[MODCOMP] Inquisition Mod

[OrionVeteran]

OK then, let us assume then that you had gone to the trouble of spreading your religion to several AI cities-in order to collect the cash via your shrine. Then along comes the AI's inquisitors to strip the religion from those cities. Now we obviously want this to be a possibility-or we wouldn't be playing with this mod-but would we want it to be virtually guaranteed? I doubt it.

Aussie_Lurker.

After much further investigation, I have come up with the following for all to consider:

1. Missionaries are religious offensive units used to spread or proselytize a state religion into other cities throughout your civilization and those, which have an open borders agreement with you.

2. Inquisitors are religious defensive units used to eliminate/remove any non-state religion that may exist in any city throughout your civilization and in any foreign city, where that nation has the same state religion and an open borders agreement with you.

3. Missionaries and Inquisitors have opposite rolls to play in the battle for the hearts and minds of the people. Without religious buildings or a holy city, the chance for an Inquisitor to remove a religion should be "equal" to the Missionary’s chance to add a religion. Additionally, the cost for the inquisitor is too high currently and should be lowered to match the cost for a missionary.

4. An inquisition is an “internal” state issue. You don’t go crossing the border of a hostile country and try to execute an inquisition, where your religion has no influence (i.e. the state religion does not match yours). Just think how hard it would be to convert several Islamic cities in Iran to the say the Hari Chrishna religion. Against another theocracy, your little inquisitor would be hunted down and hung before nightfall. In Civ4, you would have to declare war against a hostile civilization, where no open borders agreement exists.

5. An inquisition should favor the host nation who owns the Holy City for a religion, just, as history has shown. Before the the Inquisitor can be used, there should be a requirement for the pre-existence of your state religion in a city. Therefore, when attempting to eliminate any religion in a city that belongs to other friendly civilizations, your state religion must be their state religion and your religion must already exist in the city (either by the AI spreading your religious influence or by sending a missionary to proselytize that city). This allows the Inquisitor to retain a religious defensive roll, when it attempts to exert more religious influence on a city owned by another civilization (i.e. an Ally).

6. Yes, I believe the AI should have the same capability to use the Inquisitor, as human players have. After sending out a bunch of missionaries to proselytize your religion freely in foreign lands, I don’t believe it would be fair to collect all that gold and expect the AI to let your religion flourish: The exception is when you convince a friendly civilization to convert their state religion to your religion. The goal is to achieve that conversion before the AI sends out Inquisitors to rid the empire of heretics. …And that is the real challenge isn’t it?

7. It is not a virtual guarantee that an Inquisitor will be successful in the attempt to rid a non-state religion from a city. As I have shown, it may take 2, 3 or even 4 Inquisitors to achieve success, depending on the religious situation in the city. And wouldn't it be a good strategy to sentry an Inquisitor in each of your Holy cities to act as defenders of the faith, in case the AI attempts to spread it's religious influence throughout your empire? All defending inqusitors in a city would have to be eliminated before a foreign missionary is allowed to spread a non-state religion in your city. The method is the same: The missionary is used up, i.e. disappears, and success would result in the removal of a defending Inquisitor.

8. Bottom Line is: If the AI sends out Inquisitors, they should be no less effective than a human player’s Inquisitors.

9. In summary, here are the changes I would like to see:

** Cost for the Inquisitor: Lower production cost of the Inquisitor from 150 to 60 hammers to match the cost for the Missionary.

** Inquisitor Success Rate: Make the Inquisitor’s success rate for removing a religion equal to the missionary’s success rate to add a religion. Well established religions or Holy City religions should not take more than 4 Inquisitors for removal.

** Inquisitors in Foreign Cities: Give the inquisitor the capability to remove a religion in a foreign city, where that civilization has an open borders agreement and a state religion that is the same as your state religion. In other words, an Ally. Remember, an inquisition is an “internal” state issue and the Inquisitor can only operate under state sanction.

