[Mod] True Culture Location and Territory Naming for the Giant Earth Map

[Gedemon]

yes, default map locations... i don't think it'll be a problem for human players since they can move it latter on but i haven't seen the AI do this ever. having said this, i think most people would prefer a better initial location, ie not loosing half the footprint to a border... if this goes against the idea of a true location, then perhaps a different territory or a revision to the territory limits could be an option to consider

--

re: proto cultures. how do you feel about yamnaya culture instead of proto european?

yep, the map's starting positions were not updated with the territory change, I'll try to edit that with the resources changes that are discussed.

about proto-culture, that's not really my expertise, so I'll just give some food for thought for you guys

Spoiler BuildingVisualAffinity :

BuildingVisualAffinity_Era0_DefaultTribe
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era1_Assyria
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era1_Babylon
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era1_EgyptianKingdom
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era1_HarappanCivilization
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era1_HittiteEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era1_MycenaeanCivilization
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era1_Nubia
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era1_OlmecCivilization
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era1_Phoenicia
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era1_ZhouChina
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era2_AksumiteEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era2_AncientGreece
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era2_Carthage
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era2_CelticCivilization
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era2_Goths
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era2_Huns
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era2_MauryaEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era2_MayaCivilization
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era2_Persia
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era2_RomanEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era3_AztecEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era3_Byzantium
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era3_FrankishKingdom
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era3_GhanaEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era3_HolyRomanEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era3_KhmerEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era3_MedievalEngland
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era3_MongolEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era3_UmayyadCaliphate
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era3_Vikings
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era4_Holland
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era4_IroquoisConfederacy
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era4_JoseonKorea
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era4_MingChina
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era4_MughalEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era4_OttomanEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era4_PolishKingdom
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era4_Spain
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era4_TokugawaShogunate
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era4_VenetianRepublic
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era5_AsfsharidPersia
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era5_AustriaHungary
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era5_BritishEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era5_FrenchRepublic
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era5_Germany
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era5_Italy
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era5_Mexico
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era5_RussianEmpire
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era5_Siam
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era5_ZuluKingdom
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era6_Australia
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era6_Brazil
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era6_China
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era6_Egypt
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era6_India
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era6_Japan
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era6_Sweden
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era6_Turkey
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era6_USA
BuildingVisualAffinity_Era6_USSR
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_American
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Asian
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_AsianPacific
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_AsianSouthEastMedieval
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_AsianSouthEastModern
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Baroque
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_BaroqueAlternative
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Colorful
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Eastern
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_GrecoRoman
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Herrerian
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Islamic
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Mediterranean
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Mesoamerican
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Mesopotamian
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Mesopotamian_Alternative
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Mix_MediterraneanIslamic
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Mix_MesoamericanAmerican
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Mix_MesopotamianMediterranean
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Mix_RomanesqueBaroque
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Mix_SinicAsian
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_MudHut
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Nomadic
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Northern
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Romanesque
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Sinic
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Western
BuildingVisualAffinity_Common_Wooden
BuildingVisualAffinity_NoVisualAffinity

Spoiler UnitVisualAffinity :

UnitVisualAffinity_Era0_Animals
UnitVisualAffinity_Era1_Assyria
UnitVisualAffinity_Era1_Babylon
UnitVisualAffinity_Era1_EgyptianKingdom
UnitVisualAffinity_Era1_HarappanCivilization
UnitVisualAffinity_Era1_HittiteEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era1_MycenaeanCivilization
UnitVisualAffinity_Era1_Nubia
UnitVisualAffinity_Era1_OlmecCivilization
UnitVisualAffinity_Era1_Phoenicia
UnitVisualAffinity_Era1_ZhouChina
UnitVisualAffinity_Era2_AksumiteEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era2_AncientGreece
UnitVisualAffinity_Era2_Carthage
UnitVisualAffinity_Era2_CelticCivilization
UnitVisualAffinity_Era2_Goths
UnitVisualAffinity_Era2_Huns
UnitVisualAffinity_Era2_MauryaEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era2_MayaCivilization
UnitVisualAffinity_Era2_Persia
UnitVisualAffinity_Era2_RomanEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era3_AztecEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era3_Byzantium
UnitVisualAffinity_Era3_FrankishKingdom
UnitVisualAffinity_Era3_GhanaEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era3_HolyRomanEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era3_KhmerEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era3_MedievalEngland
UnitVisualAffinity_Era3_MongolEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era3_UmayyadCaliphate
UnitVisualAffinity_Era3_Vikings
UnitVisualAffinity_Era4_Holland
UnitVisualAffinity_Era4_IroquoisConfederacy
UnitVisualAffinity_Era4_JoseonKorea
UnitVisualAffinity_Era4_MingChina
UnitVisualAffinity_Era4_MughalEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era4_OttomanEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era4_PolishKingdom
UnitVisualAffinity_Era4_Spain
UnitVisualAffinity_Era4_TokugawaShogunate
UnitVisualAffinity_Era4_VenetianRepublic
UnitVisualAffinity_Era5_AfsharidPersia
UnitVisualAffinity_Era5_AustriaHungary
UnitVisualAffinity_Era5_BritishEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era5_FrenchRepublic
UnitVisualAffinity_Era5_Germany
UnitVisualAffinity_Era5_Italy
UnitVisualAffinity_Era5_Mexico
UnitVisualAffinity_Era5_RussianEmpire
UnitVisualAffinity_Era5_Siam
UnitVisualAffinity_Era5_ZuluKingdom
UnitVisualAffinity_Era6_Australia
UnitVisualAffinity_Era6_Brazil
UnitVisualAffinity_Era6_China
UnitVisualAffinity_Era6_Egypt
UnitVisualAffinity_Era6_India
UnitVisualAffinity_Era6_Japan
UnitVisualAffinity_Era6_Sweden
UnitVisualAffinity_Era6_Turkey
UnitVisualAffinity_Era6_USA
UnitVisualAffinity_Era6_USSR
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era0_DefaultTribe
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era0_Northern
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era0_Southern
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era0_Temperate
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era1_Cold
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era1_Hot
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era1_Temperate
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era2_Asian
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era2_European
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era2_Mediterranean
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era2_Mesoamerican
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era3_American
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era3_Asian
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era3_GrecoRoman
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era3_Mediterranean
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era3_Northern
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era4_Asian
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era4_Eastern
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era4_European
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era5_Asian
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era5_Eastern
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era5_European
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era6_Forest
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era6_Sand
UnitVisualAffinity_Common_Era6_Snow

