[MODCOMP]Immigration Mod

[Jeckel]

I would like to point out to dh_epic, that many times, refugees DO travel in large groups choking up roads and blocking both civilian and military traffic. Sometimes that exodus in and of itself becomes the humanitarian crisis.

I was just about to point out the same thing, take a look at the refugee migrations durning the wars in bonzina, all the population movments in africa, and the jews exoduses durning WWII.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

IIRC that only happens the first time you do it, right?

No, I think that happens each time. Because what would be the default otherwise? Automatically declaring war, or automatically cancelling the action?

 

[The Great Apple]

I think the default is moving onto the same square as the unit.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Ok, I noticed a couple of bugs in my last game.

First of all, I was playing as Rome, and I stabbed my good neighbors the Persians in the back and invaded their country...

Now, I took Pasargadae after cutting my way through about 15-16 archers fortifying the city, which struck me as a bit odd. Then I realized that they needed to have that many troops to hold the city down because I was being welcomed as a liberator. Actually, they disbanded all of their offensive units just to be able to afford those archers that were holding that one city. The hoarde of Immortals I'd seen not too much earlier had been entirely replaced by second-rate archers to keep their fringe cities out of my charismatic grasp. Honestly, I've never been so well-received by a conquered country before, and that's because the city was already a whopping 135% Roman!

Actually, I'd been watching the city for some time before that and was wondering how exactly the city had -80% Persian population. Ahh... I love bug reporting but that's only because I'm not the one who has to debug it

The other problem I had was that for some reason, I found myself with a selected immigrant unit that I couldn't move (obviously) but I also couldn't deselect either... so I could pick another unit or select a city, but if I deselected those, it went right back to this immigrant unit that never moved after that point. So I couldn't just hit Enter to end the turn. I had to manually click the button to advance to the next turn and meanwhile the immigrant unit was just permanently stuck where it was, and every turn would be selected by default.

But as far as how it feels in game, I like it a lot actually. It's nice to have bloated over-populated cities vent population to outer-fringe cities that need a boost.

 

[TheLopez]

Ok, I noticed a couple of bugs in my last game.

First of all, I was playing as Rome, and I stabbed my good neighbors the Persians in the back and invaded their country...

Now, I took Pasargadae after cutting my way through about 15-16 archers fortifying the city, which struck me as a bit odd. Then I realized that they needed to have that many troops to hold the city down because I was being welcomed as a liberator. Actually, they disbanded all of their offensive units just to be able to afford those archers that were holding that one city. The hoarde of Immortals I'd seen not too much earlier had been entirely replaced by second-rate archers to keep their fringe cities out of my charismatic grasp. Honestly, I've never been so well-received by a conquered country before, and that's because the city was already a whopping 135% Roman!

Heil Caesar!

Actually, I'd been watching the city for some time before that and was wondering how exactly the city had -80% Persian population. Ahh... I love bug reporting but that's only because I'm not the one who has to debug it

Do you have a saved game I can take a look at?

The other problem I had was that for some reason, I found myself with a selected immigrant unit that I couldn't move (obviously) but I also couldn't deselect either... so I could pick another unit or select a city, but if I deselected those, it went right back to this immigrant unit that never moved after that point. So I couldn't just hit Enter to end the turn. I had to manually click the button to advance to the next turn and meanwhile the immigrant unit was just permanently stuck where it was, and every turn would be selected by default.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. Do you remember if they still had any moves or not?

But as far as how it feels in game, I like it a lot actually. It's nice to have bloated over-populated cities vent population to outer-fringe cities that need a boost.

That's one of the things I liked too about the mod, but actually it turns out that it is one of the side effects. I had never planned for that to happen but when testing a game early in the process I noticed that when I founded a city sometimes immigrants would go to it. I didn't change it since I felt it was semi-realistic since people tend to migrate to new areas of development and settlement.

 

[Komori]

I've tested the game, but experimented a few possible problems. I'm unsure if it is due to your code or due to the map i was playing (it was a saved map - scenary?). It should not conflict, anyhow. But i don't have the time to test on a random map right now, will do later.

