[MODCOMP] Great Statesman

[edboltz]

Is there a way to load this Mod and the Great General Amped Mod at the same time?

If not can you combine them?

 

[TheLopez]

Well right now there is the Great Specialist mod that combines both of these plus more, though it is not updated with the latest versions of my released mod components. If people want to see an updated version of the Great Specialist mod let me know in that thread.

 

[OzzyKP]

Good mod, and I like the current functions of the statesman.

I think big changes need to be made in the generation of great statesmen though. Allowing a statesman to be placed with the palace is unbalancing. The earliest way to generate GPP right now is building a temple (and placing a priest), building a library (and placing a scientist), or building a wonder. Allowing GPP to be generated from turn 1 is very unbalancing. Some of the other things seem inappropriate as well. Let me supply a list of suggestions:

- The following buildings now provide points towards generating a great
statesman (this section seems perfect to me):
- Forbidden Palace (2)
- Versailles (2)
- Mt. Rushmore (1)
- Kremlin (2)
- Pentagon (2)
- United Nations (2)

- The following buildings now allow the citizens to be specialized as
statesmen:
- Courthouse (2)

- The following buildings now provide free statesmen:
- Forbidden Palace (1)
- Versailles (1)

I think that is much more balanced with the rest of the game and other specialists. I see a lot of overpowered mods on this forum, and I know people are partial to their own creations, but they need to fit in seemlessly with the rest of the game I think.

Another possibility is giving out one or two free statesman specialists in the capitol when the bureaucracy civic is used.

 

[OzzyKP]

Another thought for a Great Statesman specialist is instead of just a straight 4 production, make it 2 production and -25% maintenance costs for the city. The maintenance bonus would stack. It seems to be a purpose more fitting with the idea of a Statesman, and certainly something that would be useful for all of us looking to cut maintenance costs.

Also while I was making suggestions in the last post to nerf the GS, I think the benefits of a regular statesman specialist seems a bit weak. If its basically turning 2 gold into 1 production, then why would someone use that over just a basic citizen who makes 1 production without any gold loss?

Based on the idea of the GS specialist I suggested above, how about just a weakened version of that? A regular statesman specialist gives 1 production and -10% city maintenence, stackable with the courthouse and everything else.

 

[TheLopez]

Good mod, and I like the current functions of the statesman.

Thanks

I think big changes need to be made in the generation of great statesmen though. Allowing a statesman to be placed with the palace is unbalancing. The earliest way to generate GPP right now is building a temple (and placing a priest), building a library (and placing a scientist), or building a wonder. Allowing GPP to be generated from turn 1 is very unbalancing.

Good point.

Some of the other things seem inappropriate as well. Let me supply a list of suggestions:

- The following buildings now provide points towards generating a great
statesman (this section seems perfect to me):
- Forbidden Palace (2)
- Versailles (2)
- Mt. Rushmore (1)
- Kremlin (2)
- Pentagon (2)
- United Nations (2)

How is this any different than what is there now?

- The following buildings now allow the citizens to be specialized as
statesmen:
- Courthouse (2)

Hmmm.... why not any of the palaces that are wonders? Or the United Nations? I can maybe understand taking out Mt. Rushmore, Kremlin and Pentagon.

- The following buildings now provide free statesmen:
- Forbidden Palace (1)
- Versailles (1)

Hmmm.... I don't think I agree with this. Why not the United Nations? It is full of statemen, same with the Pentagon and Kremlin.

Another possibility is giving out one or two free statesman specialists in the capitol when the bureaucracy civic is used.

This is a brillent idea. This will definately be in the next version of the mod.

Also while I was making suggestions in the last post to nerf the GS, I think the benefits of a regular statesman specialist seems a bit weak. If its basically turning 2 gold into 1 production, then why would someone use that over just a basic citizen who makes 1 production without any gold loss?

Because stateman specialists also give GPP, citizens do not.

Based on the idea of the GS specialist I suggested above, how about just a weakened version of that? A regular statesman specialist gives 1 production and -10% city maintenence, stackable with the courthouse and everything else.

I like this idea. I'll update the mod when I am done with my current mod component.

Thanks for all your feedback OzzyKP.

 

[OzzyKP]

How is this any different than what is there now?

It isn't, if you see my note I said that you had it perfect to start with.

Hmmm.... why not any of the palaces that are wonders? Or the United Nations? I can maybe understand taking out Mt. Rushmore, Kremlin and Pentagon.

