Modding Speculation

[Afforess]

Sorry for coming late, had a party and am not entirely sober atm.

Now for an example that (for some) qualifies for your comparison:

public class Multiplier
{
    public static void main(String[] args)
    {
        Scanner input = new Scanner(System.in);
        int value1, value2;
        
        System.out.print("Enter first value: ");
        value1 = input.nextInt();
        System.out.print("Enter second value: ");
        value2 = input.nextInt();
                
        if (value1 % value2 > 0)
        {
            System.out.printf("%d is not a multiple of %d", value1, value2);
        }
        else
        {
            System.out.printf("%d is a multiple of %d", value1, value2);
        }
    }
}

That is actual code. It's extremely simple code (I hate having to take basic classes on I already know... So very much. Especially when you can only use techniques already covered in the class. ), but it is still code, and many would have no idea what it says.

Let me impress you. First off, it's Java! Yeah, the world of Java!. It prints a the statement "Enter first value" onto the command line, retrieves a integer value from the command, does that again. Then, it uses the modulus function to check whether the second number is a multiple of the first number, and prints that. Harrah! I took CPS 180 (Intro to Java) a year ago. My prof would be proud. And yes, I felt the same way as you. He was talking about "Variables" and "Datatypes", and I was wanting to get onto for loops and stuff... Now i'm finally in new territory this year. C and Assembly code. The wonders of base-8, base-16, and computer architecture. Did I mention my other major is Meteorology?

....While you earn points for the Ender reference

Ender FTW. But actually, I thought his brother was a more interesting character.


And I agree with pretty much everything else you said. 3:40 am here... headache, can't think....

 

[EmperorFool]

It prints a the statement "Enter first value" onto the command line, retrieves a integer value from the command, does that again. Then, it uses the modulus function to check whether the second number is a multiple of the first number, and prints that.

Shoot, I could have sworn that was an ASCII-based Pac Man game in RISC 9000 assembly.

You kids today with your Java and C# and Python. I started with BASIC and went right to 6502 assembly because there was no other option at the time--in the snow, both ways! Well, Pascal which became available around that time, but I didn't have it on my machine. Once you do assembly language, though, most other languages are cake. OOP was a new concept, but it's generally smooth sailing once you know how the computer works under the hood.

Ahhh, good times.

 

[Valkrionn]

Let me impress you. First off, it's Java! Yeah, the world of Java!. It prints a the statement "Enter first value" onto the command line, retrieves a integer value from the command, does that again. Then, it uses the modulus function to check whether the second number is a multiple of the first number, and prints that. Harrah! I took CPS 180 (Intro to Java) a year ago. My prof would be proud. And yes, I felt the same way as you. He was talking about "Variables" and "Datatypes", and I was wanting to get onto for loops and stuff... Now i'm finally in new territory this year. C and Assembly code. The wonders of base-8, base-16, and computer architecture. Did I mention my other major is Meteorology?



Ender FTW. But actually, I thought his brother was a more interesting character.


And I agree with pretty much everything else you said. 3:40 am here... headache, can't think....

Yes, Java. I'm enjoying the language (mostly for the novelty of setting up a compiler within command prompt... Never done that before, as this is the first language that I have started off in a class. All others I had prior experience in), but the class is mindnumbing. I'm just waiting till later on in the semester when we (supposedly) get into app development.

Seriously, going over basic crap is killing me. Professor had a 'programing contest' in which she had us write crap to accept a 4-digit value, split said value into it's constituent digits, and output it in reverse order, with a few spaces in between. So 1234 = 4 3 2 1.

I finished in around 2 minutes, using modulo (couldn't convert to a string, as we hadn't covered it ). Next person to finish took 15 minutes longer, and the professor telling people to use modulo and showing them how to set it up. My prize? Having my photo taken to go on her office door. Felt like being punished for winning.


I'm majoring in Computer Science. IIRC there is enough math involved for that to be my minor; Otherwise, likely History, my classes are fairly varied. Ancient History, Religion, Cinema (which is NOT just watching movies!), anthropology... All things that may prove useful one day when designing a game. :lol;



Back on the subject... Check this thread. May have some useful information, and a few surprises. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=379987

 

[Valkrionn]

Shoot, I could have sworn that was an ASCII-based Pac Man game in RISC 9000 assembly.

You kids today with your Java and C# and Python. I started with BASIC and went right to 6502 assembly because there was no other option at the time--in the snow, both ways! Well, Pascal which became available around that time, but I didn't have it on my machine. Once you do assembly language, though, most other languages are cake. OOP was a new concept, but it's generally smooth sailing once you know how the computer works under the hood.

Ahhh, good times.

Man. python. So very much.