 

[Gedemon]

usual hotfix...

- fix a bug when a settlement requires to be evolved into a city before becoming a Capital
- prevent minor factions to spawn an outpost in a territory where a major empire is already building an outpost
- add more log output to track possible bug during transition

 

[FoxFox]

Great mod!

I can confirm the game (version in post above) won't load with FoW disabled in multiplayer.

It also gets stuck in "Turn pending" around turn 15-18 in Blitz speed. Seems to occur when an Empire gets split into liege/vassal upon entering the classical era. In my last game the Mycenaeans spawned a new faction called "Nomadic tribe" in the tooltip, but Mycenaeans in the diplomacy screen. The new faction had no territory or units and the original Mycenaeans did not adopt a new culture as the game got stuck.

Note on starting locations: I know the Middle East is full as it is, but the Phoenicians' starting region is really Syria. Though I understand the choice to have them start in Carthage anyway. The Harappans belong in Indus (they are the Indus Valley Civilisation after all).

 

[Gedemon]

Thanks, I'll move the Harrapans start. About starting positions, if you guys think you've found the perfect spot in a region, let us know, I think we may be able to distract SeelinCat long enough with Empire, Avatar and City names to prevent him to reshape the territories again (jk oc, many, many thanks again for that !)

about getting stuck, it may be strange to read, but sometime I'm frustrated when the game doesn't hang !

I mean twice now I had hangs that pointed to the mod from the logs, twice I added new log entries to pinpoint the problem without changing anything in the code's logic, twice the problem disappeared when reloading the previous turn save... So random problems may still occur.

But I've also fixed a few real (ie reproducible) issues, a 10 Old World players start with 6 additional AI players available on split and all territories not owned by the new Culture lost is a good background for testing various combinations...

I'll try to post a new version this evening.

 

[Gedemon]

The story so far: I've started Babylonian, was quickly surrounded by Egyptians, Assyrians and Hittites territory while only managing to get 2 scouts in my area, that start was a bit complicated !

Luckily when the Assyrian evolved to form the Huns Empire, the new leader of the old Empire was friendly and I survived long enough to evolve into the Persians, leaving behind a Babylonian city to a minor faction, and I managed to avoid Huns cavalry to settle in the north then evolved into Mongols. The new leader of my old Persian Empire was the initial leader of the Hittites (who evolved into Goths but was wiped out by the Huns...), which allowed me to debug the issues when resurrecting a dead player (next version will use all "sleeping" players before starting to resurrect "dead" players)

Sadly the second Phoenician Empire didn't evolve into the Romans, that would have made this map near perfect.

Also the player I've resurrected to become my vassal has more Fame than me, I'll add a check to prevent that case (only resurrect someone who has less fame) to try to limit possible exploits.

Spoiler :

 

[NombreyApellido]

starting positions can be tricky in the sense that "perfect" may go against True Location... for instance, in previous version of TCL i placed Memphis on the wrong bank of the nile and babylon far up the north to push for industry yields. i don't mind precise placement but i can see that other players could so my vote goes to keep the initial outpost as realistic as possible and if the player prefers to optimize, it can be moved around paying INF

just my 2 denarii

 

[Gedemon]

right, let's take this the other way and look at the "capital positions" and determine which one should be buffed with bonus features.

 

[FoxFox]

Silly question maybe: What's the easiest way to see tile coordinates?