** Missionary offensive: Give the Missionary the capability to remove a defending Inquisitor guarding a foreign religion in a city. If the missionary is successful, then the Inquisitor, in a defensive action, sacrifices himself to protect the city from the introduction of a heathen religion and disappears along with the missionary. Once the Inquisitor is gone, another missionary can make an attempt to proselytize it’s religion in that city.

** Religious influence Pre-requisite: If not already done, implement a requirement for the pre-existence of your state religion in a city before the Inquisitor can be used. If sending an Inquisitor into foreign territory, with an open borders agreement, the state religion of that civilization must also match yours. No exceptions.

** AI capability: Give the “AI” the same exact capability to use the Inquisitor, as human players have.


Any thoughts?

Orion Veteran

 

[OrionVeteran]

I have spoke with a historian and fellow Civilization gamer about the role of the Inquisitor and the Missionary. After several long discussions I have made a few changes to my last post and have recommended these changes be incorporated into the Inquisition mod. Does anyone agree or disagree with the proposed changes? Please indicate why.

Orion Veteran

 

[TheLopez]

#1) No to all your "suggestions". I'm typically not this way OrionVeteran but you have royally pissed me off. If you don't like how the mod comp plays then change it to suit your needs.

#2) This mod comp was made to the specifications of Donegeal.

#3) See my comments bellow

** Cost for the Inquisitor: Lower production cost of the Inquisitor from 150 to 60 hammers to match the cost for the Missionary.

Nope, not going to do that, especially since it will throw the balance of the unit. Currently inquisitors are more powerful than missionaries, hence their cost. Plus you can alway upgrade missionaries into inquisitors.

** Inquisitor Success Rate: Make the Inquisitor’s success rate for removing a religion equal to the missionary’s success rate to add a religion. Well established religions or Holy City religions should not take more than 4 Inquisitors for removal.

No to this too, you shouldn't be able to remove a religion as easily as it is to establish a religion in a city, especially if it is the holy city. Additionally, it wouldn't be historically accurate, take the example of Jerusalem, no matter how many times have people tried to wipe out Judaism from Jerusalem it is still the holiest city for Jews.

** Inquisitors in Foreign Cities: Give the inquisitor the capability to remove a religion in a foreign city, where that civilization has an open borders agreement and a state religion that is the same as your state religion. In other words, an Ally. Remember, an inquisition is an “internal” state issue and the Inquisitor can only operate under state sanction.

Why would you want to artificially limit the operational range of inquisitors?

** Missionary offensive: Give the Missionary the capability to remove a defending Inquisitor guarding a foreign religion in a city. If the missionary is successful, then the Inquisitor, in a defensive action, sacrifices himself to protect the city from the introduction of a heathen religion and disappears along with the missionary. Once the Inquisitor is gone, another missionary can make an attempt to proselytize it’s religion in that city.

Inquisitor guarding a foreign religion? Huh? Missionary offensive? None of this has anything to do with this mod.

** Religious influence Pre-requisite: If not already done, implement a requirement for the pre-existence of your state religion in a city before the Inquisitor can be used. If sending an Inquisitor into foreign territory, with an open borders agreement, the state religion of that civilization must also match yours. No exceptions.

Have you even played the mod? There are religion prereqs in place for building inquisitor units. Why should the state religion of the civilization where the inquisitor is match? That makes absolutely no sense.

** AI capability: Give the “AI” the same exact capability to use the Inquisitor, as human players have.

Ok, now I know you haven't played the mod. The AI already has the same capability to use the inquisitor units like human players.

I'm sorry if I am being a bit rude but from several of your comments it seems like you haven't even played the mod...

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Hey TheLopez, you have no need to apologise. I have 'known' you long enough to know that it takes a lot to get you angry-in fact I don't think I have ever seen you angry-and this guy definitely had it coming (hey, if you can put up with me without losing your temper, then you must have a very high tolerence threshold ). Like you, this guy was seriously getting up my nose, and struck me as someone who had never played the mod-or at least not properly-so you were right to put him 'back in his box'!

Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Grave]

#1) No to all your "suggestions".