My thought was just that if the forbidden palace and versailles is providing a free statesman, then there isn't much need to allow them to place an additional one. Though I'd probably be more supportive of not having any buildings give out free specialists and then have the forbidden palace and versailles allow adding 2 statesmen specialists. Plus all the wonders you've listed will be giving out their own GSP anyways, so I"m just trying to have it stay in keeping with other wonders in the game. So yea, I'd rather allow placement for forbidden palace and versailles then giving out free specialists. And UN could definitely be included in that as well.

Hmmm.... I don't think I agree with this. Why not the United Nations? It is full of statemen, same with the Pentagon and Kremlin.

Oh certainly it makes sense historically. Just like universities are full of researchers and should provide free scientists, but thats not how the game works. Off the top of my head I can think of only one wonder or building in the entire game that gives free specialists, and thats the Great Library. So having like 4 or 5 buildings that give out free specialists seems like a massive change to the game.

This is a brillent idea. This will definately be in the next version of the mod.

Thanks

Because stateman specialists also give GPP, citizens do not.

I know. Even so though, merchants, scientists, artists, etc all give decent bonuses over and above what a citizen provides and gives out GPP. I think the statesman specialist should be equal to the others.

I like this idea. I'll update the mod when I am done with my current mod component.

Cool.

I'm not a modder though (or at least haven't been since Civ2), so I don't know if this is possible. If it is, it'd be great to see.

Thanks for all your feedback OzzyKP.

Yup, just trying to help and achieve that ever ellusive quest for balance.

 

[TheLopez]

Last pre v1.61 patch update.

 

[TheLopez]

Updated all code to be compatible with the v1.61 patch!

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

With the SDK is should be possible for specialists to get new types of Yield and for these to be used to make the newer specialist types more focused. My thoughts

Health (Doctors), Happiness (Priests), Raw Commerce (Statesman), Experience (Soldiars). Note that Experince would have to be doled out slowly to units after they are built, some people have already made some pyton mods along these lines.

 

[TheLopez]

You are correct, you can do new yields for the different specialists... In fact I have done it for the doctors. There is one problem though, I cannot get the happiness/unhappiness icon to show... well, that's not exactly true. I can hack-up the code to do it but it's not the right thing to do...

I just need more time to find the right way to do it...

 

[Jaca]

Have not played your mod yet TheLopez, but was browsing through the modpacks and I very much like the idea of having a specialist per civic trait, and so believe both the Great Doctor and the Great Statesman are excellent suggestions. Personally I was mostly charmed by one of Chalid's suggestions (which basically makes the Great Statesman a mix between a Great Artist and Great Merchant, creating both money and culture -- and thus, indirectly so, hapiness) ...

a) Give him the possibilty to culture Bomb and to conduct a trade missioin, but both abilities at a smaller extend then with the merchant or the artist. You might even add the Engineers ability to, making the great statesman something like an allrounder, but less good at the thing he is finally used to do.

... but then in a slightly altered form: generate an amount of money without having to abroad (as is required for the Great Merchant) and instead of culturally bombing one single city, let him inject culture in a single city (where you drop him), by an obviously much smaller amount then the Great Artist, and an (even) smaller amount of culture into the two nearby cities. This can get your local influence somewhere increase and would perhaps also serve well in your immigration mod, TheLopez, to stop migration... -- a mod I also did not play, but very much liked the ideas in there too!

As a superspecialist, the Great Statesman could also generate some money and culture in a city.

Just a thought.

Have fun and best regards,
Jaca

 

[wotan321]

Is this mod Warlords ready?

 

[TheLopez]

No, do you want it to be?

 

[Dom Pedro II]

*nudges TheLopez*

If you decide to make it for Warlords... some commenting please

 

[TheLopez]

Yes, yes, I know

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

Get an Artist to make an Al Gore model for the Modern Statesman

 

[Ket]

I'm all for a WL version...

 

[wotan321]

Yes, this would be a good thing for Warlords, since its a diplomatic unit and in Warlords diplomacy takes on an added importance. It sure would go great in Ket's XL mod.

 

[Ket]

/em ponders if he would have a mod if it was not for all of lopez's mod comps...

 

[Epicurist]

i would be interested in a WL version...

Through the SDK..is it possible for the statesman to make the AI happier with you..maybe +3 to x# of AI's.

Maybe that could be a separate unit--great ambassador.