Modding the aspects of "Game Speed"
- Thread starter King Jason
- Start date
Yowsers. Vippin I wish I know how to do all the cool stuff people do on the forums. I basically changed all values to 300% of normal or divided by 3 in a few cases where necessary. I also changed the culture values to 3 x normal so cities wouldn't expand too quickly.
The only thing I didn't do is extend the number of turns for anarchy. I don't know where to do this yet.
Now I have just changed the values of techs for eras by these values:
-50%
-25%
0%
+50%
+75%
+100%
+100%
I am keeping all values still at 300% so in reality the cost of modern and future techs are actualy 6 x normal... I will let you know how it works out. Maybe someone can help me in how to list my files on the forum...
The only thing I didn't do is extend the number of turns for anarchy. I don't know where to do this yet.
Now I have just changed the values of techs for eras by these values:
-50%
-25%
0%
+50%
+75%
+100%
+100%
I am keeping all values still at 300% so in reality the cost of modern and future techs are actualy 6 x normal... I will let you know how it works out. Maybe someone can help me in how to list my files on the forum...
Adding files to the forums is fairly simple instead of doing a quick reply choose the "Go Advanced" this will load a new page for you.
With all the same things you know from "Quick Reply" how ever if you scroll down you will notice that you have a field called "Additional Options" within this field you have "Manage Attachments" simple zip or rar the file you wish to upload press on "Manage Attachments" use the browser to select the files press "Ok" and you done
With all the same things you know from "Quick Reply" how ever if you scroll down you will notice that you have a field called "Additional Options" within this field you have "Manage Attachments" simple zip or rar the file you wish to upload press on "Manage Attachments" use the browser to select the files press "Ok" and you done
BlueLikeYou
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2005
- Messages
- 53
This is a mod I would really be interested in. When I heard civ 4 would have quick, standard, and epic game speeds, I assumed the standard game would be roughly the same as previous games, with the other modes faster or slower than that. But it seems that the "epic" game is far less epic than I had hoped.
I was messing around with this a little, but it looks like some of you guys are way ahead of me (and probably have more time to work on it
). Has anybody created a mod they are really happy with yet?
I was messing around with this a little, but it looks like some of you guys are way ahead of me (and probably have more time to work on it
). Has anybody created a mod they are really happy with yet?
Stormbringer
The Brick and The Rose
I am pretty happy with what I have done for it. I have the slower tech+balance mod from the mod section, because I like all the changes made there. Then I increased the technology modifier to 300 and the growth modifier to 220. That led to a very long, well paced game, but I constantly ran out of money since most of my cities were done with all the buildings and were building units I could not support. To fix that I increased the commerce that improvements and resources generate, which effectively almost doubled the amount of cash/science that I had. Testing that now, not sure if I will have to raise the cost or the tech modifier again to compensate.
I just finished a playtest of my own epic version of the game. It came out to (roughly) about four hundred turns per era on a huge map, 12 civs. Three made it to the nuclear age (myself, the Aztecs, and the Mongolians) before I wiped them all off the map. Early game I expanded to 12 cities before maintenance ground expansion to a halt; later on I expanded to 21 cities, then to 26 before the final showdown. I changed *a lot* of things, and right now I'm revamping the whole system yet again based on what I experienced in the playtest.
Some things I noticed in this game, and in a few abortive earlier attempts that were close to what I have now:
- some civs do horribly in the long game, mainly because they build so many units they have no left over production for anything else. The Japanese did this consistently, amassing huge armies of stone-age warriors that killed their economy and yet left them powerless compared to their neighbors (and thus never willing to start a war to clear out all of those warriors).
- a combination of specialists and buildings led to a overall speed-up of the game from era to era. Ancient was around 600 turns, Classical 500, Medieval 400, Renaissance 350, etc. Easy enough to tweak now that I now what the actual numbers are. Tech costs have to increase dramatically in each era in order to maintain a 500 turn/epoch average.
- long games tend to favor the human player. Also, for reasons I'm not very clear on all AIs become rather peaceful over time, although a human player is still a target if his point score isn't at least 50% higher than the next player in line.