I'm typically not this way OrionVeteran but you have royally pissed me off. If you don't like how the mod comp plays then change it to suit your needs.

It's one thing to make minor suggestions for a mod, but when your basically asking TheLopez to totally re-write the mod... Just be happy TheLopez took the time... time he could of spent with family, friends, etc, and instead spent that time making a mod for all of us to enjoy.

If you have all these radical ideas for the mod Orion, that you want to see put to use, just make the changes yourself and enjoy YOUR version of the mod. Asking TheLopez to literally re-write the Inquisition mod after the hard work he already put into it is asinine!



I was mentioning in the Sevomod forum, that sometimes people forget that the mod makers here aren't obligated to make the mods that they do. They make them simply because they enjoy making them. They devote hours upon hours of their own personal time developing these mods. It's a labor of love. They don't get paid for their efforts, it's all based on enthuiasm for the game. Sorry, it's just been irritating me lately, in several different mod threads, that people aren't just happy with a mod maker's product... that they have to start making demands that certain changes "must" be made to the mod. No mod makers here have a moral obligation to change anything at all.

So instead of everybody nit-picking every little detail about a mod, let's just enjoy what the mod makers put out, and appreciate the fact that they took the time to make them in the first place. Then if you feel a mod needs changed that bad, just learn how to code and do the work yourself!


Ok, sorry for the rant Lopez, just had to vent here, too.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

You said it, GraveEatr. I have barely scratched the surface of XML and-more recently-SDK modding, and it gives you a real appreciation for how much hard work the modders put into their work. This effort should be rewarded with praise and maybe the odd "suggestion", but certainly not outright criticism and demands for change. I say "Great Work, TheLopez", your work is always of the highest quality, and will always be appreciated by people like myself (oh and your work too, GravEatr, definitely !!!)

Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

OrionVeteran's arrogant demands have made me feel guilty and thus compelled me to temporarily ease up on the whip to the modders' backs

 

[OrionVeteran]

#1) No to all your "suggestions". I'm typically not this way OrionVeteran but you have royally pissed me off. If you don't like how the mod comp plays then change it to suit your needs.

I did not intend upon making you angry, as you are the one I am trying to convince, hopefully in a nice way, to make some modest changes in an effort to make the inquisition mod more historically accurate. Beyond that, I would like to see your mod eventually become a permanent part of future releases of the official game. If you are willing to spend your valuable time, I am willing to help you make this mod better than it already is.

#2) This mod comp was made to the specifications of Donegeal.

Sorry about your first impression of me, as I have only praise for both you and Donegeal for all of the great work done thus far. There is no disrespect intended at all, only deep appreciation and admiration for your programming abilities – simply impressive!

Nope, not going to do that, especially since it will throw the balance of the unit. Currently inquisitors are more powerful than missionaries, hence their cost. Plus you can alway upgrade missionaries into inquisitors.

Since I agree the inquisitor is more powerful in it’s ability to remove religious buildings and or the associated religion, I’ll retract my request for lowering the cost. I have played this mod several times, but never noticed you could upgrade a missionary into an inquisitor for 290 gold. This upgrade actually changes the actual missionary’s role of proselytizing a religion into the capability to eliminate a religion. These roles are mutually exclusive and I’m not sure that there is historical precedence. It is an interesting option though.

No to this too, you shouldn't be able to remove a religion as easily as it is to establish a religion in a city, especially if it is the holy city. Additionally, it wouldn't be historically accurate, take the example of Jerusalem, no matter how many times have people tried to wipe out Judaism from Jerusalem it is still the holiest city for Jews.

On an earlier post you said:

What can happen to improve the chance that Judaism is removed from Paris? Well, another of the city's religion can be removed, if all three are removed then the removal chance changes from -15% to 11%. Still low since Judaism is a well established religion in Paris..