Is this about just the 10 starting positions for the Ancient cultures?

 

[Gedemon]

a few bug fix in the new alpha

- bug fix: check for an unexpected missing method interrupting the Era transition
- bug fix: reset the alive state of dead players when re-using them to take over an old Empire territory
- bug fix: reset diplomatic relation of resurrected players
- use all "sleeping" players before starting resurrecting people
- do not resurrect a dead player that has more fame than his future liege
- add "Kiangnanum" to "Ming China" and "China" territory list
- add "Tomium" to "Mongols" territory list

 

[NombreyApellido]

one way is to load the map on bhktools. it starts at 0,0 in the top left corner. you can have a rough idea of several location looking at spawn points and moving them

another is to use a no fog method and to find the prime meridian for x and simply counting rows

--

i had a crash and ragequitted after 78 turns with the last alpha as nubians>aksumites. it wasn't related to the mod itself though, firefox crashed and it took the game with it, something about accelerated gfx i suppose

anyway, no other faction choose a new culture and only got to find elamites even though i had a good look at the map because i went full international commerce. found 7 majors, no one fell so i guess it's ok if i didn't get to see a new major

in terms of balance, i feel africa is quite there considering the cultures that it spawns: both egyptian and nubians have their IND bonuses impact reduced because of terrain. phoenicians do struggle but perhaps it can be boosted by persona bonuses now that we can have them tailored specifically for a given slot

i forgot to activate the loss of terrain option and only realized when about to jumping to classical... will try it again tonight because i want to check out the new confirmation menu about the losses and their compensation system

 

[Gedemon]

Silly question maybe: What's the easiest way to see tile coordinates?

Is this about just the 10 starting positions for the Ancient cultures?

I'd like to have an easy way.

Yes there is BHKMAP, but I think the Y values are inverted (compared to what civ6 and HK use internally), you need to do (93-Y) to get the row value to set in the map file (or for me to hardcode in the plugin)

It's for the Ancient cultures, yes, with an extra position for "Rome" with the Old World Start (but that position is already a bit buffed), and a Sweden and Urals positions for the standard 8 players version of the map.

 

[Gedemon]

Surprise !

Spoiler :

The Zhou have evolved into the Ming, leaving the South Asia to a new player, and then that new player evolved into the Khmer, spawning another new player for the Zhou...

Great, yes ?

Except that the game don't like dealing with a vassal of a vassal, so another hotfix incoming...

 

[Gedemon]

so hotfix of the hotfix of the...

- allows Huns and Mongols to evolve without requiring them to have a City on the next Culture territory
- when evolving, if an Empire is the vassal of another, the new player is set as a new vassal of the liege, not a vassal of the vassal

 

[FoxFox]

So here are some suggestions for spawn points. Hope I did the spoiler thing right (I'll edit it if I didn't).

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Some notes:
- I placed Memphis on the luxury deposit. It could be placed next to it on the west/left.
- The Urals starting point is based on the Sinthashta culture. It's the earliest site where chariots were found and it seems a mixture between Indo-Iranian and steppe cultures, both genetically and technologically. So it could be considered ancestral to Persia, Maurya and Huns. The Hittites would be a fitting "clone" culture for them.
- The Scandinavian SP could also be placed in Denmark (Nordic Bronze age) or Central Europe (Italo-Celtic/Hallstatt/Urnfield/Tumulus cultures)

Unrelated, but the Indus territory currently lacks access to the open sea - it has ocean tiles, but both adjacent land territories have ocean tiles that surround those.

EDIT:
- I placed the Phoenicians at the Carthage region. Their true SP would be Syria, at bhkmap coordinates (36,40)

 

[Gedemon]

how are coastal starts from a gameplay perspective ?

 

[Gedemon]

The 3rd leader of the Zhou evolved into another Mongols empire !

But there is no free Major Empire slot left now, the dead Goths have already been revived when the "European Phoenicians" evolved into "Venetians", so what's left of the initial Zhou Empire is now a minor faction.

Spoiler :

 

[NombreyApellido]

quick one: are alternate start points editable too? or are they locked in the dll?

 

[FoxFox]

how are coastal starts from a gameplay perspective ?

Good question, I don't know TBH. If it's bad, most SPs can be easily moved a hex. The only problematic one would be Mykene. It should be just south of Corinth, but the nearest non-coastal tile is way off - Orchomenos or Iolcos would be better names for a city in that spot.

 

[NombreyApellido]

coastal cities have been discussed since forever because their footprint isn't as productive as inland ones... hopefully mods will allows us to buff coastal tiles for maritime cultures someday

phoenicians would do great with this plus being able to build their haven without a tech requirement

 

[Gedemon]

Good question, I don't know TBH. If it's bad, most SPs can be easily moved a hex. The only problematic one would be Mykene. It should be just south of Corinth, but the nearest non-coastal tile is way off - Orchomenos or Iolcos would be better names for a city in that spot.

you can assume auto-city renaming by position at some point.