I constantly catch myself doing stupid, inefficient things in Java because I am used to Python. In the contest I mentioned above, my initial code was unwieldy... Because I am used to the way python works.

digit2 = (value % 1000 - digit3 - digit4) / 100;

vs

digit2 = (value / 100) % 10;

Why the extra step? Because, even though I'm used to C++ by now, I started with python. Which has dynamic variables. That digit2 int would become a float in Python, and with that, I'd need to remove the decimals.

Obviously, not the case in Java. Decimals are truncated in any int operations. Made my code look much better when I noticed my mistake.

 

[Szpilman]

Back on the subject... Check this thread. May have some useful information, and a few surprises. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=379987

Auto-updater! Yeah!

 

[Valkrionn]

Wasn't QUITE the info I linked the manual for, but yeah, very nice.

 

[Szpilman]

How about auto-updater for mods? Still no? I wonder what in the seven seas you linked it for..
Give me a hint. Like, does it so happen to have anything to do with the last section on the first page about modding? You could say "it has specifically to do with the first sentence in that section. And the second too.", for instance. I'm just giving an hypothetical example..

 

[Valkrionn]

How about auto-updater for mods? Still no? I wonder what in the seven seas you linked it for..
Give me a hint. Like, does it so happen to have anything to do with the last section on the first page about modding? You could say "it has specifically to do with the first sentence in that section. And the second too.", for instance. I'm just giving an hypothetical example..

Actually, it had specifically to do with the credits section of the document.

And the paragraph on modbuddy. Though it's fairly skimpy.

Edit: Well... I actually had not read the section on xml yet. I love this line. "The easiest way to get into modding is available to anyone with access to a text editor. If you can type, you can mod." Which would be the lines you mentioned.

No, those lines were not the impetus of my post. But still quite relevant. As is "This package will allow you to make custom maps and scenarios,
change minute behavior of the game’s AI, and package up your custom mods so that others can download and enjoy them too" from the modbuddy section.

And, of course, the credits section.

 

[Dale]

I started with BASIC

Ahhh...... BASIC on the Commodore in '82...... good times!

 

[Valkrionn]

......I would have been -5 years old at the time.

 

[Szpilman]

Me I was -7 years old.

We weren't even in design phase yet My design team was in fact yet to be assembled.

 

[Afforess]

I've got you beat. I would have been -9.

 

[EmperorFool]

I constantly catch myself doing stupid, inefficient things in Java because I am used to Python. In the contest I mentioned above, my initial code was unwieldy... Because I am used to the way python works.

digit2 = (value % 1000 - digit3 - digit4) / 100;

vs

digit2 = (value / 100) % 10;

While every language has its quirks and drawbacks, in this single case Python is just as efficient.

digit2 = (value [B][COLOR="Red"]//[/COLOR][/B] 100) % 10;

Even without the integer division operator // you could cast the result, though you'd risk casting 3.9999999999 to 3.

digit2 = int(value / 100) % 10;

But really this problem could have been solved more generically using a loop. The fact that she wanted the digits printed in reverse was a great clue:

import sys

x = 47893727
while x > 0:
	sys.stdout.write("%d " % (x % 10))
	x //= 10
print

vs.

class DigitPrinter {
	static void main(String[] args) {
		int x = 47893727;
		while (x > 0) {
			System.out.print((x % 10) + " ");
			x /= 10;
		}
		System.out.println();
	}
}

Ahhh...... BASIC on the Commodore in '82...... good times!

Heh, my BASIC was on the Apple //e, but I started in the same year as you.

 

[Valkrionn]

While every language has its quirks and drawbacks, in this single case Python is just as efficient.

digit2 = (value [B][COLOR="Red"]//[/COLOR][/B] 100) % 10;

Even without the integer division operator // you could cast the result, though you'd risk casting 3.9999999999 to 3.

digit2 = int(value / 100) % 10;

But really this problem could have been solved more generically using a loop. The fact that she wanted the digits printed in reverse was a great clue:

import sys

x = 47893727
while x > 0:
	sys.stdout.write("%d " % (x % 10))
	x //= 10
print

vs.

class DigitPrinter {
	static void main(String[] args) {
		int x = 47893727;
		while (x > 0) {
			System.out.print((x % 10) + " ");
			x /= 10;
		}
		System.out.println();
	}
}

Heh, my BASIC was on the Apple //e, but I started in the same year as you.

Yeah, hadn't thought about that operator. I'm used to wanting the decimals, though, so it doesn't really spring to mind.

As for the rest... I'm aware. Would have been even easier to convert to a string and use string functions to pull individual characters.

But we were not allowed to use any of that. Only basic algebra.

 

[EmperorFool]

But we were not allowed to use any of that. Only basic algebra.

No looping? Wow, they really are starting out at the beginning. I suppose the classes are designed so you can start with Java or C++ without knowing anything about coding. This is where I'd normally rail against the whole "pack everyone into cookie-cutter classes instead of guiding self-organizing groups of students in their own learning" educational system we have, but I'll let it slide today.