That is a 26% better chance to take out the religion (Judaism) of the Holy City Paris. Why would it be any easier to take out a Holy City’s religion, if that religion is the only religion left in the city, than it would be if there were 3 other religions in the city? Are you telling me that Judaism will be easier to take out just because the Holy City’s religion stands alone? Where is the historical precedence for that? Please don’t get offended, as I am only questioning the math calculations that determine the possibility to remove a Holy City’s religion. We could probably do an entire post just on the math calculations and how to improve them.

Why would you want to artificially limit the operational range of inquisitors?

DQ and I thought long and hard about the effective range for inquisitors. Should they be allowed to enter a foreign city and attempt to remove a foreign state religion? Historically, an inquisition is an internal state issue. Therefore, inquisitors can only perform under “state” sanction. I define a state, as your civilization or any other civilization that has an “open borders” agreement and has the “same state religion” as yours. I’m actually trying to expand the inquisitor’s role, “just slightly,” in order to assist in removing heretics from cities belonging to an ally. …cities that all have the same state religion as you have. Since your state religion is also the state religion for your ally, your inquisitors can operate with the “permission of the state” to carry out their religious “purification” duties in allied territory. The reason why we want to limit the inquisitor to religious allies; is because if you were to attempt to bring in an inquisitor into the territory of a civilization, with a different state religion than yours; and attempt to remove that heathen non-state religion, it would be an act of war against that civilization! The comment would likely be, “How dare you come into our city and kill the people of our faith and destroy our holy buildings!” So you see, in that case, the inquisitor is not acting under “state” sanction, he would be operating more like a saboteur, which is not the roll of an inquisitor, but a spy. For these reasons, it is our desire to limit the inquisitor to operate only in allied cities.

Inquisitor guarding a foreign religion? Huh? Missionary offensive? None of this has anything to do with this mod.

Pardon my military jargon, as I am a retired veteran. Allow me to explain. Missionaries are religious units that can spread your state religion by proselytizing in other cities. Unlike the inquisitor, the missionary can attempt to spread your state religion in any city, not just your own, provided that the host civilization has an open borders agreement with you. For example: If you send your missionary into a foreign (AI) city, where the host civilization has a different “state religion” than you, then your missionary can still spread your religion to that city. However, the host civilization may not want your religion in that city or any other city, within it’s borders. So what does the AI do? The AI sends an inquisitor in an attempt to remove your religion from the city. …With me so far?

Now for the proposal: Under the same scenario, you could attempt to send another missionary to re-establish your religion in the foreign city. But this time you find the host civilization has placed an inquisitor there to defend against any foreign missionaries that may attempt to add a non-state religion into that city. How is this done, knowing the inquisitor is currently used for removing a religion? When your missionary attempts to add your state religion to the city, I call it a “religious offensive” against the city, where successful proselytizing, results in the addition of your state religion (i.e. you clicked the command button and your religion appears in the city). However, the host nation has put an inquisitor inside the city in an attempt to deny the spread of your religion by your missionary. How can this be done and still make sense? The foreign inquisitor acts in a defensive roll and sacrifices himself to prevent the spread of what the foreign civilization thinks is a heathen non-state religion. So instead of the missionary’s religion showing up, the attempt fails, due to the heroic actions of the “defending” inquisitor and both units disappear from the city. In stopping you from spreading your religion, the other civilization lost an inquisitor, while you lost a missionary. The rolls hold true: The missionary attempts to spread the faith, while the inquisitor attempts to purify the faith by eliminating a heathen religion.

Have you even played the mod? There are religion prereqs in place for building inquisitor units. Why should the state religion of the civilization where the inquisitor is match? That makes absolutely no sense.

Yes I have played the mod, several times. I think you misunderstood me. I am not referring to a pre-requisite to build an inquisitor, but a pre-condition before the inquisitor can be used. The reason you want to have your religion in a city before the inquisitor can be used is because of the “defensive” roll the inquisitor plays. You send the inquisitor into a city to “purify” the faith that your missionaries worked so hard to establish earlier. To the inquisitor, there is no religion to defend in the city, if your state religion has not established itself in that city. How can you purify the faith, if the faith you are trying to defend doesn’t even exist? In better terms, if you attempt to take out a religion, in a city where your state religion does not exist, you are nothing more than a religious terrorist or spy committing sabotage, not an inquisitor. If you want to remain historically accurate, using the inquisitor must be limited to cities that have your state religion already in place.