- even on a decent system the game can and will slow down over time if there are too many units in play. I'm fixing this by upping the cost and maintenance of units, so that AIs like the Japs don't make enormous, cpu-eating armies of hundreds of units that accomplish nothing.
- it was great fun being the first person to get gunpowder (musketmen combat 20, compared to knight/12 and pikeman/8.)
However, I quickly learned that three hundred knights can pretty much overrun 150 musketmen in the space of a single turn. One turn of glory followed by the sad, sad sight of an entire army ground into the mud by a bunch of sword-wielding barbarians.
The research point totals are by era, since you could have more or less techs, and almost certainly have a different tech tree than I do. The first number is what I used for the playtest, the second number I'm going to use after the current revamp. This is with a research setting of 100% in GameSpeedInfo:
- Ancient: 25000 (35000)
- Classical: 50000 (70000)
- Medieval: 100000 (140000)
- Renaissance: 250000 (280000)
- Industrial: 500000 (560000)
- Modern: 750000 (1,120,000)
If you wanted to make it 250 turns per era, you could just divide the figures by two and adjust the era-specific techs appropriately.
Max
Some things I noticed in this game, and in a few abortive earlier attempts that were close to what I have now:
- some civs do horribly in the long game, mainly because they build so many units they have no left over production for anything else. The Japanese did this consistently, amassing huge armies of stone-age warriors that killed their economy and yet left them powerless compared to their neighbors (and thus never willing to start a war to clear out all of those warriors).
- a combination of specialists and buildings led to a overall speed-up of the game from era to era. Ancient was around 600 turns, Classical 500, Medieval 400, Renaissance 350, etc. Easy enough to tweak now that I now what the actual numbers are. Tech costs have to increase dramatically in each era in order to maintain a 500 turn/epoch average.
- long games tend to favor the human player. Also, for reasons I'm not very clear on all AIs become rather peaceful over time, although a human player is still a target if his point score isn't at least 50% higher than the next player in line.
- even on a decent system the game can and will slow down over time if there are too many units in play. I'm fixing this by upping the cost and maintenance of units, so that AIs like the Japs don't make enormous, cpu-eating armies of hundreds of units that accomplish nothing.
- it was great fun being the first person to get gunpowder (musketmen combat 20, compared to knight/12 and pikeman/8.)
However, I quickly learned that three hundred knights can pretty much overrun 150 musketmen in the space of a single turn. One turn of glory followed by the sad, sad sight of an entire army ground into the mud by a bunch of sword-wielding barbarians.The research point totals are by era, since you could have more or less techs, and almost certainly have a different tech tree than I do. The first number is what I used for the playtest, the second number I'm going to use after the current revamp. This is with a research setting of 100% in GameSpeedInfo:
- Ancient: 25000 (35000)
- Classical: 50000 (70000)
- Medieval: 100000 (140000)
- Renaissance: 250000 (280000)
- Industrial: 500000 (560000)
- Modern: 750000 (1,120,000)
If you wanted to make it 250 turns per era, you could just divide the figures by two and adjust the era-specific techs appropriately.
Max
ritterpa said:
I reset <iTargetNumCities> from 6 to 15 in CIV4WorldInfo.xml. While I'm not entirely sure, I *think* this affects maintenance by making it less severe until 15 cities are hit. I did this because I only play on huge maps, and because I wanted a lot of cities to test my various changes on right from the get-go.
The tech point numbers aren't important as actual numbers, but as ratios from age to age. Tech speeds up due to a variety of factors, so in order to keep the same number of turns per era (to play period-based gaming) you need to essentially double the research points every era in order to keep the game from speeding up. Changing GameSpeedInfo alone won't do the trick.
So the ratio is essentially 1/2/4/8/16/32. This will change if you change the techs that produce cash, or expand/contract the number of cities you can have in the early game before maintenance becomes ovewhelming (doesn't matter after Market, in any event), and so forth. Reduce the cities, for example, and you'll have to lower Ancient (e.g., 0.5), and possibly Classical, after which tech will allow you to put down as many cities as you want anyway. I wanted a smooth progression so I removed the artificial early hard limit of a handful of cities for testing, but decided I actually liked the game better this way and kept it.