 

[Afforess]

No looping? Wow, they really are starting out at the beginning. I suppose the classes are designed so you can start with Java or C++ without knowing anything about coding. This is where I'd normally rail against the whole "pack everyone into cookie-cutter classes instead of guiding self-organizing groups of students in their own learning" educational system we have, but I'll let it slide today.

No, please do rail. I look at the other students in my CS classes, and most of them are totally lost, or don't understand what they are coding. Our future....

 

[EmperorFool]

I was in the same boat, and the only thing that kept me sane was helping out in lab class. I'd go in, finish the assignment in an hour, and then help the others for a couple hours. It's hard not to do the assignment for them, but I learned a lot by looking at their failed attempts and having to explain what I knew in words they could understand. It deepened my understanding, even though it was sometimes painful.

In my earlier CS classes I approached the professors during their office hours and told them flat out that I already knew most of the material they were teaching, just needed the particular language, and negotiated different assignments. Most would do something to help while there were some that stuck to "the rules."

Sometimes you get lucky, too. I took a math class one quarter but was swamped with work and other classes so I didn't do any of the homework assignments which the teacher had decided to make 25% of the grade. After the final I told her, "I clearly aced the final, and I got A's on the two midterms. I want an A in the class." She explained the grading system again and said she wouldn't budge. I told her in no uncertain terms what I thought of that policy, and for a minute thought she was going to fail me for it out of spite, but instead she said, "The reason I assign homework is not so you learn the material but so you practice it to make it second nature. <sarcasm>Do these two problems in five minutes and I'll give you the A.</sarcasm>" Two minutes later I walked away with my A and a grin.

 

[Valkrionn]

No looping? Wow, they really are starting out at the beginning. I suppose the classes are designed so you can start with Java or C++ without knowing anything about coding. This is where I'd normally rail against the whole "pack everyone into cookie-cutter classes instead of guiding self-organizing groups of students in their own learning" educational system we have, but I'll let it slide today.

Pretty much. I'd far rather teach myself, honestly, but that doesn't exactly contribute towards my degree.

I'd be moving ahead on my own, but have a rather packed semester atm... In class from 9:30 to 8:20 two days a week, then hours of homework and job searching... yeah, I can let Java be the easy class that I don't have to pay attention to.

No, please do rail. I look at the other students in my CS classes, and most of them are totally lost, or don't understand what they are coding. Our future....

Seriously. Like I said, that 'contest' the professor had was horribly simple. Took 2 minutes, most of which was spent just typing it. I knew HOW to do it immediately.

Noone else in the class did. Even after she mentioned Modulo. Had to be explained, and even then... They guy in second happened to be sitting next to me.

I was in the same boat, and the only thing that kept me sane was helping out in lab class. I'd go in, finish the assignment in an hour, and then help the others for a couple hours. It's hard not to do the assignment for them, but I learned a lot by looking at their failed attempts and having to explain what I knew in words they could understand. It deepened my understanding, even though it was sometimes painful.

In my earlier CS classes I approached the professors during their office hours and told them flat out that I already knew most of the material they were teaching, just needed the particular language, and negotiated different assignments. Most would do something to help while there were some that stuck to "the rules."

Sometimes you get lucky, too. I took a math class one quarter but was swamped with work and other classes so I didn't do any of the homework assignments which the teacher had decided to make 25% of the grade. After the final I told her, "I clearly aced the final, and I got A's on the two midterms. I want an A in the class." She explained the grading system again and said she wouldn't budge. I told her in no uncertain terms what I thought of that policy, and for a minute thought she was going to fail me for it out of spite, but instead she said, "The reason I assign homework is not so you learn the material but so you practice it to make it second nature. <sarcasm>Do these two problems in five minutes and I'll give you the A.</sarcasm>" Two minutes later I walked away with my A and a grin.

I tend to have issues explaining exactly how to do something, so more often than not I just work through a related example for them. Still don't do their work, but usually they catch on.

Do the same in math, honestly... I tend to neglect the homework, and then come in first in the class on tests and the finals.

 

[EmperorFool]

I recall reading an essay talking about the relative production levels of various professions. A master carpenter can be two to three times as productive as an apprentice whereas an expert software engineer can be ten to a hundred times as productive as a junior programmer. The relative strength of the body can vary a bit, but two minds can be worlds apart in capability.

Plus I found that most CS students--which surprised me to no end--truly weren't interested in programming. They didn't have any passion for it; it was a means to an end. I code all day at work, but what do I do with my free time? I code and read about coding because I love doing it. I was pleased as punch to find that companies would pay handsomely for me to do as an adult what I did to have fun as a child.

I wish everyone could be so lucky.

 

[EmperorFool]

From the manual:

Automatic Mod Updates
The game will automatically check for updates to any mods you
have installed which are available through the Mod Browser system.
These updates will automatically be downloaded and applied if you
have an active internet connection.