I know that things will be solved eventually in the future with additional cultures to cover a whole globe and I saw on this topic, that some ideas are already being discussed.

Phoenicia should be available to multiple Empires, if "slot 4" use Assyrians that would mean the AI didn't settle in Carthage's territory.