Max
Karloch
Chieftain
Hi Guys,
What a great topic, I'm glad to see I'm not alone thinking the epic speed lacks some "epicity"
Does someone has a playtested .xml which seems to be well-balanced? The last posts indicated some more playtesting, maybe somthing new has happened since that time? If it could be posted, that would be great !
Keep up the good work !
What a great topic, I'm glad to see I'm not alone thinking the epic speed lacks some "epicity"
Does someone has a playtested .xml which seems to be well-balanced? The last posts indicated some more playtesting, maybe somthing new has happened since that time? If it could be posted, that would be great !
Keep up the good work !
Adam7Eight
Emperor
Karloch said:
I'm currently working on one as well. Unfortunately, this is the kind of mod that's going to take a lot of time to perfect. It seems I'll start a game, get to a particular era or particular tech (usually industrial or modern ages) then realize something else needs to be tweaked just a bit. I'm happy with what I have so far, but not happy enough to distribute it to everyone else (yet).
I'm using a combination of Doskei's tech cost increases and some other people's ideas, along with my own, and so far I've found a game that is playable for me. But that's the other part of this equation. Someone's style and personal preference might not be good for somebody else, with which it relates to balancing and other issues. IMO, this is definately not going to be the type of mod that everyone is going to agree on.
I've done so much more than editing game speed... including disabling free techs by GP (except Great Scientists), goody huts, and tech trading, which play a major role in the overall outcome. Other players are probably going to want those options, as I do not. I've also edited turns, not so they match up realistically to history, but just so my game ends at the year 2100, and by that time I'm reasearching future technologies. Again, other people might want to see musketmen in the 1700's, whereas I don't care if I see them in the 1600's or 1800's. Historical accuracy is not important to me, but being able to reasearch a future tech before the game ends on time is.
If someone is interested in trying out what I have they are more than welcome to. Just ask. But it comes with a disclaimer: It's just personal preference.
Well, I figure I'll try to make my first post on these forums a constructive one.
I've been crunching my own numbers in an attempt to make a longer game, and though I haven't worked it all out to my satisfaction yet, I'm going to explain what I've done so far. Hopefully the information will be useful enough that we can all make some progress in achieving a truly epic game speed. I've been testing on Noble difficulty since that's the one where you're even with the AI on handicaps.
Here's my game plan:
1 - Increase the overall number of turns to at least double the epic turns.
2 - Adjust the science rate accordingly so that over the YEARS the research rates line up with the other game speeds, but there are considerably more TURNS between technologies.
3 - Increase the growth, building, training, etc rates enough to account for the large amount of extra turns, but for the most part allow production to proceed at a faster rate than science. This is, however, NOT easy, as ALL these rates have some impact on science.
4 - Reduce the science bonuses for buildings (library, university, etc) and great people to prevent a civ from being able to gain a dramatic tech advantage (I'm talking tanks vs warriors here... knights vs archers is fine by me!). Plus it's kind of sad how incredibly poorly a warlike civ can do in the tech race with even the default settings.
5 - Change the AI settings as needed to make them better adapt to the long game speed. Maxpublic already proved they don't scale well.
Here are my numbers for overall game speed:
The rate column is turns/years, the factor is old rate/new rate, and the %turns is the years/total years. Using those numbers, I get a 231.5% increase in the total number of turns (650 -> 1505) and maintain about the same period of years in each era. Most of the modifiers in Civ4GameSpeedInfo.xml are set to 150% in epic, so 150 * 2.315 is approximately 350. Therefore, I should set my science rate to 350 to have the science rate compensate for the increase in turns. The remaining values I've been tweaking to keep the rest of the game from progressing 2.3 times slower. Here's my speed xml:
I haven't thought of a good name for my new game speed, so for now the text value is "absurd." It's getting a little late and I'm working in the morning, so I'll post my era values later. Hope this stimulates some constructive conversation on the topic at hand.
I've been crunching my own numbers in an attempt to make a longer game, and though I haven't worked it all out to my satisfaction yet, I'm going to explain what I've done so far. Hopefully the information will be useful enough that we can all make some progress in achieving a truly epic game speed. I've been testing on Noble difficulty since that's the one where you're even with the AI on handicaps.