I could only see immigrants of my nation moving around. Only. They would move thru my cities, overpopulationg some, which i found very nice (immigration brings hunger, some cities are not meant to get that much of people so fast. I believe social issues should also be tiggered by this, but i've no idea how one could implement that). Anyway, the point is, although my one surviving neighbour, germany, had produced immigrants (i checked the cities in the world builder and there were like 5 in one city and 3 on another) they did not move. I thought maybe they intended to move towards cities over seas and thus, end up stuck there. But then i checked every city I had and there was not one german on it. All 100% spanish. Germans cities however, save for the capitol, where all at least 80% spanish (mostly -100% german! the weirder one was -285% german. I mean, what is that? X_x).

I figure my big cities (and my small ones too) would be atracting some germans but seems like their immigrants couldn't move at all. I checked everyone else and they also had stocks of immigrants in various cities, for whatever reason. Oh, and they count as "UNITAI_SETTLER" is that right? This could be the reason they were not expanding their empires much, having so many "settler" units on some cities, the AI perhaps decided not making new settlers.

This could be because of the map? Anyway, I cleaned all the cities of all their units, took a few turns and checked again. The same issue.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

TheLopez: The saved files as requested... one is from before I invaded the Persians, the other from after I conquered them which shows the issue with the selected Immigrant.

I noticed that after I conquered the city, Pasargadae's Roman population eventually returned to 100%.

I do know that a lot of my immigrants (or emigrants rather I guess) were going to that particular city in addition to the fact that my culture was crushing in that area and it would've had a very high Roman population anyway. I think the immigrants just caused it to be put over the top... literally in this case.

(it was a saved map - scenary?)

cenario em ingles e "scenario"

 

[TheLopez]

I could only see immigrants of my nation moving around. Only. They would move thru my cities, overpopulationg some, which i found very nice (immigration brings hunger, some cities are not meant to get that much of people so fast. I believe social issues should also be tiggered by this, but i've no idea how one could implement that). Anyway, the point is, although my one surviving neighbour, germany, had produced immigrants (i checked the cities in the world builder and there were like 5 in one city and 3 on another) they did not move. I thought maybe they intended to move towards cities over seas and thus, end up stuck there.

What version of the mod are you playing? v0.4.3 had this issue but was fixed with v0.4.4.

I figure my big cities (and my small ones too) would be atracting some germans but seems like their immigrants couldn't move at all. I checked everyone else and they also had stocks of immigrants in various cities, for whatever reason. Oh, and they count as "UNITAI_SETTLER" is that right? This could be the reason they were not expanding their empires much, having so many "settler" units on some cities, the AI perhaps decided not making new settlers.

Ok, I have fixed this in the next version, it will now use UNITAI_MISSIONARY instead. I have tested it and it seems to work pretty well.

 

[Wyz_sub10]

First of all, this is a brilliant idea - one of those things that, when you hear it, makes you wonder why it wasn't included in the first place.

After all, if people unhappy with the conquering heroes? Why not leave?

Okay, a couple of suggestions:

- in the early eras, have migration be "manual" (tangible units that move from city A to city B)
- in the latter eras, have migration occur "magically" (representing flight, etc.)

Ideally, there would be an "affluence" component to it. A wealthy, advanced civ attracts both specialists and common citizens.

Less weathy, advanced societies do not attract specialists.

Other component? Immigration policy in civics.

- no immigrants
- specialist-only
- refugee only (from warring civs???)

 

[Dom Pedro II]

I think that perhaps there should be different sorts of immigration.

I think the "magical" movement of population from one area to another is well-suited to peace-time gradual immigration but I think that refugee units should be produced (and thus in danger from enemy troops) when cities are captured or under certain circumstances where people would be compelled to leave in droves.

Also, I think forced resettlement where a player could uproot and relocate people would be interesting as well. A popular tactic in the ancient world was, if you had places where the people were being difficult, to pick up some of them and scatter them across the empire and relocate your own people to these new areas.

Allowing settlers to bolster an existing cities population would also be nifty as well... like you used to be able to do.

 

[TheLopez]

First of all, this is a brilliant idea - one of those things that, when you hear it, makes you wonder why it wasn't included in the first place.

After all, if people unhappy with the conquering heroes? Why not leave?

Okay, a couple of suggestions:

- in the early eras, have migration be "manual" (tangible units that move from city A to city B)
- in the latter eras, have migration occur "magically" (representing flight, etc.)