Now to answer your question on why the state religion’s for both civilizations must match before the inquisitor can be used: As stated before: Let’s say you have an open borders agreement with a civilization, but you do not share the same state religion. If you attempt to send an inquisitor into their territory and attempt to remove that heathen nation’s non-state religion and or it’s associated buildings, it would be an act of war against that civilization! How would you react to another player wiping out your state religion and the buildings that keeps your people happy? Not to kindly, I expect. I say again an inquisition is an internal state issue of purifying the faith, not an act of sabotage against rival civilizations. This is why you need an open borders agreement and share the same state religion.

Please note: Even Donegeal has made this suggestion!

In my post, I suggested that you only be able to purge religions from civs that have your founded religion as their state religion. Similar to how the Vatican has power extending way beyond its border... http://forums.civfanatics.com/archive/index.php/t-142337.html

There you have it. My request is nothing new to what has already been suggested.

Ok, now I know you haven't played the mod. The AI already has the same capability to use the inquisitor units like human players.

I'm sorry if I am being a bit rude but from several of your comments it seems like you haven't even played the mod...

You are being a bit rude! But I will over look it for the sake of respect, honest discussion and progress. As said earlier I have played the mod and I would like to see it improved to make the mod more realistic and in line with historical precedence. I love this game and I like your mod. Let’s try for the sake of all, who might use it in the future, to make it better. I’m willing to help, if you are willing to have an open mind and not get overly defensive. Who knows, you might even get the mod incorporated into the official game. I’m game if you are…

Sincerely,

Orion Veteran

 

[OrionVeteran]

It's one thing to make minor suggestions for a mod, but when your basically asking TheLopez to totally re-write the mod... Just be happy TheLopez took the time... time he could of spent with family, friends, etc, and instead spent that time making a mod for all of us to enjoy.

No. I’m not asking for a total re-write of the mod. Far from it! Rather, I am asking for a few constructive changes to the inquisitor unit, so that the unit is more in line with historical precedence.

If you have all these radical ideas for the mod Orion, that you want to see put to use, just make the changes yourself and enjoy YOUR version of the mod. Asking TheLopez to literally re-write the Inquisition mod after the hard work he already put into it is asinine!

Again you claim I am asking for a total re-write and again you are wrong! The ideas being suggested are not just my own, but come from other Civilization players also. ...Didn’t realize that did you? Further, the ideas are not radical, but rather based on the special ecclesiastical, institutional and historical role inquisitors played in combating or suppressing heresy. It is not “asinine” to ask for a few improvements to a mod for the purpose of historical accuracy. Because of your “inability” to even have an open mind, you are acting out in a defensive rant. That kind of childish attitude is what I would expect from a teenager, who thinks he knows everything and won’t listen to reason. So loose the attitude and try to give each idea a fair examination and debate, before discounting the suggestion.

I was mentioning in the Sevomod forum, that sometimes people forget that the mod makers here aren't obligated to make the mods that they do. They make them simply because they enjoy making them. They devote hours upon hours of their own personal time developing these mods. It's a labor of love. They don't get paid for their efforts, it's all based on enthuiasm for the game. Sorry, it's just been irritating me lately, in several different mod threads, that people aren't just happy with a mod maker's product... that they have to start making demands that certain changes "must" be made to the mod. No mod makers here have a moral obligation to change anything at all.

No one is discounting the outstanding work of mod developers like TheLopez. I agree, his work is a labor of love and is greatly appreciated. You talk about making "demands", which is another inappropriate word that you imply I made, based upon the comments others have made. Shame on you, as you “assume” the word “must” implies a demand. NOT! The suggestions I made are nothing more than honest requests. I requested these changes, because I believe the changes must be made in order for the mod to remain historically accurate. That’s an opinion, not a demand. Got it?