Here's my game plan:
1 - Increase the overall number of turns to at least double the epic turns.
2 - Adjust the science rate accordingly so that over the YEARS the research rates line up with the other game speeds, but there are considerably more TURNS between technologies.
3 - Increase the growth, building, training, etc rates enough to account for the large amount of extra turns, but for the most part allow production to proceed at a faster rate than science. This is, however, NOT easy, as ALL these rates have some impact on science.
4 - Reduce the science bonuses for buildings (library, university, etc) and great people to prevent a civ from being able to gain a dramatic tech advantage (I'm talking tanks vs warriors here... knights vs archers is fine by me!). Plus it's kind of sad how incredibly poorly a warlike civ can do in the tech race with even the default settings.
5 - Change the AI settings as needed to make them better adapt to the long game speed. Maxpublic already proved they don't scale well.
Here are my numbers for overall game speed:
Code:
Era increment turns years end rate factor %turns
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ancient 40 50 2000 2000BC 0.025 7.692
new Ancient 10 200 2000 2000BC 0.1 4 13.29
Classical 25 40 1000 1000BC 0.04 6.154
new Classical 8 125 1000 1000BC 0.125 3.125 8.306
Medieval 20 70 1400 400AD 0.05 10.77
new Medieval 5 280 1400 400AD 0.2 4 18.6
Renaissance 10 60 600 1000AD 0.1 9.23
new Renaissance 4 200 800 1200AD 0.25 2.5 13.29
Industrial 5 130 750 1750AD 0.1733 20
new Industrial 2 300 600 1800AD 0.5 2.885 19.93
Modern 2 100 200 1950AD 0.5 15.38
new Modern 1 200 200 2000AD 1 2 13.29
Future 1 200 200 2150AD 1 30.77
new Future 1 200 200 2200AD 1 1 13.29The rate column is turns/years, the factor is old rate/new rate, and the %turns is the years/total years. Using those numbers, I get a 231.5% increase in the total number of turns (650 -> 1505) and maintain about the same period of years in each era. Most of the modifiers in Civ4GameSpeedInfo.xml are set to 150% in epic, so 150 * 2.315 is approximately 350. Therefore, I should set my science rate to 350 to have the science rate compensate for the increase in turns. The remaining values I've been tweaking to keep the rest of the game from progressing 2.3 times slower. Here's my speed xml:
Code:
<GameSpeedInfo>
<Type>GAMESPEED_BUEY_CUSTOM</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_BUEY_CUSTOM</Description>
<Help>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_BUEY_CUSTOM_HELP</Help>
<iGrowthPercent>300</iGrowthPercent>
<iTrainPercent>225</iTrainPercent>
<iConstructPercent>225</iConstructPercent>
<iCreatePercent>225</iCreatePercent>
<iResearchPercent>350</iResearchPercent>
<iBuildPercent>225</iBuildPercent>
<iImprovementPercent>250</iImprovementPercent>
<iGreatPeoplePercent>250</iGreatPeoplePercent>
<iCulturePercent>250</iCulturePercent>
<iAnarchyPercent>250</iAnarchyPercent>
<iBarbPercent>350</iBarbPercent>
<iFeatureProductionPercent>200</iFeatureProductionPercent>
<iUnitDiscoverPercent>250</iUnitDiscoverPercent>
<iUnitHurryPercent>250</iUnitHurryPercent>
<iUnitTradePercent>250</iUnitTradePercent>
<iUnitGreatWorkPercent>250</iUnitGreatWorkPercent>
<iGoldenAgePercent>250</iGoldenAgePercent>
<iHurryPercent>25</iHurryPercent>
<iHurryConscriptAngerPercent>250</iHurryConscriptAngerPercent>
<iInflationPercent>3</iInflationPercent>
<iInflationOffset>-375</iInflationOffset>
<GameTurnInfos>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>10</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>200</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>10</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>100</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>5</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>280</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>4</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>200</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>2</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>300</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>1</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>200</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>1</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>200</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
</GameTurnInfos>
</GameSpeedInfo>I haven't thought of a good name for my new game speed, so for now the text value is "absurd." It's getting a little late and I'm working in the morning, so I'll post my era values later. Hope this stimulates some constructive conversation on the topic at hand.
jpinard
Martian
buey - I like your ideas. Can you package that into a mod? After I get a few more normal games under my belt, I'd like to give yours a try.