Ideally, there would be an "affluence" component to it. A wealthy, advanced civ attracts both specialists and common citizens.

Less weathy, advanced societies do not attract specialists.

Hmmm.... that is an interesting idea.

Other component? Immigration policy in civics.

- no immigrants
- specialist-only
- refugee only (from warring civs???)

Well there is already one in place. Don't want immigrants? Then change your labor civic to serfdom. Don't want immigrants to migrate to your civilization then don't accept any open border policies.

But I really like the idea of wandering "specialists". I will have to keep this one in mind.

 

[TheLopez]

I think that perhaps there should be different sorts of immigration.

I think the "magical" movement of population from one area to another is well-suited to peace-time gradual immigration but I think that refugee units should be produced (and thus in danger from enemy troops) when cities are captured or under certain circumstances where people would be compelled to leave in droves.

This already happens right now in the current version.

Also, I think forced resettlement where a player could uproot and relocate people would be interesting as well. A popular tactic in the ancient world was, if you had places where the people were being difficult, to pick up some of them and scatter them across the empire and relocate your own people to these new areas.

Hmmm... I like this idea. Who should decide where the settlers will go?

Allowing settlers to bolster an existing cities population would also be nifty as well... like you used to be able to do.

Ah, so you could build a pseudo-settler building that could only join cities or should the current settlers be allowed to do this? Or better yet, should settlers be renamed pioneers and should only be allowed to create cities and then the new settler unit could do both create a new city or join an existing city?

 

[Ranbir]

Dude. I remember I once posted that Civ 4 should have this and I'm really glad you had the knowhow to create a way to do it. Thank you!

Now...maybe if you can create a distinction between cultural and political borders... Go on...

 

[TheLopez]

Dude. I remember I once posted that Civ 4 should have this and I'm really glad you had the knowhow to create a way to do it. Thank you!

Now...maybe if you can create a distinction between cultural and political borders... Go on...

Ranbir, if you look at my mod component library thread I have "distinction between cultural and political borders" as one of my todo items .

 

[RogerBacon]

You might want to consider making the civic 'police state' restrict immigrants to only choosing cities in your country, sort of like East Germany prevented immigration to the West.

Roger Bacon

 

[TheLopez]

You might want to consider making the civic 'police state' restrict immigrants to only choosing cities in your country, sort of like East Germany prevented immigration to the West.

Roger Bacon

Roger, this is a good idea but having a closed border already does this.

 

[Ranbir]

Yes I saw when I started browsing after posting. Great stuff. I'm just trying to play everything together now haha.

Question though, will the civ recieving immigrants notice a downside. I'm sure his health and such in the cities will start to get problems due to an influx of more people...will that create another chain reaction of immigration or do things have to be pretty dire?

Also, can a neighbouring city's overwhelming culture encourage immigration to that city?

Oh, and for immigration through the ages...maybe have the modern age unit a plane that can fly all over... maybe then we can see a map with lots of 'commercial' units using airspace.

 

[TheLopez]

Yes I saw when I started browsing after posting. Great stuff. I'm just trying to play everything together now haha.

Question though, will the civ recieving immigrants notice a downside. I'm sure his health and such in the cities will start to get problems due to an influx of more people...will that create another chain reaction of immigration or do things have to be pretty dire?

Yep, that is correct. Another problem that could happen depending on the configuration of the mod is that if enough culture is carried the city could flip loyalties.

Also, can a neighbouring city's overwhelming culture encourage immigration to that city?

Yes, it can.

Oh, and for immigration through the ages...maybe have the modern age unit a plane that can fly all over... maybe then we can see a map with lots of 'commercial' units using airspace.

Hmmm... that is an interesting idea.

 

[Xavier Von Erck]

They better make sure to never let you leave these forums, thelopez. Best mods on here, easily.

I can't wait to see this thing fleshed out, what a great idea.

 

[TheLopez]

They better make sure to never let you leave these forums, thelopez. Best mods on here, easily.

Thanks, I don't know if they are the best...

I can't wait to see this thing fleshed out, what a great idea.

What do you many when it is fleshed out? It already is, a lot of what people are asking for are feature enhancements.