Ok, sorry for the rant Lopez, just had to vent here, too.

Yes, you lost control and vented. Now that your rant is over, perhaps we can re-engage in honest debate and give every idea a fair examination, without jumping to conclusions.

Very Respectively,

Orion Veteran

 

[skylined]

Perfect comp, Lopez !!!
If you don't mind, i'll include it in future release of Amravolution.

 

[Edward The Big]

TheLopez,

I just tried both of your new mods...You rock, and everyone else is diseased! Well done, young man!

 

[funksterj]

Hey theLopez. I've tried incorporating your mod into a mod that I'm working on. It seems to have worked OK except that the "Remove Religion" action is not present when I'm in opposition cities. It appears and seems to work fine in my own cities, but not in other civs. I've not altered any of your python or other code as such, just integrated a pile of XML changes into your mod and none involving your additions. Just wondering if you have any ideas.

I may be missing something obvious, and if I am I apologise in advance.

 

[TheLopez]

Hey theLopez. I've tried incorporating your mod into a mod that I'm working on. It seems to have worked OK except that the "Remove Religion" action is not present when I'm in opposition cities. It appears and seems to work fine in my own cities, but not in other civs. I've not altered any of your python or other code as such, just integrated a pile of XML changes into your mod and none involving your additions. Just wondering if you have any ideas.

I may be missing something obvious, and if I am I apologise in advance.

Did you merge in the SDK changes as well? Do you have the correct civics set?

 

[funksterj]

Did you merge in the SDK changes as well? Do you have the correct civics set?

Thanks for the reply.

In terms of SDK, I just used an unaltered version of your 'CvGameCoreDLL.dll' ... is that what you mean? Or do you have to do something more with the C++ code, recompile or something?

As for the civics set, although there are some minor changes, they are the basic civic set that comes with original 1.61. I also tested with a 'clean version' of civ and just your mod with the same problem.

 

[TheLopez]

When testing the game what is your religious civic set to?

 

[OrionVeteran]

Hey TheLopez,

I noticed that you have not responded to my last post. So, I thought I would make this a little easier for you. I have narrowed down my recommended changes to just two requests that I believe are the most important and those which will provide the most impact toward historical accuracy. Can you take a moment and review the two problems and see if my recommended changes make any sense? All I am looking for now is agreement on the need to make the changes, as I am very patient and can wait for a “good” update to the mod. The format is Problem/Effect/Solution.

Definitions:

Heretic: One who holds an unorthodox opinion or doctrine in opposition to established religious doctrine, which is generally accepted by the people as authoritative.

Inquisition: An official or judicial inquiry or tribunal responsible for discovering, suppressing and punishing heresy and unbelief in Church doctrine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

1st Problem: Currently any player can use the Inquisitor unit to remove any non-state religion, without the pre-existence of the player’s state religion in a city.

--Effect: For a unit to take out a religion, in a city, where the state religion does not exist, makes that unit nothing more than a religious terrorist or spy committing sabotage; not an inquisitor, who is sent to purify the “existing faith.” History shows an inquisition is an internal state issue. The duty of the “established religion” is to root out heresy and equated it with treason against the state. Enter the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor can hold ecclesiastical tribunals that have jurisdiction only over members of a religion, which encompasses the vast majority of the population. In the game scenario above, the official state religion is not established and the entire city population consists of non-believers, who worship one or more non-state religions. You cannot have an inquisition trial against religious heretics in a city, where your religion does not already exist! Bottom Line: For this game, you shouldn’t be able eliminate a competing non-state religion, if your state religion has not been established first; either by a missionary or by the AI.

-- Suggested Solution: Set a pre-condition that insures a player’s state religion must exist in a city before an inquisitor can be used to remove any non-state religion.



2nd Problem: Currently, the Inquisitor unit cannot operate in allied cities in other civilizations that have an open borders agreement and share the same state religion.