I've been thinking on this like crazy for about 7 hours over 2 days, filled 2.5 big papers with small handwritten tables + playing the game to test and I got it!!!
Given the number of years must be 6050, and we're trying to increase the number of turns to exceed the Epic period, we face this problem: the minimum turn length is one year
To make this easy, let's take 2 critical points: Founding of Christianity just after 0 CE, and invention of the tank just after 1900 CE (for simplicity). I found out that Christianity is discovered after about 250 turns, and the tank about 750 turns, given a base of ~1000 turns (which I was trying to engineer)
Adjusting xianity to be found ~0 CE is easy no matter how long the game is...
NOW! No matter how lengthy we make this game, the tanks should be invented and have 150 more turns left to be played right? Because the minimum length is 1 year...
SO, if you try to make a lengthy game, normally lowering the power of research, you'd have this atrocious outcome: what was to be researched in 150 years in the Epic mode, would be researched in 150+ years, given the slower tech rate! This results in so many future technologies missed if the game ends at 2050
It is impossible to have a balanced game which exceeds perhaps even the NORMAL mode... you'd be forced to give up some late techs or simply screw the timings, have tanks at 1800 CE and/or Christianity found by 200 BC
I personally made an acceptable 900-turn model, had the research set to 225, this way I think (coz I haven't tested it yet) Christianity and tanks should be ok, but I'll spend the last 150 years with a research rate of 225, meaning I'll miss about 1/3 of the future technologies designed to end by 2050, ASSUMING I would've gotten them all in the Epic mode, which I even doubt.
Of course more details could be done at this if you took more points than my mere 2, providing more details (assuming you'd survive to post it here!)
Solutions?
Either to spam 2k with emails to mod xml files so it'd accept fractions, or,
Have some way of adjusting different research rates to each era, or,
End the game after 2050
After reading until p.9 in this thread, the per-era research rate seems impossible. I think it's only designed for starting in late eras. Also I realized we can use months/seasons instead of years, but apparently you MUST enter world builder (to create a WBS file) and THEN edit it... stupid situation coz you'll have to have a friend click "save wbs" for you so the map isn't revealed before you can play your scenario
Given the number of years must be 6050, and we're trying to increase the number of turns to exceed the Epic period, we face this problem: the minimum turn length is one year
To make this easy, let's take 2 critical points: Founding of Christianity just after 0 CE, and invention of the tank just after 1900 CE (for simplicity). I found out that Christianity is discovered after about 250 turns, and the tank about 750 turns, given a base of ~1000 turns (which I was trying to engineer)
Adjusting xianity to be found ~0 CE is easy no matter how long the game is...
NOW! No matter how lengthy we make this game, the tanks should be invented and have 150 more turns left to be played right? Because the minimum length is 1 year...
SO, if you try to make a lengthy game, normally lowering the power of research, you'd have this atrocious outcome: what was to be researched in 150 years in the Epic mode, would be researched in 150+ years, given the slower tech rate! This results in so many future technologies missed if the game ends at 2050
It is impossible to have a balanced game which exceeds perhaps even the NORMAL mode... you'd be forced to give up some late techs or simply screw the timings, have tanks at 1800 CE and/or Christianity found by 200 BC
I personally made an acceptable 900-turn model, had the research set to 225, this way I think (coz I haven't tested it yet) Christianity and tanks should be ok, but I'll spend the last 150 years with a research rate of 225, meaning I'll miss about 1/3 of the future technologies designed to end by 2050, ASSUMING I would've gotten them all in the Epic mode, which I even doubt.
Of course more details could be done at this if you took more points than my mere 2, providing more details (assuming you'd survive to post it here!)
Solutions?
Either to spam 2k with emails to mod xml files so it'd accept fractions, or,
Have some way of adjusting different research rates to each era, or,
End the game after 2050
After reading until p.9 in this thread, the per-era research rate seems impossible. I think it's only designed for starting in late eras. Also I realized we can use months/seasons instead of years, but apparently you MUST enter world builder (to create a WBS file) and THEN edit it... stupid situation coz you'll have to have a friend click "save wbs" for you so the map isn't revealed before you can play your scenario
I've noticed that you can't simply change the number of turns and the amount of time it takes to reaserch to make the game longer. If you do you'll break a lot of balance issues. It's also been interesting to see how a combination of minor changes has such an impact on game speed.
For example, I changed settlers so they have a movement of 1 and they require Hunting, Argiculture and Animal Husbandry techs before you can build them. Since I had also changed it so no civilization started out with any free techs it typically takes a long time before you have that second city let alone a continent full of them. Combined with that I have removed the ability to build scouts, the only way to get them is to start with them (Warlord or easier) or find them in a goody hut. Without scouts it can be extremely difficult to explore a large continent. On top of both of those changes I have changed the goody huts themselves so they never produce settlers or workers and "weak" barbarians are no longer consider a "bad" goody so scouts can trigger hostile villagers.
Now without making any change at all to game speed not only is the early game slower but the mid game feels completely different. For me the ancient era is all about establish my first and hopefully second city and grabbing and resources I may need as well. Once in the classical era I spend most of my time fending off waves of raging barbarians while I try to fight my way out to about 4-5 cities. If I'm lucky, by the time I hit the midevil era I have explored my starting continent and eliminated the barbarians, most of the time I have simply pushed the barbarians back to a few (now large) cities and it is simply a matter of finishing them off so I can have my own continent.
From this point all I've had to do is modify the tech costs to achieve the desired pace, the number of turns to bring the year counter in sync with the game and a few other game speed values such as culture rates, GP rates and wonder construction speed. The current result is an ancient era that progresses fairly quickly, much like the original game's "normal" speed (minus the rapid expansion), and subsequent eras that are progressively slower as you have more to do. Since a lot of other values, such as unit movement speeds, are unchanged it has the abstract effect of slowing down conquests early in the game while at the same time making late wars encompass the entire world.
So what's my point? I don't know, after a number of attempts of my own I would suggest saving game speed changes for last, ignore the year display and just get the right "feel" first. Once I wiped the slate clean and did that myself I was able to do a lot more with the game.
For example, I changed settlers so they have a movement of 1 and they require Hunting, Argiculture and Animal Husbandry techs before you can build them. Since I had also changed it so no civilization started out with any free techs it typically takes a long time before you have that second city let alone a continent full of them. Combined with that I have removed the ability to build scouts, the only way to get them is to start with them (Warlord or easier) or find them in a goody hut. Without scouts it can be extremely difficult to explore a large continent. On top of both of those changes I have changed the goody huts themselves so they never produce settlers or workers and "weak" barbarians are no longer consider a "bad" goody so scouts can trigger hostile villagers.
Now without making any change at all to game speed not only is the early game slower but the mid game feels completely different. For me the ancient era is all about establish my first and hopefully second city and grabbing and resources I may need as well. Once in the classical era I spend most of my time fending off waves of raging barbarians while I try to fight my way out to about 4-5 cities. If I'm lucky, by the time I hit the midevil era I have explored my starting continent and eliminated the barbarians, most of the time I have simply pushed the barbarians back to a few (now large) cities and it is simply a matter of finishing them off so I can have my own continent.
From this point all I've had to do is modify the tech costs to achieve the desired pace, the number of turns to bring the year counter in sync with the game and a few other game speed values such as culture rates, GP rates and wonder construction speed. The current result is an ancient era that progresses fairly quickly, much like the original game's "normal" speed (minus the rapid expansion), and subsequent eras that are progressively slower as you have more to do. Since a lot of other values, such as unit movement speeds, are unchanged it has the abstract effect of slowing down conquests early in the game while at the same time making late wars encompass the entire world.
So what's my point? I don't know, after a number of attempts of my own I would suggest saving game speed changes for last, ignore the year display and just get the right "feel" first. Once I wiped the slate clean and did that myself I was able to do a lot more with the game.