--Effect: Limiting the Inquisitor to operate only within your civilization’s borders falsely assumes that a religion can’t be the dominant state religion in multiple nations. History shows that a religion can spread into many countries and inquisition trials were not confined to just one nation. For example: the Spanish inquisition extended into France, Italy, Portugal and Spain. Bottom line: {Changed} For this game, the inquisitor of your state religion should not only have jurisdiction in all cities within your borders, but also in all foreign nations that share the same state religion and have an open borders agreement with you.

-- Suggested Solution: Set a precondition to confirm the following before an Inquisitor can purge a religion from a city belonging to another civilization:

• There must be an open borders agreement with your civilization.
• The state religion of the civilization must match yours.
• Your state religion must be established in the city.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I encourage detailed debate with anyone to test the recommendations and prove their worthiness for inclusion into your mod. So, those of you out there, who are reading this post, don’t be shy: Make a comment for or against the changes and provide good research to support your opinion, either way.

V/R,

Orion Veteran

 

[funksterj]

When testing the game what is your religious civic set to?

I was Theocracy but I'm not sure what the other civs were if that makes a difference. (edit: in regards to the non-religious civics, it seems to make no difference what they are. In my last test one they were all set to the default starting civics (except Theocracy)) I figured the problem is obviously just mine, so I did a clean install, patched it wtih 1.61. Ran with your Inquisitor mod only with the same problem. I've not started a game from scratch with clean install so I can try that, but I'm not sure if that would make any difference. Sorry to be a pain, obviously everybody else isn't having a problem with it ... so it must be something simple.

BTW, just reminder that the Inquisitor works in every other respect. With the right civics and all, I can build and use them on my own cities, just not on opposition civs, regardless of what religion is present in the city.

Thanks again for your attention to this.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

OrionVeteran: I think he didn't respond because he is trying his best to ignore you... and while your intentions might be good, your approach is in need of work. For example when you say:

So, I thought I would make this a little easier for you.

And put "easier" in bold like that, it seems like you think he's an idiot... in fact, a lot of your emphasizing comes off as being rather condescending... I wasn't even involved in the conversation (though I was following it) and I even felt like you were being a bit insulting... now I'm sure you're not intending it to be that way, but I think how you're presenting things is what was bothering people a lot more than what you were actually trying to say.

 

[OrionVeteran]

OrionVeteran: I think he didn't respond because he is trying his best to ignore you... and while your intentions might be good, your approach is in need of work. For example when you say:



And put "easier" in bold like that, it seems like you think he's an idiot... in fact, a lot of your emphasizing comes off as being rather condescending... I wasn't even involved in the conversation (though I was following it) and I even felt like you were being a bit insulting... now I'm sure you're not intending it to be that way, but I think how you're presenting things is what was bothering people a lot more than what you were actually trying to say.

I did not intend to insult anyone and I do not believe TheLopez is an idiot. In fact just the opposite is true. I think he is an outstanding programmer and his brilliance is evident by the number of mods he has turned out. Perhaps I have come off as too strong willed, but in many other debates (not on Civ fanatics), a strong presentation along with well researched facts are needed to win the day. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, it's not intentional.

In that light, I will ask everyone: Please do not get hung up on my “aggressive” writing style and try to concentrate only on the merits of the suggestions. It is my sincere wish to help see this mod become an awesome addition to Civ4. IMO, it certainly has the potential with only a few changes. I encourage everyone to take your best shot at my requested changes and let’s see if they are worthy for inclusion. If my ideas are not worthy, I can take the criticism. So, fire away.

BTW, my latest testing of this mod shows that the inquisitor will not work outside of your own borders no matter what agreements you have with an ally or foreign civ.

Very Respectfully,

Orion Veteran

 

[OrionVeteran]

It has been a few days since my last post and no one has made a reply on this thread indicating any disagreement with the two proposed mod changes. Should I assume that everyone agrees in principle and is in favor of having TheLopez implement the changes? If not, let’s hear from you. Please present your side of the debate to justify why the proposed changes should not be implemented.

Very Respectfuly,

Orion Veteran