I say: if the Normal speed mode discovers techs in time, just quadriple the #of turns in each increment, make 1 turn = 1 season (which I'm trying to figure a neat way to do), cut the growth rate to quarter as well
Of course, you'd still be slightly more advanced because libraries and universities are built in a period of less YEARS, but that should be solved with slowering the tech rate with, say, 5-10%
Any reason this shouldn't work perfectly? 1/4 population = 1/4 production & 1/4 units training & 1/4 gold income... looks good to me o.o
The only problem would be great people, I don't want to decrease their rate but rather decrease the amount of beakers they provide when consumed for a tech discovery, but I can't find that line in xml
Of course, you'd still be slightly more advanced because libraries and universities are built in a period of less YEARS, but that should be solved with slowering the tech rate with, say, 5-10%
Any reason this shouldn't work perfectly? 1/4 population = 1/4 production & 1/4 units training & 1/4 gold income... looks good to me o.o
The only problem would be great people, I don't want to decrease their rate but rather decrease the amount of beakers they provide when consumed for a tech discovery, but I can't find that line in xml
King Jason, on your first post you said:
<iUnitHurryPercent></iUnitHurryPercent> The rate at which a unit is rushed (by gold and pop.)
But it's surroudned by great people's actions... so can't it be the great engineer's "hurry production" factor? (ibasehurry in the units file)
<iUnitHurryPercent></iUnitHurryPercent> The rate at which a unit is rushed (by gold and pop.)
But it's surroudned by great people's actions... so can't it be the great engineer's "hurry production" factor? (ibasehurry in the units file)
Fachy said:I've been thinking on this like crazy for about 7 hours over 2 days, filled 2.5 big papers with small handwritten tables + playing the game to test and I got it!!!
Given the number of years must be 6050, and we're trying to increase the number of turns to exceed the Epic period, we face this problem: the minimum turn length is one year
To make this easy, let's take 2 critical points: Founding of Christianity just after 0 CE, and invention of the tank just after 1900 CE (for simplicity). I found out that Christianity is discovered after about 250 turns, and the tank about 750 turns, given a base of ~1000 turns (which I was trying to engineer)
Adjusting xianity to be found ~0 CE is easy no matter how long the game is...
NOW! No matter how lengthy we make this game, the tanks should be invented and have 150 more turns left to be played right? Because the minimum length is 1 year...
SO, if you try to make a lengthy game, normally lowering the power of research, you'd have this atrocious outcome: what was to be researched in 150 years in the Epic mode, would be researched in 150+ years, given the slower tech rate! This results in so many future technologies missed if the game ends at 2050
It is impossible to have a balanced game which exceeds perhaps even the NORMAL mode... you'd be forced to give up some late techs or simply screw the timings, have tanks at 1800 CE and/or Christianity found by 200 BC
I personally made an acceptable 900-turn model, had the research set to 225, this way I think (coz I haven't tested it yet) Christianity and tanks should be ok, but I'll spend the last 150 years with a research rate of 225, meaning I'll miss about 1/3 of the future technologies designed to end by 2050, ASSUMING I would've gotten them all in the Epic mode, which I even doubt.
Of course more details could be done at this if you took more points than my mere 2, providing more details (assuming you'd survive to post it here!)
Solutions?
Either to spam 2k with emails to mod xml files so it'd accept fractions, or,
Have some way of adjusting different research rates to each era, or,
End the game after 2050
After reading until p.9 in this thread, the per-era research rate seems impossible. I think it's only designed for starting in late eras. Also I realized we can use months/seasons instead of years, but apparently you MUST enter world builder (to create a WBS file) and THEN edit it... stupid situation coz you'll have to have a friend click "save wbs" for you so the map isn't revealed before you can play your scenario
I kind of understand your argument. But Chrisianity DOESN'T have to be found in 0 AD and tanks DON'T have to be found in 1900AD. I've had games on normal gamespeeds where Christianity was found a lot earlier or later than 0AD and tanks came earlier or later as well. CIV is an open ended game, it doesnt have to follow real life exactly.
